[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Still haven't seen one in the wild yet either. Does anybody care about these cars except for auto journalists and self promoting Youtube shitheads?

I have only seen 1, one time, so far. I really like it.

Unless you want a launch edition, you can already find models advertised for thousands below MSRP for a couple of months now.

I'm still not sure I like it enough to actually go spend $50k+ on one though.


It's getting very hard for me to justify such an expensive car, especially from brand that can't seem to build reliable cars the last 15 years, and because I drive so little.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I have only seen 1, one time, so far. I really like it.

Unless you want a launch edition, you can already find models advertised for thousands below MSRP for a couple of months now.

I'm still not sure I like it enough to actually go spend $50k+ on one though.


It's getting very hard for me to justify such an expensive car, especially from brand that can't seem to build reliable cars the last 15 years, and because I drive so little.

That's the thing... $50k. It's cool, I kinda like it, but not enough to drop $50k on one. Too many options in the $50k range. I think they should of made it less expensive, but then since it's mostly BMW I'm sure BMW would take issue if it was too cheap.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

That's the thing... $50k. It's cool, I kinda like it, but not enough to drop $50k on one. Too many options in the $50k range. I think they should of made it less expensive, but then since it's mostly BMW I'm sure BMW would take issue if it was too cheap.

Just shows you how much BMW is ripping us off while also building things with horrendous reliability that are crazy expensive to fix.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Just shows you how much BMW is ripping us off while also building things with horrendous reliability that are crazy expensive to fix.

Thats why I always buy them used for 1/2 the price, not worth taking the hit... DIY some of the maint and take to an indy for stuff out of your league is the key to an affordable BMW...

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Just shows you how much BMW is ripping us off while also building things with horrendous reliability that are crazy expensive to fix.

Honestly there hasn't been a BMW I liked since my 2006 Z4MR. I had an E92 that was at the dealer more than at my house. At some point we also owned an F30 and an F10 it was alright but pretty much lost all interest in BMW after that.

Maybe I'm just getting old, but I remember before if you wanted a nice looking car with a nice interior you basically had to get a German car. Did VW for a while then moved to BMW. However now days I really think the competition is much fiercer.

[hybris]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

Just shows you how much BMW is ripping us off while also building things with horrendous reliability that are crazy expensive to fix.

I'm starting to wonder whether they send all the lemons to the US or something. I'm on my third BMW and never had any major problems, also never been worried about it breaking down - while you guys seem like you can't drive further than your local grocery store because you fear the car will fall apart.

BMW is not rated as any worse than other major brands here in Europe, and overall customer satisfaction is very high.


If you buy an expensive car second hand and expect it to be as cheap to own as a brand new Huyndai with a list price similar to what you bought your BMW second hand, then I understand you may be disappointed - otherwise I'm not sure what you're going on about.

[Gamb1t]

I like the new Zupra when I saw one on the road a few months ago. Sure wouldn't mind having one in my garage. That said, it will be a dilemma when it's time for service. Should I bring it to Toyota or BMW? With the former, it is all warranted, but it will be worked by folks who are used to RAV4s and Corollas.

[clee1982]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

I like the new Zupra when I saw one on the road a few months ago. Sure wouldn't mind having one in my garage. That said, it will be a dilemma when it's time for service. Should I bring it to Toyota or BMW? With the former, it is all warranted, but it will be worked by folks who are used to RAV4s and Corollas.

Pretty sure you can't take to BMW unless it's an independent BMW shop...

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by Gamb1t

I like the new Zupra when I saw one on the road a few months ago. Sure wouldn't mind having one in my garage. That said, it will be a dilemma when it's time for service. Should I bring it to Toyota or BMW? With the former, it is all warranted, but it will be worked by folks who are used to RAV4s and Corollas.

BMWs aren't that hard to work on, they just need to spend a few hours training the technicians to do oil changes and basic maintenance. For bigger jobs like warrantied engine replacements they will bring in BMW support folks to help as needed and it's covered by your warranty.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

BMWs aren't that hard to work on, they just need to spend a few hours training the technicians to do oil changes and basic maintenance. For bigger jobs like warrantied engine replacements they will bring in BMW support folks to help as needed and it's covered by your warranty.

Yeah, but folks used to work on corollas and rav4s will need an attitude adjustment to actually pay attention to what they are doing.

[fastboatster]

Originally Posted by hybris

I'm starting to wonder whether they send all the lemons to the US or something. I'm on my third BMW and never had any major problems, also never been worried about it breaking down - while you guys seem like you can't drive further than your local grocery store because you fear the car will fall apart.

BMW is not rated as any worse than other major brands here in Europe, and overall customer satisfaction is very high.


If you buy an expensive car second hand and expect it to be as cheap to own as a brand new Huyndai with a list price similar to what you bought your BMW second hand, then I understand you may be disappointed - otherwise I'm not sure what you're going on about.

Yeah, bmws are fine for the most part, it's just in the US not too many people can work on them. Even those who can't realky work on them charge a lot of money for it.

[bimmer456]

Originally Posted by hybris

I'm starting to wonder whether they send all the lemons to the US or something. I'm on my third BMW and never had any major problems, also never been worried about it breaking down - while you guys seem like you can't drive further than your local grocery store because you fear the car will fall apart.

BMW is not rated as any worse than other major brands here in Europe, and overall customer satisfaction is very high.


If you buy an expensive car second hand and expect it to be as cheap to own as a brand new Huyndai with a list price similar to what you bought your BMW second hand, then I understand you may be disappointed - otherwise I'm not sure what you're going on about.

Yes you have to factor in maintenance cost but it's not going to be a whole lot more expensive, the cost savings of buying used more than covers the slightly higher cost of maintenance most of the time.

[hybris]

Originally Posted by bimmer456

Yes you have to factor in maintenance cost but it's not going to be a whole lot more expensive, the cost savings of buying used more than covers the slightly higher cost of maintenance most of the time.

My point wasn't that it's a bad idea to buy second hand.

[supra93]

October Sales

Supra
US: 487
Canada: 26

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...er-2019-sales/

https://media.toyota.ca/releases/toy...ovember-record

Z4
US: 265

http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?id=3528&mid=

[spiceyxi]

Originally Posted by supra93

October Sales

Supra
US: 487
Canada: 26

https://pressroom.toyota.com/toyota-...er-2019-sales/

https://media.toyota.ca/releases/toy...ovember-record

Z4
US: 265

http://www.bmwusanews.com/newsrelease.do?id=3528&mid=

Looks like 2,480ish Supras YTD and ~1,263 Supras on dealers lots. So, some 1200 probably sold to actual customers.

Based on what I saw last month it seems like 100ish Supras got actually sold in November.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by spiceyxi

Looks like 2,480ish Supras YTD and ~1,263 Supras on dealers lots. So, some 1200 probably sold to actual customers.

Based on what I saw last month it seems like 100ish Supras got actually sold in November.

Does anyone remember, or did they even state sales goals? IE, it will take X number of cars sold per month/year to = success.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by hybris

I'm starting to wonder whether they send all the lemons to the US or something. I'm on my third BMW and never had any major problems, also never been worried about it breaking down - while you guys seem like you can't drive further than your local grocery store because you fear the car will fall apart.

BMW is not rated as any worse than other major brands here in Europe, and overall customer satisfaction is very high.

That's because europeans have a FAR higher tolerance for reliability issues. most european cars are absolute garbage in terms of reliability and cost of repairs.

The best one for me is the Golf which is regarded as rock solid in europe but seen as questionable at best here.

I say all this as an owner of Alfas, BMWs and a Saab.

[fastboatster]

I’d say that service schedules and habits are different as well.

[hybris]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

That's because europeans have a FAR higher tolerance for reliability issues. most european cars are absolute garbage in terms of reliability and cost of repairs.

The best one for me is the Golf which is regarded as rock solid in europe but seen as questionable at best here.

I say all this as an owner of Alfas, BMWs and a Saab.

Well, Alfa and Saab is actually the least reliable ones, so you weren't that lucky with your pick.

Apart from that it's an interesting comment, we say the same about american brands. So probably a bit of bias involved. But objectively , especially build quality is way worse in american brands compared to european (no, I'm not talking just about Tesla).

The major german brands are generally reliable (BMW, Mercedes, VW, Porsche, Audi). The last decade or so, Skoda, Opel and even Renault and Peugeot (the last two used to struggle) are quite good. Volvo is also good.

Saab is bankrupt..and Alfa is italian - those guys struggle to build anything reliable, but iusually quite sexy (Lamborghini, Ferrari, Pagani)

[Alfisti]

BMW, Audi and Mercedes are not reliable, at all. Almost no one buys used if they can afford it, they are notorious for problems and expensive problems.

Domestics are regraded as junk too, but the Japanese have it all over both domestics and euromobiles. North Americans also do far, far mor emiles than europenas.

[Grip Addict]

Bunch of Supra's from SEMA:

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by hybris

Apart from that it's an interesting comment, we say the same about american brands. So probably a bit of bias involved. But objectively , especially build quality is way worse in american brands compared to european (no, I'm not talking just about Tesla).

Ironic, because many American brands have FAR better in reliability than German brands. That old myth that American cars suck and have poor reliability is bias on your part. Now if you don't like American cars and they suck for other reasons, that's fine, but that's not what we are talking about here.