[hellrotm]

Read this thing will be loaded Cayman S price or even base 911 price. If so, not worth it in my opinion.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3

I find this hilarious. You chastise someone for complaining about the vent tubing in the engine bay and say its justifiable because this is a "race car", yet you then complain about the interior of a Lotus and say how the interior quality Alfa is far better. Or how much better the alfa MPG is versus the lotus, or even how hard it is to get in a lotus. But I thought this was a race car? Who cares about interior quality, vent tubing, or MPG right?

You can try to justify the car all you want, but this is far from a race car.

First of all, you should ask yourself why F1 is going back to low displacement (1.6 L) turbocharged engines in 2014... then you will realize that the Alfa 4C already has a low displacement (1750cc) turbocharged engine.

Then, you can go even further and take the oportunity to watch the 24H of Le Mans this weekend and try to understand why the overall & LMP1 class winner, which most probably will be the Audi e-tron quattro, not only uses a diesel engine but combines it with hybrid-power delivered to the front wheels by an electric motor... then you will realize that MPG is crucial for an endurance race.

Finally, if you try to find two aspects common to the cars in each of these two race categories that represent the very pinnacles of car racing... then you will realize that both cars use carbon fiber monocoques, for the ultimate rigidity and lightweight chassis, AND that both cars have rear mid-engine layout.

Needless to say that the Alfa 4C has both a carbon fiber monocoque and a rear mid-engine as well, also the Alfa 4C has such low weight and weight to power ratio that it is capable of generating 0-62mph acceleration time of 4.5 seconds, 1.1 of lateral g on corners and 1.25 g of maximum braking deceleration all on street tires, add to that a non-power assisted steering of any kind and it's undeniably that we are in the presence of a race car.

As for the interior plastics, well... they are only needed to bring all that race DNA from the track to the street and make it livable on a daily basis - getting in and out of the car in an easy way is only a necessary part of that experience, engine 'vent tubing' appearance is not.

Lotus is an example of a brand that always pursued that goal throughout the years... that's its great legacy even when they don't succeed:

[keepittrill]

Yet lotus is about to die. Bravo, Lotus! Bravo! And if every car with a decent 0-60 is a race car, then we've really let the standards down on the term "race car"

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by keepittrill

Yet lotus is about to die. Bravo, Lotus! Bravo!

Lotus is about to die precisely because their cars don't have the necessary plastics, the necessary room, the necessary comfort and, ultimately, the necessary practicality for you to live with it on a daily basis.

The Alfa Romeo 4C can offer all of that without sacrifice weight and therefore performance and more importantly driver enjoyment mainly because it has an ultra lightweight carbon fiber monocoque and only the absolute MINIMUM goodies necessary to make it livable day in, day out. The end result is an amazing and much more accomplished car than a Lotus at Lotus prices!

BTW, for me high MPG makes always part of the driver enjoyment for obvious reasons...

Originally Posted by keepittrill

And if every car with a decent 0-60 is a race car, then we've really let the standards down on the term "race car"

You either don't know how to read or you just don't want to...




.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Stohlen

No, Auburn Hills. That is a mule. Mules mean very little in terms of how close a car is to production. You can see them years before launch in some cases, and still see them after launch... I see 4C mules daily, probably have seen that one, but I can't say because I cant read the plate.

The cars i deal with are much more production ready testing actual customer usage. When those arrive you know launch is getting close and usually get a date.

Stohlen,

Since Alfa Romeo will be using US Maserati dealers network to make the Alfa 4C available to customers, are you saying that the Alfa 4C, and any Maserati or even Ferrari for that matter, which are both produced outside the US in Italy come first to the Chrysler's Auburn Hills facility before they are dispatched to the dealers rooms?


Anyway, I believe the Alfa 4C will be available to US customers shortly after this year's LA Auto Show.

[Stohlen]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Stohlen,

Since Alfa Romeo will be using US Maserati dealers network to make the Alfa 4C available to customers, are you saying that the Alfa 4C, and any Maserati or even Ferrari for that matter, which are both produced outside the US in Italy come first to the Chrysler's Auburn Hills facility before they are dispatched to the dealers rooms?


Anyway, I believe the Alfa 4C will be available to US customers shortly after this year's LA Auto Show.

Ummm no, thats not at all what i'm saying.... I'm not really sure how you even jumped to that conclusion.

I'm saying that I will recieve 4c vehicles around 6 months prior to launch for the testing I do on them. And I haven't even begun that program yet. Around the time that I receive them they'll release a launch date, because my testing relys on it, and I'll have more or less 6 months to get it done.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Stohlen

Ummm no, thats not at all what i'm saying.... I'm not really sure how you even jumped to that conclusion.

I'm saying that I will recieve 4c vehicles around 6 months prior to launch for the testing I do on them. And I haven't even begun that program yet. Around the time that I receive them they'll release a launch date, because my testing relys on it, and I'll have more or less 6 months to get it done.

Stohlen,

First of all thank you for clarifying it to me. My questions are simple:

Why is Chrysler's Auburn Hills facility personnel, to which you belong, responsible for testing, prior to launch in the US, a car like the Alfa 4C which is produced in Italy at Modena's Maserati plant? Does this only happen in the case of the Alfa 4C or is it also true for the Maserati models? Where are the Maserati or the Ferrari cars tested prior to launch in the US?

The reason I ask is due to the fact that Alfa Romeo, Maserati and Ferrari they all belong to the group Fiat S.p.A and Chrysler is a subsidiary of the italian automaker.

[BMW269]

4C will be sold by Fiat dealers, not Ferrari/maserati dealers.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

4C will be sold by Fiat dealers, not Ferrari/maserati dealers.

All I know is that the Alfa Romeo 8C was sold in the United States by Maserati dealers.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

All I know is that the Alfa Romeo 8C was sold in the United States by Maserati dealers.

Won't be the case of 4C.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by Levi

Won't be the case of 4C.

Yes, it seems so.

[GoingTooFast]

I want one...

[Stohlen]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

Why is Chrysler's Auburn Hills facility personnel, to which you belong, responsible for testing, prior to launch in the US, a car like the Alfa 4C which is produced in Italy at Modena's Maserati plant? Does this only happen in the case of the Alfa 4C or is it also true for the Maserati models? Where are the Maserati or the Ferrari cars tested prior to launch in the US?

U.S. spec cars are very different than cars made for europe. We have completely different crash testing standards as well as different needs and expectations for software in the car. U.S. safety and DOT standards must be met which means hundreds of new parts specifically for the U.S. market, as well as completely new software not only with the english language included but special calibrations for the U.S. as well. Depending on the car, some recieve more testing than others, but all of them recieve significant durability and reliability testing here in the states.

Many of the suppliers are located locally here for these parts, and it makes it much easier to work with them when testing is done locally. In addition, I test these vehicles on real public roads in various U.S. locations. We do this specifically to look for problems Americans might see with their cars as a result of our roads, climates, and driving styles. General reliability testing and customer feedback is also done at the same time, by american individuals.

[GoingTooFast]

Yes Stohlen, I understand that. Thank you for sharing.

[Red Bread]

Cool information Stohlen, thanks for sharing.

[GoingTooFast]

Why MPG matters :


TALKING ABOUT A REVOLUTION....


ENGINE....................... RS27-2013................................... ENERGY F1-2014
Displacement.................... 2.4l.............................................. ........1.6l
Rev limit .......................18,000rpm.................. .........................15,000rpm
Pressure charging..... Normally aspirated....................... Single turbocharger, unlimited boost pressure (typical maximum 3.5 bar abs due to fuel flow limit)
Fuel flow limit............ Unlimited, but typically 170 kg/h............ 100 kg/h (-40%)
Permitted Fuel
quantity per race....... Unlimited, but typically 160 kg................ 100 kg (-35%)
Configuration.................... 90° V8................................................ 90° V6
Number of cylinders............. 8................................................. ........ 6
Bore................................... Max 98mm........................................ 80mm
Stroke................................ Not regulated.................................... 53mm
Crank height...................... Min 58mm........................................ 90mm
Number of valves ............. 4 per cylinder, 32.............................. 4 per cylinder, 24
Exhausts.....Twin exhaust outlets, one per bank of cylinders... Single exhaust outlet, from turbine on car centre line
Fuel............................. Indirect fuel injection..................... Direct fuel injection

The complete engine unit for 2014 will be heavier than the current design, as director of programmes and customer support Axel Plasse explained:

“The current V8 is 95kg, 100kg if you add the weight of the MGU. This increases to 120kg when you include the ancillary parts, such as the radiators and other cooling devices. With the 2014 power unit, the V6 turbocharged engine will be a minimum of 145kg, plus 35kg for the battery. At 180kg, this is a 80% increase over the current units, plus a further 20kg for the ancillaries such as the intercooler and other radiators.

Rob White, Deputy Managing Director (technical) comments on the sounds of the new V6 turbo Power Unit:

‘‘The sound of the engine is the sum of three principal components, exhaust, intake and mechanical noise. On fired engines, exhaust noise dominates, but the other two sources are not trivial and would be loud if the exhaust noise was suppressed and contribute to the perceived sound of the engines in the car.

All three sources are still present on the V6. At the outset, there is more energy in each combustion event but there are fewer cylinders turning at lower speed and both intake and exhaust noise are attenuated by the turbo. Overall, the sound pressure level (so the perceived volume) is lower and the nature of the sound reflects the new architecture.

The car will still accelerate and decelerate rapidly, with instant gearshifts. The engines remain high revving, ultra high output competition engines. Fundamentally the engine noise will still be loud. It will wake you from sleep, and circuit neighbours will still complain. The engine noise is just a turbocharged noise rather than a normally aspirated noise: you can just hear the turbo when the driver lifts off the throttle and the engine speed drops.

I am sure some people will be nostalgic for the sound of engines from previous eras, including the preceding V8, but the sound of the new generation Power Units is just different. It’s like asking whether you like Motorhead or AC/DC. Ultimately it is a matter of personal taste. Both in concert are still pretty loud.’’

[BMW269]

Before that there is tha 1.6l I4 500 PS 10.000 RPM powering the Jaguar Hypercar.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

I want one...

Aww man it looks a little too girly/feminine if you ask me.

[GoingTooFast]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Aww man it looks a little too girly/feminine if you ask me.

I think it's just beautiful, but don't you worry it drives like a real man...

'Does the 4C have a competitor?' Louis-Carl Vignon says. 'Honestly, no. There is simply nothing else on the market as innovative or that uses this technology and that is available at this price [approx £50k]. This is a laboratory car for us, and there is no doubt that we will see an extension of what we learn here into other Alfa Romeos. The best part of driving is finding a series of curves. I respect the Bugatti Veyron, but I doubt that a Veyron driver would be able to keep pace with the 4C on a good mountain road.'

[GoingTooFast]

Caterham's new sports car, co-developed with Renault and targetted at the Lotus Evora and Alfa Romeo 4C, will likely be unveiled in concept form in the first half of next year, Autocar has learned.

[johanness]

Originally Posted by GoingTooFast

don't you worry it drives like a real man...

Like you'd know anything about being a 'real man'. Your opinions should stick solely to your waste-of-time-thread that no one cares about. Quit polluting things with your obvious Google-based 'knowledge'. Jerking off in your parents basement to fast cars while u fake your 1M ownership doesn't count here or anywhere.

/rant

PS: What's the difference between Kobayashi and you? One has no place in F1, while the other has zero friends.

[GoingTooFast]

Haters Gonna Hate