[P1]

Is it just me, or is this thing beautiful?

[Wolf 335]

It's a nice looking car.

Still waiting to see it in person.

[mkoesel]

I'd go as far as saying its an attractive car - maybe not all the way to "beautiful".

The problem it has is there's no real performance option. And it's worse than just not being given the right engine. The fact is, VW has completely dropped the ball on developing a contemporary performance engine. The only "upgrade" engine available for VW to use in their MQB vehicles right now is the aging 3.6L VR6, and that would not yield any better performance than the 2.0L TFSI in its higher-tuned state (which is already on offer in the Arteon). Theoretically, the VAG inline 5 used for MQB Audi RS* vehicles would be great, but that's against the corporate doctrine. And there has been talk of a new 3.0L VR6 turbo for years, but given their new push toward electrification, its not clear that will ever see the light of day.

So this is a potentially great car that may never be given what it deserves under the hood.

[Who?]

i think it got outdone by the stinger in both looks and drivability

[roastbeef]

definitely not an audi a7 knockoff.

[domino_z]

if only VW still had that great sounding narrow angle V6 still kicking around

perfect car to build another R36

[El Conquistador]

The front looks like a 2 generation old Accord, the back looks like the awful original Chrysler 200, yet it still looks good.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'd go as far as saying its an attractive car - maybe not all the way to "beautiful".

The problem it has is there's no real performance option. And it's worse than just not being given the right engine. The fact is, VW has completely dropped the ball on developing a contemporary performance engine. The only "upgrade" engine available for VW to use in their MQB vehicles right now is the aging 3.6L VR6, and that would not yield any better performance than the 2.0L TFSI in its higher-tuned state (which is already on offer in the Arteon). Theoretically, the VAG inline 5 used for MQB Audi RS* vehicles would be great, but that's against the corporate doctrine. And there has been talk of a new 3.0L VR6 turbo for years, but given their new push toward electrification, its not clear that will ever see the light of day.

So this is a potentially great car that may never be given what it deserves under the hood.

Just to be clear... which version of the 2.0t are we talking about? If it's the Golf R 300 hp version... that is quite a stout motor...

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ASAP

Just to be clear... which version of the 2.0t are we talking about? If it's the Golf R 300 hp version... that is quite a stout motor...

I'm not sure if it is that same motor - meaning same long block, same turbo configuration, etc. If it is, it is detuned a bit in the Arteon to 280hp. Either way, sure, they could bump it to 300hp or even more, but this car (and really, any large VW, including the Atlas and Passat) deserves a stout turbocharged six cylinder with closer to 400hp. I recall BMW showing the Arteon in concept form last year with the long-rumored 3.0L VR6 turbo, reportedly with 400hp. But it isn't clear right now what the prospects are for production of this engine.

Another possibility for VW is to take a route similar to Volvo with their I4-based T8 PHEV performance drivetrain. However this adds weight, and even with 400hp+, the T8 Volvo products are not matching up well performance-wise to competitors in the same classes with turbocharged 3.0L six cylinder engines. This solution would perhaps be better than nothing, though, and it would probably be more in keeping with VW's goals toward an electrified future.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I'm not sure if it is that same motor - meaning same long block, same turbo configuration, etc. If it is, it is detuned a bit in the Arteon to 280hp. Either way, sure, they could bump it to 300hp or even more, but this car (and really, any large VW, including the Atlas and Passat) deserves a stout turbocharged six cylinder with closer to 400hp. I recall BMW showing the Arteon in concept form last year with the long-rumored 3.0L VR6 turbo, reportedly with 400hp. But it isn't clear right now what the prospects are for production of this engine.

Another possibility for VW is to take a route similar to Volvo with their I4-based T8 PHEV performance drivetrain. However this adds weight, and even with 400hp+, the T8 Volvo products are not matching up well performance-wise to competitors in the same classes with turbo-charged 3.0L six cylinder engines. This solution would perhaps be better than nothing, though, and it would probably be more in keeping with VW's goals to an electrified future.

There is no 400hp VW currently made unless you start taking things from the Audi lineup... the only Audi's that have 400hp are S and Rs models... not sure how you are trying to keep a level hierarchy here. I could only see a 330 hp tune of the R perhaps... Or maybe some sort of 300hp TT6.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by ASAP

There is no 400hp VW currently made unless you start taking things from the Audi lineup...

Well this is true in the US, and perhaps currently in Europe as well, but there certainly have been higher powered engines available in the Touareg and Phaeton in the past. The new Touareg will get the 4.0L diesel soon with more than 400hp, and I imagine the next generation Phaeton will have a similarly powerful drivetrain, although it is rumored to be all electric.

Not that this is all particularly relevant since these models are no longer sold in the US, but since you brought it up and made a generalization, I wanted to follow up with some specifics.

the only Audi's that have 400hp are S and Rs models...

I'm sure you know, but just weren't thinking about it at the moment, that the A8 is available with a V8 that makes more than 400hp. Again, not that that's particularly relevant here, but since you mention it, I thought it was worth being precise.

not sure how you are trying to keep a level hierarchy here.

I'm not and neither is VAG or they wouldn't offer VW models with the same power as or more power than similarly-sized Audi models at much lower prices. Just as the Golf R makes as much power as the S3 (or did, I think the S3 makes a bit more now), an Arteon R could make as much power as the S4 or S5. Now, I'm aware that the S4/S5 don't quite make 400hp yet, but they are likely to get close with their mid cycle updates given that BMW's M340i and Mercedes C43 will both be over 380hp soon.

I could only see a 330 hp tune of the R perhaps... Or maybe some sort of 300hp TT6.

By and large the 300hp six cylinder gasoline engine is obsolescent technology. Contemporary six cylinder passenger car engines are targeting upwards of 350hp to 400hp now, and 500hp is the next horizon (already being touched by a few). Naturally aspirated six cylinder motors are, for the most part, the only ones still being maintained below the 300hp level, and naturally aspirated motors in general are dwindling in numbers.

If VW does indeed go forward with production of the TT VR6, I would virtually guarantee it will exceed 350hp even in its entry level state of tune.

[uniqueMR]

Beautiful

[FriskyDingo]

I think the car looks great, personally.

To all the people complaining about the power or lack of performance models: you guys realize this is a VW and not an Audi right?

[mkoesel]

Since some folks seem to be uninformed about VW's performance intentions, here's some background info on the rumored Arteon R:

https://www.motor1.com/news/224706/v...n-r-turbo-vr6/

The mention of the Stinger GT seems appropriate. Kia might just know something about the market for affordable sport sedans (or fastback lift-backs). Perhaps VW is aware of the same potential market? Let's wait and see - maybe they will find a way to green light a product in this space.

[yco]

nice design with a brave nice color debut..