[FBMWWINS]

I was also thinking it's weird if in his case if the exhaust was left "untouched" but happy for him of course if that is the case. Some tuners also say that the ECU remap does not get "touched" by OTA updates whereas in fact it does. There are people here on bimmerpost who have been affected by it. At least 3 or 4 posts over in the G05 forum confirm it and I have no reasons for not believing them. Several German tuners (not just my trusted one) I asked confirmed the very same. Thus it's easy to deduce that if this update can wipe DME data it can as well update other ECUs of the very same vehicle.

https://g05.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1744973

[Andycam]

Hi,

New poster here (new reader as well, admittedly) - nice to e-meet all BMW 8 gurus :-)

I'm about to take the plunge on a moderately used (900km/560mi) 2019 M850i, so I've started reading up and I have to admit this thread has me confused. I hope you can help clarify for me.

As I understand it, the latest iDrive software affects the sound of the car. My understanding, or rather assumption, was that the iDrive software is for the infotainment system and driver interactions - e g what's displayed on the HUD. I would understand if the update makes changes to the synthetic engine sound being piped through the speakers. But what I'm reading here is that it actually affects the engine/exhaust sound, and here is where I struggle.

I am no engineer nor a mechanic, but in my world the engine sound comes from the actual combustion of the fuel/air mixture in the engine, and that would be affected by the physical properties of the engine and the engine bay. How can that be affected by software? I guess if the iDrive software made changes to e g the fuel injection the fuel/air mixture could be richer or leaner and that might have an impact, but that should also affect performance and other characteristics, right? And the exhaust sound, isn't that a product of the design of the downpipes, catalytic converters, mufflers etc? I would again understand if BMW started putting in a particle filter, but software?

So my question is, how can a software update actually affect the sound? Or are the changes described referring to the artificial sound played through the speakers?

Hope I make sense, sorry if the answer should be obvious to me...

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Andycam

Hi,

New poster here (new reader as well, admittedly) - nice to e-meet all BMW 8 gurus :-)

I'm about to take the plunge on a moderately used (900km/560mi) 2019 M850i, so I've started reading up and I have to admit this thread has me confused. I hope you can help clarify for me.

As I understand it, the latest iDrive software affects the sound of the car. My understanding, or rather assumption, was that the iDrive software is for the infotainment system and driver interactions - e g what's displayed on the HUD. I would understand if the update makes changes to the synthetic engine sound being piped through the speakers. But what I'm reading here is that it actually affects the engine/exhaust sound, and here is where I struggle.

I am no engineer nor a mechanic, but in my world the engine sound comes from the actual combustion of the fuel/air mixture in the engine, and that would be affected by the physical properties of the engine and the engine bay. How can that be affected by software? I guess if the iDrive software made changes to e g the fuel injection the fuel/air mixture could be richer or leaner and that might have an impact, but that should also affect performance and other characteristics, right? And the exhaust sound, isn't that a product of the design of the downpipes, catalytic converters, mufflers etc? I would again understand if BMW started putting in a particle filter, but software?

So my question is, how can a software update actually affect the sound? Or are the changes described referring to the artificial sound played through the speakers?

Hope I make sense, sorry if the answer should be obvious to me...

The software controls the active flaps and the "extra" fuel and air that create the pops and bangs.

The "regular" sounds in normal comfort mode is a base line. Pure engine like most non-super cars.
The sport mode opens up the exhaust flaps and increasing boost to the turbo and more gas and fuel and air. The extra unused power, noticeable when downshifting or quickly removing throttle inputs, comes out the turbo cat back exhaust and create loud pops and bangs.

The software removed this and doesn't allow the extra power to escape. In efforts to be more eco friendly and emissions controls in Europe, the "extra" power is now returned to the rpm engine and not spit out the back to reduce the noise and sounds.

I'm not a mechanic, but my best friend is a bmw mechanic and he can explain it in proper terms. But in short, he has confirmed with me that the new software is approximately a 55% reduction compared 2019 with 2020.

In the I drive software.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Andycam

Hi,

New poster here (new reader as well, admittedly) - nice to e-meet all BMW 8 gurus :-)

I'm about to take the plunge on a moderately used (900km/560mi) 2019 M850i, so I've started reading up and I have to admit this thread has me confused. I hope you can help clarify for me.

As I understand it, the latest iDrive software affects the sound of the car. My understanding, or rather assumption, was that the iDrive software is for the infotainment system and driver interactions - e g what's displayed on the HUD. I would understand if the update makes changes to the synthetic engine sound being piped through the speakers. But what I'm reading here is that it actually affects the engine/exhaust sound, and here is where I struggle.

I am no engineer nor a mechanic, but in my world the engine sound comes from the actual combustion of the fuel/air mixture in the engine, and that would be affected by the physical properties of the engine and the engine bay. How can that be affected by software? I guess if the iDrive software made changes to e g the fuel injection the fuel/air mixture could be richer or leaner and that might have an impact, but that should also affect performance and other characteristics, right? And the exhaust sound, isn't that a product of the design of the downpipes, catalytic converters, mufflers etc? I would again understand if BMW started putting in a particle filter, but software?

So my question is, how can a software update actually affect the sound? Or are the changes described referring to the artificial sound played through the speakers?

Hope I make sense, sorry if the answer should be obvious to me...

First off welcome to the forum! Granted I'm an absolute neophyte in the world of automotive tuning as my M850i would be the first car I've ever owned that would fall into the potential to do so. In regards to the engine itself you are spot on in regards to combustion based on fuel/air mixture but that itself is controlled by the ECU (engine controlling unit) which is software driven in what I would generally classify as firmware. So BMW can change the performance of the engine no differently than a 3rd party "tuner" by modifying the ECU logic.

As for the exhaust, one aspect is the valves in the way of controlling its sound. This two is software driven, i.e., when they are open vs closed. One of the first reporting of BMW modifying the original M850i sound was changing to the valves to be closed during a cold start to reduce the original aggressive nature that even existed in the default Comfort mode. The OP on that thread pointed out that prior to his iDrive update the remote start (which defaults to Comfort mode) was drastically different than his original iDrive release.

[Andycam]

Thanks @Resjudicata and @bloozemanAZ for quick and clear answers!

[Ozzie8]

Originally Posted by RJC-1

Nice the PWPS's are still in their glorious full effect, this makes sense from what I've been told by my dealer re OTA updates. Are you getting the PWPS's even in comfort mode? I am.

No I don't get them in Comfort just in the Sport Modes.

[RJC-1]

Originally Posted by Andycam

Hi,

New poster here (new reader as well, admittedly) - nice to e-meet all BMW 8 gurus :-)

I'm about to take the plunge on a moderately used (900km/560mi) 2019 M850i, so I've started reading up and I have to admit this thread has me confused. I hope you can help clarify for me.

As I understand it, the latest iDrive software affects the sound of the car. My understanding, or rather assumption, was that the iDrive software is for the infotainment system and driver interactions - e g what's displayed on the HUD. I would understand if the update makes changes to the synthetic engine sound being piped through the speakers. But what I'm reading here is that it actually affects the engine/exhaust sound, and here is where I struggle.

I am no engineer nor a mechanic, but in my world the engine sound comes from the actual combustion of the fuel/air mixture in the engine, and that would be affected by the physical properties of the engine and the engine bay. How can that be affected by software? I guess if the iDrive software made changes to e g the fuel injection the fuel/air mixture could be richer or leaner and that might have an impact, but that should also affect performance and other characteristics, right? And the exhaust sound, isn't that a product of the design of the downpipes, catalytic converters, mufflers etc? I would again understand if BMW started putting in a particle filter, but software?

So my question is, how can a software update actually affect the sound? Or are the changes described referring to the artificial sound played through the speakers?

Hope I make sense, sorry if the answer should be obvious to me...

Welcome. I agree (also not an expert), and was informed by my dealership the the OTA updates are indeed for I drive/HUD driver interacted systems only and will not affect the exhaust noise. I was also informed only the dealer based/ecu type updates would affect the exhaust driveline type components.

[RJC-1]

Originally Posted by Ozzie8

No I don't get them in Comfort just in the Sport Modes.

Interesting, I do in comfort even blipping the throttle with the car in park right after a cold start, but I have had no dealer based SW updates since early Jan of this year

[RJC-1]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

The software controls the active flaps and the "extra" fuel and air that create the pops and bangs.

The "regular" sounds in normal comfort mode is a base line. Pure engine like most non-super cars.
The sport mode opens up the exhaust flaps and increasing boost to the turbo and more gas and fuel and air. The extra unused power, noticeable when downshifting or quickly removing throttle inputs, comes out the turbo cat back exhaust and create loud pops and bangs.

The software removed this and doesn't allow the extra power to escape. In efforts to be more eco friendly and emissions controls in Europe, the "extra" power is now returned to the rpm engine and not spit out the back to reduce the noise and sounds.

I'm not a mechanic, but my best friend is a bmw mechanic and he can explain it in proper terms. But in short, he has confirmed with me that the new software is approximately a 55% reduction compared 2019 with 2020.

In the I drive software.

Thanks, this all makes good sense, but we need a BMW tech on this bloody forum to help out clarify things here!

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by RJC-1

Thanks, this all makes good sense, but we need a BMW tech on this bloody forum to help out clarify things here!

haha, I'll try to get Jason to post some stuff.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

First off welcome to the forum! Granted I'm an absolute neophyte in the world of automotive tuning as my M850i would be the first car I've ever owned that would fall into the potential to do so. In regards to the engine itself you are spot on in regards to combustion based on fuel/air mixture but that itself is controlled by the ECU (engine controlling unit) which is software driven in what I would generally classify as firmware. So BMW can change the performance of the engine no differently than a 3rd party "tuner" by modifying the ECU logic.

As for the exhaust, one aspect is the valves in the way of controlling its sound. This two is software driven, i.e., when they are open vs closed. One of the first reporting of BMW modifying the original M850i sound was changing to the valves to be closed during a cold start to reduce the original aggressive nature that even existed in the default Comfort mode. The OP on that thread pointed out that prior to his iDrive update the remote start (which defaults to Comfort mode) was drastically different than his original iDrive release.

as always bloozemanAZ is way more concise and elegant words. But to beat a dead horse i found an article to elaborate and reiterate what he said above:

"The ECU in your car controls at what point in this cycle the spark plug is ignited (ignition timing) and how much fuel is injected at any given point, along with a host of other things. The altering of these parameters is commonly referred to as 'engine mapping'.
Pops and bangs are generated when an explosion echoes in the exhaust. This is either fuel touching the hot exhaust before exploding, or an explosion happening earlier in the system and reverberating through the exhaust. The most common way of achieving this is by retarding the ignition timing so the fuel/air mix ignites later in the engine’s cycle. If timed correctly, the exhaust valve will be opening to allow gas – along with pops and bangs – to escape. This is what most commonly gives you the effect."

https://drivetribe.com/p/exhaust-pop...THmUB7n0en4-3Q

see

[FBMWWINS]

I think the answer is more simple than we think. If several (nit just 1-2) have reported having lost their "glorious exhaust sound" - the REAL natural one, not the artificial from the cabin controllable option (for those who had/have it), then there is some truth to that. User feedbacks and 1st hand experience is the solid basis to go from, not just relying on some theoretical stuff only because 1 dealer said something. Often we get discrepant answers from dealers - and yes even from those we trust because ultimately it is the users/DRIVERS that pay the most attention to their own car and know every little bit and byte of their ride/s.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

I think the answer is more simple than we think. If several (nit just 1-2) have reported having lost their "glorious exhaust sound" - the REAL natural one, not the artificial from the cabin controllable option (for those who had/have it), then there is some truth to that. User feedbacks and 1st hand experience is the solid basis to go from, not just relying on some theoretical stuff only because 1 dealer said something. Often we get discrepant answers from dealers - and yes even from those we trust because ultimately it is the users/DRIVERS that pay the most attention to their own car and know every little bit and byte of their ride/s.

I've finally received the dreaded upgrade notification. What was the conclusion here: did it affect pops and bangs on M-models or otherwise spoil/ruin something else?

[IMG][/IMG]

[FBMWWINS]

From what I read and recall in various threads (remember the "software update stuff" is being talked about a bit everywhere) there have been a couple of M8 owners who did claim they saw a reduction in exhaust sound. Then again, others (e.g. Noushy) said he did not notice any difference after having his updated:

https://f92.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1780337&page=2

My take is, after reading a bit everywhere here in the forum, that the "downgrade" is quite more pronounced (reduction very noticeable in NON sport modes) on M850i models than on the M8. Of course as many confirmed the M850i exhaust sounded for many even better (out of the box / stock) than the M8 one - originally that is.
Best is if other M8 owners who have updated theirs confirm and/or give their feedback.
In the end it's a bit of a tradeoff I am afraid though it's a shame this is happening on BMW side and due to legislations/regulations stuff. We here in Europe are even more affected by that and depending on the country one needs to be really carefully as what mods are made to the exhaust system.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

From what I read and recall in various threads (remember the "software update stuff" is being talked about a bit everywhere) there have been a couple of M8 owners who did claim they saw a reduction in exhaust sound. Then again, others (e.g. Noushy) said he did not notice any difference after having his updated:

https://f92.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...1780337&page=2

My take is, after reading a bit everywhere here in the forum, that the "downgrade" is quite more pronounced (reduction very noticeable in NON sport modes) on M850i models than on the M8. Of course as many confirmed the M850i exhaust sounded for many even better (out of the box / stock) than the M8 one - originally that is.
Best is if other M8 owners who have updated theirs confirm and/or give their feedback.
In the end it's a bit of a tradeoff I am afraid though it's a shame this is happening on BMW side and due to legislations/regulations stuff. We here in Europe are even more affected by that and depending on the country one needs to be really carefully as what mods are made to the exhaust system.

Thanks!

Wrt/ M8 exhaust vs. M850i: I test drove an M8 Comp and M850 almost back-to-back before getting my own (a day did separate the test drives, though). The M850 was noticeably louder and more willing to bark and burble than the M8 Comp but, of course, I wasn't pushing either of them that hard. That held true for my own M8... until perhaps 3 or 4 months in when it started burbling and cracking pretty much all the time in any sport setting. I don't know if this is "by design" or some factor of being worn in but I'll certainly know quickly if they've been suppressed in some way by the upgrade.

From my own research, I concluded this was exclusively an iDrive/cockpit interface update... finger's crossed.

It's already finished the download and prep so I imagine it's installing as I type given it's had the necessary 30 mins of cool down.

I'll post back here once it's done.

[Yogujuhere]

I'm also upgrading from 11/2019.70 to 07/2020.80 via OTA getting pushed to my 850 coupe

Will report back if I feel a change

[redhot47fla]

I also just received it. I see no reason to download and install it.

My car is operating properly and with all functions intact on the originally flawed 03/2020.30, thanks largely to my own repeated efforts to fix what 03/2020.30 and previous updates made wrong, and I have no stomach to go through that again.

(But upon further review, I may not have a choice - the car seems to be downloading it without any action by me.)

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by redhot47fla

I also just received it. I see no reason to download and install it.

My car is operating properly and with all functions intact, thanks largely to my own repeated efforts to fix what previous updates made wrong, and I have no stomach to go through that again.

It's unclear to me whether or not we have a choice. It may simply auto-install; it may not. :

I'm interested in the nav and CarPlay updates as well as the additional voice control capabilities so guinea-pig time it is.

[redhot47fla]

Originally Posted by limeypride

It's unclear to me whether or not we have a choice. It may simply auto-install; it may not. :

Yeah, see the parenthetical line I just added to my comment. It seems to be happening, whether or not I want it to.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by redhot47fla

Yeah, see the line I just added to my comment. It seems to be happening, whether or not I want it to.

You may still have the choice. From the prompts I've just walked through, there was still a firm consent prompt...

[FBMWWINS]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Thanks!

Wrt/ M8 exhaust vs. M850i: I test drove an M8 Comp and M850 almost back-to-back before getting my own (a day did separate the test drives, though). The M850 was noticeably louder and more willing to bark and burble than the M8 Comp but, of course, I wasn't pushing either of them that hard. That held true for my own M8... until perhaps 3 or 4 months in when it started burbling and cracking pretty much all the time in any sport setting. I don't know if this is "by design" or some factor of being worn in but I'll certainly know quickly if they've been suppressed in some way by the upgrade.

From my own research, I concluded this was exclusively an iDrive/cockpit interface update... finger's crossed.

It's already finished the download and prep so I imagine it's installing as I type given it's had the necessary 30 mins of cool down.

I'll post back here once it's done.

I am very interested in your feedback. Based on several and diverse high-end cars you have owned, I would say this helps one in building experience and contributes to noticing and perceiving certain aspects more easily and realistically. I hope for you, and the others, that the update/s do not affect the M8s as much as they do the M850ies.
Also be aware if you having any coding done the latter will most probably get wiped away and you will have to get it coded again. In my case I can tell you coding was wiped (all ECUs that I had coded before) + my DME was overwritten as well meaning my flashtune was, is gone! Ok it's very cold now + Covid so no chance I can really enjoy the extra power - with negative celsius here especially. In spring I will run the latest update if there is a newer one then and after that I will have to get the flashtune programmed back on.

Regarding burble noise further and after reading your feedback above, I will actually tell you a brief story which confirms what you also remember when driving and hearing the M850i exhaust sound. A few weeks ago I was sitting outside (before the latest lockdown arrived and had the cafes remove all tables/chairs) drinking my cappuccino. Behind this coffee place is a parking lot and inevitably you see/hear who arrives, parks, leaves and so on.. I heard some very loud burbles coming from the parking lot (without seeing the car until it turned onto the main road) and believe it or not I almost bet with myself that was going to be a BMW M car, a Maserati, a Lamborghini, Ferrari anyway just something of this (exhaust) caliber! INSTEAD it was an M850i convetible! For sure that owner was still on the 03.2019 software - aware or not of that fact, but for a moment I envied him.... thinking mine nowhere sounds even near to that.

So much for that. Everyone have to know what their priority is between leaving the great sound intact or enjoying some latest stuff or additions to the already rich and high-tech offering which you will find in the variois THE8 models and eventually getting some "bugs" removed, resolved which may or not have been noticed depending on the fact that not all of us use or activate all the tech/options by default. Of course in case of obvious problems/issues, or an eventual recall, the dealer might "force" you to update especially if you are claiming something under warranty which in their system results in a software update action as a first step after their diagnostical verdict.

[FBMWWINS]

Originally Posted by redhot47fla

Yeah, see the parenthetical line I just added to my comment. It seems to be happening, whether or not I want it to.

Check your settings then. You should be able to deactivate this feature. From the “General Settings” menu, select “Remote Software Upgrade”. From the “Remote Software Upgrade” menu, select “Deactivate function now”. In this way only when YOU choose to perform the upgrade after reverting the above setting the upgrade option may get pushed through. Also remember they should have your consent in order to get it pushed through so mark it as NO consent in the privacy/options where it refers to OTA upgrades!

Different story is when you take it to the dealer for a recall, repair, or even a service sometimes! Some dealers may just update the car if their diagnostics suggest it (error in any of the units, electrical components and other cases where their software will call for a flash as a suggested measure/plan in order to solve the issue). Thus it's good practice to tell the dealer NO update/upgrade is desired whenever you take the car to them. It works in most cases and if the former is strictly necessary, they should tell you and motivate it prior to performing it.