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      01-20-2019, 08:20 AM   #23
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If you not read this, you'll enjoy it I think:

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...uries-feature/
I will read this it looks super fun
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      01-21-2019, 12:24 PM   #24
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Great article-thanks for sharing!
If one does the math, the Model T actually had a faster average speed of 32.8 MPH vs. the Tesla's 32.5 MPH.

But the race was in 2013. In 2019, I'd bet the Supercharger network would have the Model S way ahead.
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      01-21-2019, 11:28 PM   #25
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Hats off to Tesla, seriously.

But in all seriousness, their cars are a bit overrated by techie journalists. I used to work there briefly in college too and my opinion has not changed of their clients....

They are a bunch of techie nerds, not real car guys/gals. Pretty insufferable group once they get online.
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      01-22-2019, 09:39 AM   #26
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Hats off to Tesla, seriously.

But in all seriousness, their cars are a bit overrated by techie journalists. I used to work there briefly in college too and my opinion has not changed of their clients....

They are a bunch of techie nerds, not real car guys/gals. Pretty insufferable group once they get online.
I agree its over hyped and overrated a little because it is expensive to make the lowest car in their range is basic model 3 with some options for 44K if you read elon Musk's latest email for staff he is trying his best with the engineering team to produce the car with lower cost his aim to sell the car around 33K so it will be more affordable for many people considering a car in this segment, until then to make sustainable car and run it is expensive while fossil fuel is cheap and the big companies have been doing this since decades so competing with them is not easy but no one can denies what Tesla achieved in those little years is majestic.
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      01-22-2019, 09:46 AM   #27
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Seems like it kind of runs out of steam when it gets above 130kph?
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      01-22-2019, 02:25 PM   #28
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If on a long distance trip, say from LA to Phoenix, one will arrive significantly earlier (two-three hours) in a gasoline powered car with no more horsepower than a Toyota Corolla because of the Tesla's limited range and long charging times. That doesn't sound fun to me.
You know what else doesn't sound fun? Driving from LA to Phoenix. You do know that both are large cities with airports, right?
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      01-22-2019, 02:48 PM   #29
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If on a long distance trip, say from LA to Phoenix, one will arrive significantly earlier (two-three hours) in a gasoline powered car with no more horsepower than a Toyota Corolla because of the Tesla's limited range and long charging times. That doesn't sound fun to me.
You know what else doesn't sound fun? Driving from LA to Phoenix. You do know that both are large cities with airports, right?
Let them keep making an argument that absolutely doesn't apply to buyers of these cars. It's funny how often this comes up with EV's. That and 'I drive 218k miles a year and live off the grid, how can I make this stupid car work?!'
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      01-22-2019, 03:18 PM   #30
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You know what else doesn't sound fun? Driving from LA to Phoenix. You do know that both are large cities with airports, right?
This times 1000. I'm not trying to drive that far when airplains exist.
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      01-22-2019, 03:59 PM   #31
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This times 1000. I'm not trying to drive that far when airplains exist.
In September of 2017 we took a nice 2-week road trip from the East coast to the Rockies in our 20-year old Z3. I saw one (1) Tesla Supercharger station along the way... One.
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      01-22-2019, 04:10 PM   #32
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This times 1000. I'm not trying to drive that far when airplains exist.
In September of 2017 we took a nice 2-week road trip from the East coast to the Rockies in our 20-year old Z3. I saw one (1) Tesla Supercharger station along the way... One.
Did you take a Tesla? The point is that people buying Teslas either fly, have another car or rent an ICE. None of that is difficult. We're considering an eTron and with Audi rates on Silvercar, it's pretty cheap to rent a Q5 or Q7.

Yet over the last two years, I make a drive from Dallas to Santa Fe a few times a year and I've started seeing more and more Teslas on that 640 mile drive.
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      01-22-2019, 04:42 PM   #33
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Did you take a Tesla? The point is that people buying Teslas either fly, have another car or rent an ICE. None of that is difficult. We're considering an eTron and with Audi rates on Silvercar, it's pretty cheap to rent a Q5 or Q7.

Yet over the last two years, I make a drive from Dallas to Santa Fe a few times a year and I've started seeing more and more Teslas on that 640 mile drive.
The point of road trip is to have a general point of destination but no exact path to get there. Using a Tesla means planning the trip down to the 300-mileth detail. A road trip is not travelling point A to point B, but discovering places you didn't anticipate.
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      01-22-2019, 04:48 PM   #34
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Did you take a Tesla? The point is that people buying Teslas either fly, have another car or rent an ICE. None of that is difficult. We're considering an eTron and with Audi rates on Silvercar, it's pretty cheap to rent a Q5 or Q7.

Yet over the last two years, I make a drive from Dallas to Santa Fe a few times a year and I've started seeing more and more Teslas on that 640 mile drive.
The point of road trip is to have a general point of destination but no exact path to get there. Using a Tesla means planning the trip down to the 300-mileth detail. A road trip is not travelling point A to point B, but discovering places you didn't anticipate.
Exactly. And currently Tesla builds two sedans and an SUV/Abomination. None are 'imma go get lost' road trip cars. You'll have a little bit of a point when the Roadster arrives (which claims a 620m range), but until then you're mostly just creating a scenario that doesn't actually exist for people who buy EV's.

If we bought an eTron, it would work for 99% of my wife's needs and my car would accommodate the 1% it wouldn't be ideally suited for, long road trips. And honestly, with fast charging, this argument, as baseless as it is, probably only has three to five years left. Get it while you can!
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      01-22-2019, 05:48 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
In September of 2017 we took a nice 2-week road trip from the East coast to the Rockies in our 20-year old Z3. I saw one (1) Tesla Supercharger station along the way... One.
So 1% of the time you can rent a car. Ruling out a car because it can't do a thing you might do every few years seems silly. My 135i can't haul plywood. Shouldn't have bought it I guess. Wait...no...that's why I bought the truck, too.
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      01-22-2019, 09:43 PM   #36
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So 1% of the time you can rent a car. Ruling out a car because it can't do a thing you might do every few years seems silly. My 135i can't haul plywood. Shouldn't have bought it I guess. Wait...no...that's why I bought the truck, too.
Who ruled out a car? In 2017 you couldn't rent a 1997 Z3. I guess you could buy one for the trip and then sell it when you got back, but that's seem like a real pain in the ass. Oh, and I had one already.
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Last edited by Efthreeoh; 01-23-2019 at 08:22 AM.
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      01-22-2019, 10:10 PM   #37
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You know what else doesn't sound fun? Driving from LA to Phoenix. You do know that both are large cities with airports, right?
Its not too bad once in a while to take the M6 out and stretch its legs for 5 hours which it was designed to do.
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      01-23-2019, 05:32 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
In September of 2017 we took a nice 2-week road trip from the East coast to the Rockies in our 20-year old Z3. I saw one (1) Tesla Supercharger station along the way... One.
I'm thankful to have done well enough in life for road trips not to be my thing.

That's simply not something I'd ever desire to do, but to each their own.
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      01-23-2019, 08:16 AM   #39
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I'm thankful to have done well enough in life for road trips not to be my thing.

That's simply not something I'd ever desire to do, but to each their own.
Good for you! But what does having "done well in life" have anything to do with the desire to take a road trip? LOL
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      01-23-2019, 08:45 AM   #40
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Who ruled out a car? In 2017 you couldn't rent a 1997 Z3. I guess you could buy one for the trip and then sell it when you got back, but that's seem like a real pain in the ass. Oh, and I had one already.
I guess call me crazy, but it looked like you were using the challenges of road-tripping a Tesla as a reason not to purchase one.

And you're right. You can't rent a 1997 Z3, but you can rent a lot of nicer cars. Similar use-case arguments can be made agaisnt something like a Z3 in terms of 'lack of funtion'. Not exactly a spacious family car.

Obviously a Tesla isn't for you if every car you own needs to be able to drive across the country on a randomly determined route. I still think that's like arguing against buying a 1997 Z3 because once a year you need to haul firewood to your house for the winter.
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      01-23-2019, 09:52 AM   #41
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I guess call me crazy, but it looked like you were using the challenges of road-tripping a Tesla as a reason not to purchase one.

And you're right. You can't rent a 1997 Z3, but you can rent a lot of nicer cars. Similar use-case arguments can be made against something like a Z3 in terms of 'lack of function'. Not exactly a spacious family car.

Obviously a Tesla isn't for you if every car you own needs to be able to drive across the country on a randomly determined route. I still think that's like arguing against buying a 1997 Z3 because once a year you need to haul firewood to your house for the winter.
I'm being a bit sarcastic obviously. But my point really is, that despite the Tesla's ability for a 300 mile range, it still limits its owner as to where he can drive it long distance. Surely a Tesla owner can travel the major corridors north-south and east-west where superchargers are located, but it requires planning and an app. A Jack Kerouac road trip is the opposite of that, which was my sarcastic input to make an obvious point.

I get the point, you can just own or rent an ICE to take a road trip vs. a Tesla, but I'd counter, renting a car for a two-week road trip is actually quite expensive (I checked into a Mustang convertible) considering you have a perfectly good car at home (I have 4 to choose from - all different to serve a specific use-case). Airplanes over a Tesla for interstate travel is a good example of a use case if you are trying to get to point B at a specific time.

My wife has kept the Z3 for 21 years now, both of us think it is a nice car
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      01-23-2019, 10:25 AM   #42
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I guess call me crazy, but it looked like you were using the challenges of road-tripping a Tesla as a reason not to purchase one.

And you're right. You can't rent a 1997 Z3, but you can rent a lot of nicer cars. Similar use-case arguments can be made against something like a Z3 in terms of 'lack of function'. Not exactly a spacious family car.

Obviously a Tesla isn't for you if every car you own needs to be able to drive across the country on a randomly determined route. I still think that's like arguing against buying a 1997 Z3 because once a year you need to haul firewood to your house for the winter.
I'm being a bit sarcastic obviously. But my point really is, that despite the Tesla's ability for a 300 mile range, it still limits its owner as to where he can drive it long distance. Surely a Tesla owner can travel the major corridors north-south and east-west where superchargers are located, but it requires planning and an app. A Jack Kerouac road trip is the opposite of that, which was my sarcastic input to make an obvious point.

I get the point, you can just own or rent an ICE to take a road trip vs. a Tesla, but I'd counter, renting a car for a two-week road trip is actually quite expensive (I checked into a Mustang convertible) considering you have a perfectly good car at home (I have 4 to choose from - all different to serve a specific use-case). Airplanes over a Tesla for interstate travel is a good example of a use case if you are trying to get to point B at a specific time.

My wife has kept the Z3 for 21 years now, both of us think it is a nice car
Come on. I'll bet one of those four cars has no business being on a long road trip. You're making the case against your own argument.

And wait a minute, having owned a Z3 M Coupe, first, they aren't comfortable for more than about two hours and second, that stupid 12g tank doesn't really give you much range if driven aggressively.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who rode a BMW and another who had a Ducati. They'd race from Dallas to Austin, the Duck going flat out, refilling often and the BMW just cruising along. They usually got there at about the same time.
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      01-23-2019, 10:30 AM   #43
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Come on. I'll bet one of those four cars has no business being on a long road trip. You're making the case against your own argument.
Well one gets driven around 800 miles/week, so yeah, it stays home for most road trips...
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      01-23-2019, 10:36 AM   #44
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Come on. I'll bet one of those four cars has no business being on a long road trip. You're making the case against your own argument.

And wait a minute, having owned a Z3 M Coupe, first, they aren't comfortable for more than about two hours and second, that stupid 12g tank doesn't really give you much range if driven aggressively.

Reminds me of a friend of mine who rode a BMW and another who had a Ducati. They'd race from Dallas to Austin, the Duck going flat out, refilling often and the BMW just cruising along. They usually got there at about the same time.
Shit, a Z3 M Coupe with a S54 vs. a Z3 Roaster and a M44, two different cars. 30 MPG x 12 gals. an easy 300+ miles a tank (and there are thousands of recharging stations EVERYWHERE).

Even with a Bilstein/H&R sport suspension, the Z3 is quite comfortable. More comfortable than my Honda Valkyrie, which we've taken out West... twice. The Z3 may have a tiny bit more luggage capacity
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