[Jim23k]

I have a set of 18” square 405m’s with Pirelli Sottozero W240 which are reaching end of life and I’m weighing up my options.

According to RealOEM there are 2 winter options, the Pirelli’s or the Continental TS830P which I don’t think are in production any more…

I want to keep runflats.

When it comes to star marked tyres, presumably this only applies for a specific model? E.g. there are star marked Sottozero 3 but I think these are for the G20?

The W240’s have generally been good, but I’ve noticed the back end can be very skittish, sometimes properly stepping out just coming off roundabouts at steady speeds with gentle throttle application. I noticed the same thing with my E91 winters too so I don’t know if this is characteristic of winter tyres or if the ESP just gets it wrong sometimes!

I noticed Michelin have released the CrossClimate 2 ZP runflat which I thought could be more suitable for the UK, particularly on milder days but they are not star marked, but since it’s not x-drive I’m not sure how important that is…

Surely 12+ years of tyre advancement can offset the benefits of star marked tyres for the F30?

Thoughts?

[danb1979]

No xDrive = use whichever tyres you want

I've gone for Goodyear Vector 4Season Gen3s all round on my freshly refurbed Style 397s, in 235/45/18 size

I run 235/45/18 Goodyear Assym6s on my 405Ms for my summer wheels

One size wider than OEM (225/45); so no stretched sidewall and a much better turn in feel

Camskill are my usual go to; but Asda Tyres (delivered) were £75 cheaper this time around, worth looking

Camskill 18" RFT winters:
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m11b0s488...Runflat_inc_OE

Camskill 18" RFT all seasons:
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m141b0s92...Runflat_inc_OE

I've gone with all seasons this time round rather than dedicated winters as most driving will be normal day to day with a few road trips up to the Highlands and back

I did always run dedicated winters; but now I'm retired from traipsing around the backroads in Scotland looking for stones to lift; they're not needed as much

405M summers:


397 'winters':

[Alscoob]

https://www.camskill.co.uk/m11b0s488...Runflat_inc_OE

Conti's TS860 are * marked & RFT, maybe a good option for you.

Also being skittish will depend on temperature / tyre wear / age of tyre. Once tyres get older the compound becomes harder, couple that with less rubber on the tread to allow flexibility, a rough surface and that's what you get.

I'm no expert in the * rating but my understanding is that it is to do the the overall diameter of the tyres in the manufacturing process and the sensitivity of x-drive to a % wear front to rear.

A 225x40x18 tyre will need to be the same diameter (or as near as possible) to a 255x35x18 (standard BMW staggered set up) therefore * rated are deemed to be, where as non * rated may have a bigger manufacturing tollerence so will be out by a margin and not good for the x-drive system. However, in your case with a square set up it may seem locical that if you buy 4No. 225x40x18's of the same type/manufacturer and same age they are all likely to be the same overall diameter/circumference, so the * issue becomes irrelevant ?

I'm sure that there are many poeple who don't run * tyres with x-drive and don't have issues? Anyway if you can get the correct tyre at reasonable cost suggest that, even for peace of mind / warranty you just get * rated boots

EDIT - Dan you beat me to it !! also just note 340i if F31 not x drive, so as post above * rating not necessary.

[danb1979]

Just to add to this; the Michelins on Camskill look better priced than the others, so personally I'd go with them if they meet what you need Jim23k

I personally went for the Goodyears as Jon of Tyrereviews.co.uk really rates them and they were right up there with the Michelins on his YT videos; but I ran them on my previous Jap import E30 540i Sport saloon, late last year and through the beginning of the very cold December and they did a superb job...

They did need a good scrubbing in; did that in mid Sept 2022 in a road trip around North Wales & Anglesey and back home

[tj_g]

I’ve had Michelin Crossclimate+ (the old one) on my F31 for the last few winters.
Yes they’re not as sure footed as proper winters in heavy snow, but for 99% of the time they’re way better as there isn’t such a vast difference to the summers, like there is with winters. Best of both worlds.
I live in pretty rural South Yorkshire and we do get proper coverings of snow, with journeys over the Pennines to Manchester etc.

I’m personally not bothered about the BMW star marked or even OEM fitment, but respect that you may want to stick strictly to OEM. But yeah, no issues moving away, so long as the sizes are OK.

[tj_g]

Which brings be to a question I’ve been meaning to ask…

I’ve got my eyes on a set of 397’s fitted with 245/45/18 (square).

Any thoughts or experience on whether these will run too wide? I’ve checked and 245 is OK for 8J, but I’m wondering about the inner clearance against the damper/spring seat at the front.

danb1979 - do you run spacers with your 397’s?

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by tj_g

Which brings be to a question I’ve been meaning to ask…

I’ve got my eyes on a set of 397’s fitted with 245/45/18 (square).

Any thoughts or experience on whether these will run too wide? I’ve checked and 245 is OK for 8J, but I’m wondering about the inner clearance against the damper/spring seat at the front.

danb1979 - do you run spacers with your 397’s?

Nope no spacers; ET34 all round bags of room and they clear the 370/345mm brakes with ease too

I run 235s and there's no issues, but why run 245s, that's one size up again for an 8" wide wheel; 235 is about the idea that should be fitted IIRC, 245s will give you more sidewall flex (experienced that myself, makes for a weird drive TBH)

The wheels on mine don't sit flush to the arches, so 10-12mm spacers would work easy enough I reckon (unless you're silly low)

The chunkier tyres really fill the wheel/arch gap out well too

Can tell the 397s are heavier though, can feel it in the steering compared to my 405Ms

I'll soon get used to it

[Ennoch]

Like you I won't use non-RFT winters so here are a few cents;

• RFT winters just aren't as good as non-RFT when properly cold and slick as the sidewalls are stiffer. However, they give better braking in normal conditions due to those stiffer sidewalls (which is why A/S and summer tyres will usually give better wet braking results).
  
• You don't need star marked tyres as you're not on X-drive. The only advantage they really offer is that if you're running staggered and XD the rolling diameters are properly matched. If you're running square, or you're RWD, then the need to have absolutely equal diameter/circumference isn't there so you can get away with running whatever brand and model you want. My experience is that the speedo also seems to be more accurate than with non-* tyres. 70mph with PZ4* in 19" is 69mph on the GPS. With the Previous Michelin PS4S in the same sizes that was 68mph.
  
• Winters do tend to get skittish when they wear down fully. I think the compound needs the movement in the additional sipes to work properly, even just on greasy roads. Once the sipes are gone the handling of the tyre, even in non-winter conditions falls off markedly.
  
• All seasons such as the Vectors, or summer snow tyres like the CrossClimate are definitely good all round choices if you're not often in the depths of winter. If you're after full winters and in RFT then usually you'll find that Conti especially are often a model behind against the non-RFT versions. The latest Conti is the TS870 but the RFT version available is the TS850. GY's UG Performance+ is an outstanding tyre in non-RFT but unfortunately seems difficult to track down in the size I want (but is easily found in 225/45/18). Personally I've been looking at the latest Hankook Icept Evo3 RFT as they're not the daft money of Michelins and they seem to get a good all round review, and they're a much newer tyre than the Conti TS850 . Michelin Alpin's are amazing tyres and I've used them in the past, but I find that I just don't drive the car hard enough in non-snow to justify their increased dry road performance (mainly because most of my winter driving is at night where the invisibility of deer is the biggest limit to speed). I really liked the Sottozero3 when I put them on the Impreza as at the time they were the latest tyre out and so were pretty much best performing. However, my general rule is that I don't like Pirelli's on wet and greasy roads, and in the RFT version I have fitted to the BMW in 19" they definitely haven't lived up to the expectation after having them on the Impreza. A lot of that will be down to sidewall squish. And in any case the Cinturato winter is difficult to track down, and the Sotto has long been surpassed by almost every other mid-high range winter tyre options. That doesn't mean they're suddenly crap if you've already got them, but if you're buying new there's much better out there.
  
• As to the size option, 245/45/18 is what I'm going with, in RFT, and non-*. It may risk the speedo over-reading but comparing the PS4S (rather than the PZ4) to the rolling diameter of this size it should just be bang on. Time will tell.

Hopefully some of that is of some use!

danb1979 I suspect looking at 245 is same reason I am; 235/45 is not an option in RFT winter tyres unfortunately, only 225/45 or 245/45. And as I've previously mentioned, RFT is non-negotiable for me and sounds like it might be for the OP too. If there was space for a full sized spare under the floor I'd be quite happy to go non-RFT.

[robbiep]

I used RFT Pirelli Sottozero 18" for 4 winters, they performed brilliantly, even on packed snow and ice (the ungritted lane up past our home is a Strava segment that is 15-17% in places, and the RWD F31 went up it perfectly fine).

I don't think you'll find many better winter RFTs

[Ennoch]

Originally Posted by robbiep

I used RFT Pirelli Sottozero 18" for 4 winters, they performed brilliantly, even on packed snow and ice (the ungritted lane up past our home is a Strava segment that is 15-17% in places, and the RWD F31 went up it perfectly fine).

I don't think you'll find many better winter RFTs

I'm willing to accept that it's very possibly (indeed likely) just the 40/35 profiles causing the issue on the RFT Sottozeros I've had for the last three years! My 225/45/17's on the Impreza during beast from the east were outstanding. I do think the newer tyres have moved the game on a bit, but like I said that doesn't make what went before suddenly worse than they were. We fitted the GY UG Perf+ to my dad's Evoque and they just felt even better, but then that car also rotates better in corners than the BMW anyway because of the square wheelbase/track ratio which in winter definitely gives more confidence.

It's always so difficult to do fair comparisons these things, and it's not as if we're all trying multiple tyres back to back in the same conditions and on the same car. I much preferred testing MTB tyres, much cheaper and much simpler, albeit similarly challenging to get consistent conditions to test in.

[Jim23k]

Thanks for the info all, much appreciated.

I'm leaning towards the CrossClimate's as I'd already seen the decent offer from Camskill right now:

Michelin Cross Climate 2 ZP Runflat 225/45 RF18 95Y XL RFT TL

£155 with £60 cashback via Michelin promo, allowing £15 fitting/balancing per tyre would make £155 the all-in price which is significantly better value that the full winters.

I've asked several dealerships about the Sottozero 3 star marked tyres and they have all said that they would be fine for the F31 (despite not being OE), at 225/45 R18 95V XL RFT*

One dealership told me that using non-star marked tyres could have an impact on warranty, however I also called the BMW insured warranty helpline and they told me that tyre choice has no impact on cover (although I could see this being a factor if non-standard sizes are used for an x-drive vehicle).

[Jim23k]

Originally Posted by danb1979

No xDrive = use whichever tyres you want

I've gone for Goodyear Vector 4Season Gen3s all round on my freshly refurbed Style 397s, in 235/45/18 size

I run 235/45/18 Goodyear Assym6s on my 405Ms for my summer wheels

One size wider than OEM (225/45); so no stretched sidewall and a much better turn in feel

Camskill are my usual go to; but Asda Tyres (delivered) were £75 cheaper this time around, worth looking

Camskill 18" RFT winters:
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m11b0s488...Runflat_inc_OE

Camskill 18" RFT all seasons:
https://www.camskill.co.uk/m141b0s92...Runflat_inc_OE

I've gone with all seasons this time round rather than dedicated winters as most driving will be normal day to day with a few road trips up to the Highlands and back

I did always run dedicated winters; but now I'm retired from traipsing around the backroads in Scotland looking for stones to lift; they're not needed as much

405M summers:


397 'winters':

I do love the look of the 405m's on the F31 - contrasting black with GS and a black grille.

Yours looks very glossy!

My ceramic coating is still holding up well 3 years down the line.

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by Jim23k

Thanks for the info all, much appreciated.

I'm leaning towards the CrossClimate's as I'd already seen the decent offer from Camskill right now:

Michelin Cross Climate 2 ZP Runflat 225/45 RF18 95Y XL RFT TL

£155 with £60 cashback via Michelin promo, allowing £15 fitting/balancing per tyre would make £155 the all-in price which is significantly better value that the full winters.

I've asked several dealerships about the Sottozero 3 star marked tyres and they have all said that they would be fine for the F31 (despite not being OE), at 225/45 R18 95V XL RFT*

One dealership told me that using non-star marked tyres could have an impact on warranty, however I also called the BMW insured warranty helpline and they told me that tyre choice has no impact on cover (although I could see this being a factor if non-standard sizes are used for an x-drive vehicle).

That's a good deal...

Some dealerships do talk tosh at times...

You'll be spot on with those tyres; you don't need star rated as your car isn't xDrive etc

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by Jim23k

I do love the look of the 405m's on the F31 - contrasting black with GS and a black grille.

Yours looks very glossy!

My ceramic coating is still holding up well 3 years down the line.

Cheers; I'm a big fan of them now; had to let them grow on me at first, but really glad I went with them. They're very light too which is great; nearly 4.5kg weight difference between them and the 397s as a bare alloy; god knows what the weight is with the tyre fitted (should have weighed them on my digital scales before I fitted them but forgot)!

Glad I stuck with satin black for the 397s too; they suit that colour well and as you said; it's a good contrast in colour and matches the cars OEM black trim etc

[Ennoch]

Well my winters turned up today from Camskill. A set of Continental TS850 P SSR in 245/45/18 (ironically both * and MO marked despite not hunting them out). At worst they'll be a max of 1mph over, but I suspect they'll be closer to bang on the money as the PS4S were about 68mph at an indicated 70mph. We'll see once they get fitted. It was already -6c on the way down the road last week so it's definitely time to get them on. I normally get a local guy to fit tyres for £10 each but his machine's out of action at the moment so it'll be closer to £20 each tyre. As there's a local place that does wheel refurbing as a deal for £150 in boggo silver at the moment I'm going to go for that. I think the 396M suit silver best anyway. I'll get them dropped off in the next day or two so hopefully early next week I'll have them on the car. It'll certainly be interesting to see how the ride changes with the bigger sidewalls, despite still being run flats.

[Jim23k]

After much deliberation I decided to stick with the full winters and got a set of Continental TS860S SSR * 225/45 R18 95V.

I was quite surprised that my local dealer could supply and fit them for less than the tyres alone cost from Camskill/Black Circles etc which was surprising, so it's always worth talking to their parts department to see what they can do.

Still bedding them in but first impressions are good. Very quiet and responsive turn in. One thing to note is there is pretty much no rim protection compared to the Pirellis but I can't remember the last time I kerbed a wheel so fingers crossed this won't be an issue.

405Ms are back on 😍

[danb1979]

Originally Posted by Jim23k

After much deliberation I decided to stick with the full winters and got a set of Continental TS860S SSR * 225/45 R18 95V.

I was quite surprised that my local dealer could supply and fit them for less than the tyres alone cost from Camskill/Black Circles etc which was surprising, so it's always worth talking to their parts department to see what they can do.

Still bedding them in but first impressions are good. Very quiet and responsive turn in. One thing to note is there is pretty much no rim protection compared to the Pirellis but I can't remember the last time I kerbed a wheel so fingers crossed this won't be an issue.

405Ms are back on 😍

They look spot on I am biased though

The rim protection is why I went for 235s all round as opposed to the OEM 225 fitments; straighter sidewall too

[Ofield_94]

I bought 4 Continental T870P's (225/45/18) on 400M's last year. Can't fault the all round performance of them in the colder weather plus they worked really well in the snow on my RWD 4 series.

[Ennoch]

Oi, stop showing off all your TS860 and TS870's! If only either of them had been easily available in the larger 245 I'd have gone for them, but I decided that snow performance would be sufficient (ground clearance is the issue with these cars more than anything), and I wanted the extra rim protection from craters. I'm just jealous.

I did notice the rim protector seems minimal but looking at Jim23k's wheels above, even the 225/45 seems to have a nice amount of bulge to the sidewall to take the outer point of the tyre away from the rim so hopefully it isn't an issue.