[TupperBMW]

^ First of all, my M850i has 19k miles and is a '22 model, so I'm not sure how $58k "looks right" when you got $60k for a '19 model with similar miles.

Secondly, the 8 series very much is NOT a common car. Is it rare? No. It's not rare like a GT3RS or anything remotely close to that. But among BMW's, it's one of the least common models you'll see on the streets.

But regardless, that's not why it isn't selling well. It being "common" has nothing to do with it.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ First of all, my M850i has 19k miles and is a '22 model, so I'm not sure how $58k "looks right" when you got $60k for a '19 model with similar miles.

Secondly, the 8 series very much is NOT a common car. Is it rare? No. It's not rare like a GT3RS or anything remotely close to that. But among BMW's, it's one of the least common models you'll see on the streets.

But regardless, that's not why it isn't selling well. It being "common" has nothing to do with it.

Well ya--- its not common for sure unlike a white Tesla LOL but the over production piece vs demand still applies as you know well.

As for his trade in value, there were two transactions based on his comment where he got a GT3RS so even if the dealer truly valued his car less; they had a place to bury the over allowance on the trade and that could have been in the GT3RS.

2019's are softer than yours LOL....

Using the same manheim valuation I used on your (source):

2019's M850i Verts are in the 40's on ACV's so any normal dealer would be in that range and my wholesalers say the same but where there is a new car involved or a trade; dealers can get creative for sure. And especially if it was a new GT3RS where the ADM's are 150 over and above... a dealer can easily adjust things and sadly the used car manager is the one who gets stuck buried in a 19 at an over value.

[KONG991TT]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ First of all, my M850i has 19k miles and is a '22 model, so I'm not sure how $58k "looks right" when you got $60k for a '19 model with similar miles.

Secondly, the 8 series very much is NOT a common car. Is it rare? No. It's not rare like a GT3RS or anything remotely close to that. But among BMW's, it's one of the least common models you'll see on the streets.

But regardless, that's not why it isn't selling well. It being "common" has nothing to do with it.

No need to get defensive here with this "first of all" stuff Tupp, I'm just giving you a data point(s) and didn't mean to offend you man.

1) Convertible's carry a premium over a Gran Coupe (sedan). Market, season, options, location, service history, vehicle condition and even color impact values. I traded mine in for a car much more expensive so maybe they were able to budge a little more and making it back on the 3RS.

2) I looked at Autotrader and gran coupes with similar miles range between 58k-68k retail so you got a trade in value that's literally at the bottom of the RETAIL spectrum (traditionally, trade in offers are well below RETAIL but we live in strange times). That's why I said it looked right. You can explain to them how uncommon the car is and that it's one of the least common models they'll see on the streets. If your logic is correct, they should budge and give you a higher price.

3) Yes, it's the least produced model in the sea of BMW's but when I say it's a common car, BMW's are a dime a dozen.

4) Its a hard thing to accept since we're all enthusiasts here but the reason why they're not selling is because no one is buying them. Your trade in value reflects the MARKET demand. They didn't sell that well when they were new, they won't sell as well used.

It sucks, I lost a little bit of money too when I traded mine in but I knew that walking in for the aforementioned reasons above.

[TupperBMW]

^ You misread, I wasn't offended in the least (internet forums are notorious for not conveying tone correctly). But I agree totally with your points.

The reason the M850i depreciated so much is not because it's a common car, it's because it's not selling well for aforementioned reasons.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Well ya--- its not common for sure unlike a white Tesla LOL but the over production piece vs demand still applies as you know well.

As for his trade in value, there were two transactions based on his comment where he got a GT3RS so even if the dealer truly valued his car less; they had a place to bury the over allowance on the trade and that could have been in the GT3RS.

2019's are softer than yours LOL....

Using the same manheim valuation I used on your (source):

2019's M850i Verts are in the 40's on ACV's so any normal dealer would be in that range and my wholesalers say the same but where there is a new car involved or a trade; dealers can get creative for sure. And especially if it was a new GT3RS where the ADM's are 150 over and above... a dealer can easily adjust things and sadly the used car manager is the one who gets stuck buried in a 19 at an over value.

Yes, this logic makes total sense. To sell a GT3RS with a huge ADM, they can pay a little above market for a used M850i and I think thats how they pencil in the deal

[KONG991TT]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ You misread, I wasn't offended in the least (internet forums are notorious for not conveying tone correctly). But I agree totally with your points.

The reason the M850i depreciated so much is not because it's a common car, it's because it's not selling well for aforementioned reasons.

Hate the miscommunication, love getting the discussions back to facts. It's upsetting because like I've mentioned previously, I truly believe the 8 was a return to form for BMW and really loved it. Unfortunately, my journey with it ended when it was time to move into the 3RS. The 8 occupies a weird place in the pantheon of 4 seater convertibles and in very many ways, is the king of the segment (an S-class couple?? Pshhhhh).

To be clear, it was a 991.2 GT3RS - that $150k+ ADM on the 992 isn't something I can stomach and in fact, pisses me off about the nature of P-cars these days (the other end of the spectrum on the depreciation topic).

I picked up a 19 3RS with 2k miles as a track car and just as the weather warms up, I will miss the big ol' V8 under the hood of a convertible.

[italian926]

I dont think the 8's , any of the 8's, are common at all. In one year driving this car, I can count on one hand how many Ive come across.

[KONG991TT]

Originally Posted by italian926

I dont think the 8's , any of the 8's, are common at all. In one year driving this car, I can count on one hand how many Ive come across.

I know the 8 did not sell well in North America (supposedly their largest market) so I'm not surprised but then I also seem to see them everywhere here in the DC area so maybe some markets performed better than others.

[Wavy]

They're pretty common in LA. I saw a blue M8 revving at a light and it turned me on to the 8. Ended up getting the B8 instead.

[TupperBMW]

^ Yeah, but everything is common in LA, so whatever cars you see there isn’t really the benchmark for anywhere else

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by italian926

I dont think the 8's , any of the 8's, are common at all. In one year driving this car, I can count on one hand how many Ive come across.

Definitely not. Over here in NW Germany, I see one every few months (other than my neighbor's M8); they are indeed a rare sight.


Overly large luxo-sports coupes short on practicality will never be big sellers. But the 8 is one of my favorite BMWs.

[Vic55]

I cant remember the last time I actually saw an M8 coupe locally in the OC except for at meets... I do see GC's and Verts here and there but in reality they just arent a heavily produced item and their production even at the lower end of the BMW quantity chart still lacks demand.

[Tenac]

Same around here, seeing an actual M8 is very rare, on my west side of town. I however see a few 840i's and a bit more rare than that the M850. I honestly believe the M8 will be a rebound value, when production stops and about 5 years goes by. Hell you still see (2016) M2's selling for 50-60k that's damn near MSRP but it took time. A well spec'd M8 will hold its own in time.

[RJC-1]

I’m in Naples FL they are a bit more common here but mostly verts b/c the local dealer generally stocks verts. I will say when they do get coupes they sell quickly modt of the time.

[Dr Thrillride]

In Alberta, any 8 series is rare. There are more 850 GCs than anything. I’m the only lunatic with an M8 on the track in my parts.

[BMWGUYinCO]

This discussion is of interest to me because my lease is ending on my 2022 M850i Convertible in May. It has every option except for the glass controls. Buy off at lease end is $62K. Car has only 15K miles.

Do I buy it and keep it, knowing depreciation continues like a rock? It's such a great car as everyone has mentioned, I'm just not sure.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

This discussion is of interest to me because my lease is ending on my 2022 M850i Convertible in May. It has every option except for the glass controls. Buy off at lease end is $62K. Car has only 15K miles.

Do I buy it and keep it, knowing depreciation continues like a rock? It's such a great car as everyone has mentioned, I'm just not sure.

BMW is notorious for having higher residuals so your buyout will probably be over market value...

but interestingly enough the wholesale value on your car is around 70k right now... did you get the car in 21 or do a 2 year lease?

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by Vic55

BMW is notorious for having higher residuals so your buyout will probably be over market value...

but interestingly enough the wholesale value on your car is around 70k right now... did you get the car in 21 or do a 2 year lease?

I got the car in May of 2021 as a 2022 model year, 3 year lease with 7,500K mpy.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by BMWGUYinCO

I got the car in May of 2021 as a 2022 model year, 3 year lease with 7,500K mpy.

So thats the ticket--- thus the valuations on the car while still low are not bad since you got it a year early.

You might want to keep it if you really love it.

[RJC-1]

Originally Posted by Vic55

You might want to keep it if you really love it.

This is something that pulled me away from getting a new M8 last year as my late production 2019 M850 still only has 5800 miles on it. Furthermore my dealer for the 25 M8 wants me to agree to a price/discount now vs when it arrives/current fmv at the time it does, yet won’t put a number on my trade until then. I explained they can’t have it both ways so we are now deadlocked. They are giving me the same discount on the M8 they offered me more than 6mos ago and times/pricing/didcounts have certainly changed since then, plus my trade was ~$10k more at that time.

[M8Bimmer]

I my city or anywhere in southern Ontario, 8 series cars are rare to see.

[Powerwhee]

Originally Posted by Kponti

And for folks who are not blinded by the price tag and love for the 8 series will also notice that driving the M4 x-drive is not that different from the 8 series for the average consumer.
Also V8s in general are sluggish and slow revving compared to smaller engines like the straight 6 in BMWs.

Add that you can be just as fast (or a lot faster) with less power for much cheaper, plus a lot cheaper to repair if shit blows on the i-6, makes purchasing the M8 more of a love for it and less of an enthusiast choice.

The S58 sounds like shit honestly, although better than the S55, and in stock form is no where near as fast as the S63. The rolling starts (5-60 mph) are like a second off. You definitely feel the difference in power and sound. Stock for stock there’s no comparison in these areas.

I don’t know what you mean by revving faster—the cylinders don’t dictate that. You can slap on ridiculously short gears onto any car and it will rev out crazy fast.

And the S63 revs ridiculously fast, although maybe it is not as responsive as the S58. Those are two different things. Having driven both, I do think the S58 may be more responsive in the sense it feels more “alive” somehow. The S63 almost has this freight train crazy fast pull about it that makes it feel different than the S58, where you feel like the engine is responding and working with you. But I think the S63 revs faster than the S58 when it’s ripping up the 8 gears, even if the S58 feels more responsive.

If both engines are tuned and modded similarly, then the S58-powered vehicle may edge out the S63-powered vehicle, as the S58 can approach S63 power levels mod for mod and weighs less.

The S58 is a great engine no doubt power/cabability wise, but still sounds like shit compared to S63, lol.

All that being said, I get where you are coming from. People do demand the M3/M4 more at this point in the market.

Generally, you can get a 2020-2022 M8 for cheaper than, or similiar price as, a 2020-2022 M4. It’s odd and makes no sense to me given the M8 is an objectively better car if your criteria on a car is build quality, power, sound, luxuriousness, and comfort. But the M4 is sportier while also maintaining high marks in the other ways mentioned, so I guess that’s enough for most people to want the M4 over the M8.

Still, I think the market in ten years will realize this was a fuck up. IMO, at some point depreciation should reverse or at least hold steady as people look back in hindsight and remember all the good things about the M8 when you can’t easily find a V8 BMW anymore, but for now depreciation is in full force. And maybe it will always be. Don’t buy a car expecting it not to depreciate—almost all do.