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      07-14-2020, 04:51 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
Yep. And those brands don't need a crazy amount of sales for them to be happy.
You've written so much sh*t in this thread, hard trying to look like a f*cking luxury automotive expert, unfortunately you're just pathetic always comparing different class models and totally near the subject 😂
Get a life man, and let the real experts to do the math for what is good and what is wrong with a model
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      07-14-2020, 05:04 PM   #134
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well, for the MSRP of these things, think of what else you can buy from the likes of A.Martin, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Much different league at that price point!!
Yep. And those brands don't need a crazy amount of sales for them to be happy.
Those brands cater to a very specific market. BMW, like Mercedes, Audi, etc. caters to a much wider audience. Don't kid yourself, EVERY car company likes sales and relies on them. The more sales they make, the happier the powers who run those companies are.
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      07-14-2020, 05:46 PM   #135
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well, for the MSRP of these things, think of what else you can buy from the likes of A.Martin, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Much different league at that price point!!
You must be smoking something

For comparative $ a loaded M8 equals a base Aston Martin Vantage which is an OK car which a great engine. No match for the M8 on the performance side. Love the look but more in line with an AMG GT, just slower and less capable.
Different league? No...

Bentley has nothing in that price range...

Porsche has the fantastic 992. Awesome car if you like the 911 design and want a sports car. The M8 or 8 series is a GT, so no match.

Porsche also gets pricey and the closest match at this time is a loaded S or 4S. The M8 has no issue competing here on the performance side.
But I wouldn't call Porsche in a different league; just a different type of car.

For non-911's, the Panamera is not better in any way. Even matches the BMW in soft sales and eye watering depreciation
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      07-14-2020, 05:59 PM   #136
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How does the S class coupe sell? I think those look fantastic. And the interior appointments are superb.
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      07-14-2020, 06:01 PM   #137
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How does the S class coupe sell? I think those look fantastic. And the interior appointments are superb.
Not well, its getting the axe as well, although official numbers are unknown as MB groups the sedan and coupes sales numbers together. They are a good CPO buy, one of the most beautiful luxury coupes inside and out on the market. Got to drive one a year ago and fell in love, kind of wish I pulled the trigger on it.
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      07-14-2020, 06:17 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by clemsonkev View Post
well, for the MSRP of these things, think of what else you can buy from the likes of A.Martin, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Much different league at that price point!!
You must be smoking something

For comparative $ a loaded M8 equals a base Aston Martin Vantage which is an OK car which a great engine. No match for the M8 on the performance side. Love the look but more in line with an AMG GT, just slower and less capable.
Different league? No...

Bentley has nothing in that price range...

Porsche has the fantastic 992. Awesome car if you like the 911 design and want a sports car. The M8 or 8 series is a GT, so no match.

Porsche also gets pricey and the closest match at this time is a loaded S or 4S. The M8 has no issue competing here on the performance side.
But I wouldn't call Porsche in a different league; just a different type of car.

For non-911's, the Panamera is not better in any way. Even matches the BMW in soft sales and eye watering depreciation
Thanks for that.
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      07-14-2020, 06:59 PM   #139
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I actually find Aston's new lineup to be very impressive. Their previous gen models became very stale and had pretty mediocre interiors and cabin tech. I think the brand name is too strong to go anywhere, they'll just get bought out.
I just finished a disastrous year in my 2019 Vantage, It was in the shop for 5 months. Dealer support was poor and factory customer service was not much better. It was a great looking car with an amazing exhaust note. The straight line speed was good but the handling was average at best with an overly tail happy rear and problems getting traction off the line.
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      07-14-2020, 07:08 PM   #140
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Those brands cater to a very specific market. BMW, like Mercedes, Audi, etc. caters to a much wider audience. Don't kid yourself, EVERY car company likes sales and relies on them. The more sales they make, the happier the powers who run those companies are.
Who doesn't? Certain companies don't have to sell as many units to be as happy. Ferrari makes $70,000 on every car they sell. They're raking in the moolah. They don't need to sell 56,000 units.
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      07-14-2020, 07:09 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Wolfman64 View Post
You must be smoking something

For comparative $ a loaded M8 equals a base Aston Martin Vantage which is an OK car which a great engine. No match for the M8 on the performance side. Love the look but more in line with an AMG GT, just slower and less capable.
Different league? No...

Bentley has nothing in that price range...

Porsche has the fantastic 992. Awesome car if you like the 911 design and want a sports car. The M8 or 8 series is a GT, so no match.

Porsche also gets pricey and the closest match at this time is a loaded S or 4S. The M8 has no issue competing here on the performance side.
But I wouldn't call Porsche in a different league; just a different type of car.

For non-911's, the Panamera is not better in any way. Even matches the BMW in soft sales and eye watering depreciation
I think people who buy an Aston have different priorities compared to someone that buys a 911. Again, Porsche has no issues selling $130,000 Cayenne's, 911's, Macan's, or Panameras. The 8 series is just sitting on lots. :shrug: I would absolutely say Porsche is in a different league compared to BMW.
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      07-14-2020, 09:36 PM   #142
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Thank god. I've got a 2020 Marina Bay Blue Coupe that's been collecting dust at my store! Maybe this will help me move it
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      07-14-2020, 09:58 PM   #143
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BMW just told us that there won't be a 2021 M8 Coupe or Convertible for the US.
A little silver lining for me, my F80 lease is up in March, and I'm not excited about the G8X styling, so if the coupes really arent selling that well, a 20+% discount will certainly help me justify stepping up and getting a leftover MY2020.
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      07-14-2020, 10:22 PM   #144
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If BMW priced this car just a bit over the M5 and branded it a M6 it would have done better. BMW definitely overreached with the M8. Too many better cars in this price range. But I give them credit for trying.
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      07-14-2020, 10:45 PM   #145
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....
P.S. It doesn't help that SUV's are taking over. I think 48% of BMW USA sales last year were SUV's.
Well.. "officially" it was closer to 49%... except, the X1 and X2 are counted as cars....

Now if you count them as SUVs... wait for it...

58% of BMW sales were SUVs (X1, X2, X3, X4, X5, X6, X7).

Taking over? Na, they own it
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      07-14-2020, 11:45 PM   #146
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define better? i have read so many post about people thinking the m8 is not something special without even having enough seat time to justify the comment

everything in this price range has something going for it. the m8 is a well rounded machine. people forget that BMW is to be leased not purchased. so forget about the msrp. look at what you can lease for the same payment and you will find very little competitors

if you have read my other post i was all in for a m5. didnít want another bmw as the last two cars were Mís and wanted to try something different. when i finalized my m5 deal i was 1350 a month. i crossed shopped what i really wanted an e63s but there were looking at over 2k a month. sticker was within 1000 from each other. the cars were too similar to justify the difference in payment. a rs5 sport back had a 1200 payment with a 30k difference in sticker. you get a lot of car with BMW aggressive leases


i can comment that BMW made a mistake producing too many M8s. they should of kept production limited. you see more m8ís on the dealer lot than the streets. i have yet seen another m8 on the streets. seen one m850
but thatís it. the demand for the 8 will increase as they are no longer producing 2021. assuming pricing will also stabilize. simple supply and demand

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If BMW priced this car just a bit over the M5 and branded it a M6 it would have done better. BMW definitely overreached with the M8. Too many better cars in this price range. But I give them credit for trying.
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      07-14-2020, 11:46 PM   #147
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define better? i have read so many post about people thinking the m8 is not something special without even having enough seat time to justify the comment

everything in this price range has something going for it. the m8 is a well rounded machine. people forget that BMW is to be leased not purchased. so forget about the msrp. look at what you can lease for the same payment and you will find very little competitors

if you have read my other post i was all in for a m5. didn’t want another bmw as the last two cars were M’s and wanted to try something different. when i finalized my m5 deal i was 1350 a month. i crossed shopped what i really wanted an e63s but there were looking at over 2k a month. sticker was within 1000 from each other. the cars were too similar to justify the difference in payment. a rs5 sport back had a 1200 payment with a 30k difference in sticker. you get a lot of car with BMW aggressive leases


i can comment that BMW made a mistake producing too many M8s. they should of kept production limited. you see more m8’s on the dealer lot than the streets. i have yet seen another m8 on the streets. seen one m850
but that’s it. the demand for the 8 will increase as they are no longer producing 2021. assuming pricing will also stabilize. simple supply and demand

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Originally Posted by phoenixbmwlife View Post
If BMW priced this car just a bit over the M5 and branded it a M6 it would have done better. BMW definitely overreached with the M8. Too many better cars in this price range. But I give them credit for trying.
Sales
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      07-15-2020, 02:15 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
I think people who buy an Aston have different priorities compared to someone that buys a 911. Again, Porsche has no issues selling $130,000 Cayenne's, 911's, Macan's, or Panameras. The 8 series is just sitting on lots. :shrug: I would absolutely say Porsche is in a different league compared to BMW.
Don’t think so...
Porsche makes it’s money with SUV’s just like anyone else on a larger scale. So, yes, they have no problems selling Cayennes, just like MB is selling their AMG SUV’s and likely BMW theirs.
As for Panameras, you are mistaken. Sales are very soft on this car and discounts easily equal BMW’s... They carry few of them and those don’t move.

The 911’s are a standout in non-SUV sales because they have a decades old following and it’s a great car that keeps on getting better.

The biggest reason I see for all these 8 series sitting around is BMW’s stupidity to load up their dealers with a lot of inventory of some of their most expensive cars.
MB on the other hand has been very careful of keeping their AMG inventory low and it pays off. One exception were the GT 4 door models. Guess what happened there...

As for Astons, they had been aggressively pushing low price leases on these cars. At one point in time you could get a Vantage for $1300 a month (low mileage though)

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      07-15-2020, 03:15 AM   #149
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Don’t think so...
Porsche makes it’s money with SUV’s just like anyone else on a larger scale. So, yes, they have no problems selling Cayennes, just like MB is selling their AMG SUV’s and likely BMW theirs.
As for Panameras, you are mistaken. Sales are very soft on this car and discounts easily equal BMW’s... They carry few of them and those don’t move.

The 911’s are a standout in non-SUV sales because they have a decades old following and it’s a great car that keeps on getting better.

The biggest reason I see for all these 8 series sitting around is BMW’s stupidity to load up their dealers with a lot of inventory of some of their most expensive cars.
MB on the other hand has been very careful of keeping their AMG inventory low and it pays off. One exception were the GT 4 door models. Guess what happened there...

As for Astons, they had been aggressively pushing low price leases on these cars. At one point in time you could get a Vantage for $1300 a month (low mileage though)
I think you missed the point I was making. People are more willing to pay the extra money for a Porsche even if it's an SUV over the BMW Or Mercedes counterpart which goes back to what I originally said - every manufacturer has a price point.

The 911 is a standout not because it has a following. If Porsche depended solely on it's 'following', the 911 would cease to exist in today's market. You buy a 911 because of the "experience". Nobody is buying a 911 as a family car and the majority of people don't have the money to just plop down on a car that's $100,000+ as a secondary car. The fact that Porsche is STILL pumping out cars like the GT3 should tell you something.

The biggest reason that 8 series are sitting on dealer lots is because BMW priced itself out of it's market and doesn't really offer anything special. Why would I get an M850? Because it has two doors? I'll just get an M550 and save myself thousands. M8 Competition? The M5 Comp is the exact same car with four doors. When you play in that price range, people want something special, something that stands out.

I can walk into ANY BMW dealer and get anywhere from 7% to 10% off ANY standard model. Same with any Audi or MB. Walk into a Porsche dealership and ask for that on a Panamera. They'll laugh at you on the way out.

Not sure why we're discussing Aston here because that's not even comparable to any of the brands discussed other than Porsche. COVID has caused a bit of trouble for Aston though. They were saved by an investment from a Dubai firm.
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      07-15-2020, 03:17 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by Ehloo View Post
define better? i have read so many post about people thinking the m8 is not something special without even having enough seat time to justify the comment

everything in this price range has something going for it. the m8 is a well rounded machine. people forget that BMW is to be leased not purchased. so forget about the msrp. look at what you can lease for the same payment and you will find very little competitors

if you have read my other post i was all in for a m5. didn’t want another bmw as the last two cars were M’s and wanted to try something different. when i finalized my m5 deal i was 1350 a month. i crossed shopped what i really wanted an e63s but there were looking at over 2k a month. sticker was within 1000 from each other. the cars were too similar to justify the difference in payment. a rs5 sport back had a 1200 payment with a 30k difference in sticker. you get a lot of car with BMW aggressive leases


i can comment that BMW made a mistake producing too many M8s. they should of kept production limited. you see more m8’s on the dealer lot than the streets. i have yet seen another m8 on the streets. seen one m850
but that’s it. the demand for the 8 will increase as they are no longer producing 2021. assuming pricing will also stabilize. simple supply and demand
At the price point of an M8, people don't want well rounded or rationale. Spending $150,000 on a car is not rationale.

You not seeing any M8's on the street is the problem. BMW isn't moving them enough, hence the production shutdown. Demand for the car will not increase because because production shuts down. Just because supply will be lower and the cars will be harder to find doesn't mean demand has increased. It just means the people that wanted them originally can't get them.
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      07-15-2020, 05:45 AM   #151
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Donít think so...
Porsche makes itís money with SUVís just like anyone else on a larger scale. So, yes, they have no problems selling Cayennes, just like MB is selling their AMG SUVís and likely BMW theirs. As for Panameras, you are mistaken. Sales are very soft on this car and discounts easily equal BMWís... They carry few of them and those donít move.

The 911ís are a standout in non-SUV sales because they have a decades old following and itís a great car that keeps on getting better.
Simple market dynamics are much more efficient than most people give it credit for.

Porsche doesn't sell 911s because of a loyal following. It sells 911s because it's a better car. I've been driving 911s for over 20 years (and BMWs for over 35 years) and there is no more perfect blend of GT, sports car, technology and DD reliability on the market. The M8 is just a bloated GT. There's simply nothing special about it at a $150k+ price tag. The only reason to buy a M8 over a 911 is to fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk. btw - that's a real market, just a very niche one.

The Panamera doesn't sell well for the same reason. There's simply nothing special about it to justify a $30k premium over an M5.

As I say, the market is very efficient. It's not complicated.
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      07-15-2020, 09:34 AM   #152
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I'm going to go out on a limb here (and probably fall of the tree), but to me, the cars need a sunroof. Inside they are dark and claustrophobic. You can argue all about weight up top and all, but let's be serious, this is a really heavy "grand touring" car more than a 911. Give the old men what they want...

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      07-15-2020, 10:07 AM   #153
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Am I the only one that thinks BMW interiors are just not up to par with Audi, Porsche and Benz... I like the analog dials so much better...Esp at 135K+?
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      07-15-2020, 10:29 AM   #154
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The only reason to buy a M8 over a 911 is to fit a set of golf clubs in the trunk. btw - that's a real market, just a very niche one.
This was actually the factor that drove my decision to move from my 991 TT to the M8 convertible. Both cars are fun - just different.
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