[Andycam]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

I need your expertise with a couple of questions...

I took delivery of my car in the wintertime so asked the dealer to deliver it with the winter wheels fitted, and have the factory-original summer wheels stored for the season. Then, in the spring when the summer wheels came on, I noticed a vibration in the car that I hadn't felt on my winter wheels. It did not feel like when a wheel is unbalanced, but the dealer claimed that was the case and not until they had re-balanced the wheels and the problem persisted did they acknowledge that the right rear did in fact have a flat spot (the car had been sitting in the showroom for a long time). Therefore I needed a new right rear tyre.

Q1: At time of replacement, the summer tires had run ~2.200 miles/3.500 km. The dealer said all four tires had to be replaced, as the tread depth between the new and old tyres could be a few millimetres and xDrive is very sensitive to differences both on-axle and especially between the axels. Can this really be the case?? Mm-level?

The dealer took the cost for replacing all four tyres so it's not my (current) problem, but it seems absurd. It's not a stretch to think that front tires would wear differently than rears, or even left-right depending on circumstances (say that I accelerate very carefully all the time, but always brake like I'm racing). Would you then actually run a risk of mechanically damaging the car because you don't wear your tyres evenly? This sounds so far-fetched to my non-mechanic ears.

Then, even though the dealer sold the car to me, they asked me what tyres were originally fitted so they could order identical replacements. I gave them the dimensions, the make and model (Pirelli PZero), that they were of course *-marked and that they were RFTs. I sent actuall sidewall pictures of all this to them as well. And today, when I go there to change, the replacements are indeed PZeros but not RFTs and not *-marked, just vanilla PZeros.

As this process has now dragged out for forever I am leaving for a long road trip already tomorrow and have absolutely no chance at all getting this sorted before I leave.

Many would say "be glad for getting rid of RFTs" but my experience with punctures has led me to prefer RFTs so that's a big bummer for me. What bugs me even more is that they are not *-marked BMW OEM. I've had several BMW dealers tell me "using non-* may cause warranty problems" if something happens.

Q2: Are you aware of anyone that's had issues with repairs or warranties because they were running non-* tyres?

And lastly Q3: Are there any differences between *-marked and non *-marked tyres of the same brand/model/dimension? Meaning, should I actually be worried that I am putting myself or my passenger at risk, or that I run a risk of damaging the car? I should add there will be extensive vMax-driving on this road trip so I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks for your input and views.

[gkgeiger]

I would ask a tire professional instead of an Internet forum.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Andycam

I need your expertise with a couple of questions...

I took delivery of my car in the wintertime so asked the dealer to deliver it with the winter wheels fitted, and have the factory-original summer wheels stored for the season. Then, in the spring when the summer wheels came on, I noticed a vibration in the car that I hadn't felt on my winter wheels. It did not feel like when a wheel is unbalanced, but the dealer claimed that was the case and not until they had re-balanced the wheels and the problem persisted did they acknowledge that the right rear did in fact have a flat spot (the car had been sitting in the showroom for a long time). Therefore I needed a new right rear tyre.

Q1: At time of replacement, the summer tires had run ~2.200 miles/3.500 km. The dealer said all four tires had to be replaced, as the tread depth between the new and old tyres could be a few millimetres and xDrive is very sensitive to differences both on-axle and especially between the axels. Can this really be the case?? Mm-level?

The dealer took the cost for replacing all four tyres so it's not my (current) problem, but it seems absurd. It's not a stretch to think that front tires would wear differently than rears, or even left-right depending on circumstances (say that I accelerate very carefully all the time, but always brake like I'm racing). Would you then actually run a risk of mechanically damaging the car because you don't wear your tyres evenly? This sounds so far-fetched to my non-mechanic ears.

Then, even though the dealer sold the car to me, they asked me what tyres were originally fitted so they could order identical replacements. I gave them the dimensions, the make and model (Pirelli PZero), that they were of course *-marked and that they were RFTs. I sent actuall sidewall pictures of all this to them as well. And today, when I go there to change, the replacements are indeed PZeros but not RFTs and not *-marked, just vanilla PZeros.

As this process has now dragged out for forever I am leaving for a long road trip already tomorrow and have absolutely no chance at all getting this sorted before I leave.

Many would say "be glad for getting rid of RFTs" but my experience with punctures has led me to prefer RFTs so that's a big bummer for me. What bugs me even more is that they are not *-marked BMW OEM. I've had several BMW dealers tell me "using non-* may cause warranty problems" if something happens.

Q2: Are you aware of anyone that's had issues with repairs or warranties because they were running non-* tyres?

And lastly Q3: Are there any differences between *-marked and non *-marked tyres of the same brand/model/dimension? Meaning, should I actually be worried that I am putting myself or my passenger at risk, or that I run a risk of damaging the car? I should add there will be extensive vMax-driving on this road trip so I don't want to take any chances.

Thanks for your input and views.

Yes and yes and yes. But it's very minor.

Question 1: technically yes, every all wheel drive car from a Subaru to Mercedes is supposed to replace all 4 when worn because of the new all wheel drive systems. It's "ideal" if you can replace all 4 at the same time.

However, no it won't dramatically change the suspension unless your at a race track. Keep it straight, level and under 100 mph; and having 4 different tires won't destroy the BMW.

Tires do "wear" at different rates, however it's usually even. Even with hard braking like you said - you might have 4 mm in the front and 7 mm in the rears. A new tire might be 10 mm. So running a 5 mm, 4 mm, 7 mm with a new 10 mm
Might be enough to throw some error codes and change the handling slightly. But it's mainly grip and not enough to destroy your drivetrain.

Q2: BMW has the right to refuse services if they can prove it was your modification that caused the problem. For example, wheel spacers or different size tries.
However, I'm this case it sounds like it was BMW themselves that changed your tires. And they used the same tire, just non run flat.
Which again should be 100% fine.

Q3: Yes. But all bmw cars come with different tires, some Bridgestone, some Michelin, some PZero. All the OEM are built for the model car. For example, your PZero are designed for the m8 and are slightly different than the non star OEM ones.

There is a post and a video somewhere that shows the difference. Again it's slight but it's real. And again, it's still mostly the same and you're probably 100% safe either way.

There should be no risk to you, passenger or the car. Especially on a normal trip. Max speed should be limited by the computer based on your tires.
As long as it's not going to a track, you're probably fine.

[Resjudicata]

I think this is the video:

.

[Andycam]

Originally Posted by gkgeiger

I would ask a tire professional instead of an Internet forum.

True, but they all give differing answers and I have a high level of respect and trust in the people and knowledge here The other reply explained better than what I've heard from both tyre dealer and BMW.

[gkgeiger]

Originally Posted by Andycam

True, but they all give differing answers and I have a high level of respect and trust in the people and knowledge here The other reply explained better than what I've heard from both tyre dealer and BMW.

Understood, I guess I'm lucky to have friends in the tire business, retail and manufacturing. I agree on the other reply, he seems to know his stuff.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I think this is the video:

.

I absolutely love bimmerpost as it contains a wealth of knowledge with it all starting prepping to by my wife's X5 back in 2017. Obviously, I spent a lot of time on the 8-series forum even prior to purchasing the M850i and continue to interact daily due to the wealth of knowledge.

This thread just is a great example as I had no clue that the OEM-* even existed. To my surprise and somewhat disappointment my run flat PZero's are of the * type. I thought perhaps they may only make it on the M8s but looks like the M850i varients as well. Not too much disappointment as barring unforeseen circumstances the set that came on the M850i will easily see it through the 3-year lease and should be within tread spec for the return.

However, for the planned custom order for a 2023 replacement I now know that for it I'll need to ensure the *'s are on the vehicle throughout the warranty. Since I'm planning to buy that one out then post warranty I can go with the non-* version through Tire Rack and avoid the BMW dealer cost on the *'s.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

I absolutely love bimmerpost as it contains a wealth of knowledge with it all starting prepping to by my wife's X5 back in 2017. Obviously, I spent a lot of time on the 8-series forum even prior to purchasing the M850i and continue to interact daily due to the wealth of knowledge.

This thread just is a great example as I had no clue that the OEM-* even existed. To my surprise and somewhat disappointment my run flat PZero's are of the * type. I thought perhaps they may only make it on the M8s but looks like the M850i varients as well. Not too much disappointment as barring unforeseen circumstances the set that came on the M850i will easily see it through the 3-year lease and should be within tread spec for the return.

However, for the planned custom order for a 2023 replacement I now know that for it I'll need to ensure the *'s are on the vehicle throughout the warranty. Since I'm planning to buy that one out then post warranty I can go with the non-* version through Tire Rack and avoid the BMW dealer cost on the *'s.

I have the same PZERO * ones, it's better performance but a bit more expensive.

[Thrangster]

somewhat related, on my new M850 order my dealer said he would check if I can have non RF factory installed instead of the RF... didn't know this was possibly possible... I haven't started production yet...

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Thrangster

somewhat related, on my new M850 order my dealer said he would check if I can have non RF factory installed instead of the RF... didn't know this was possibly possible... I haven't started production yet...

Once it's built and in shipping, you can definitely see what's installed in Germany long before it gets to the USA.
However I'm not sure if you can tell pre production. Probably based on manufacturing date.
Sounds possible, but idk.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Thrangster

somewhat related, on my new M850 order my dealer said he would check if I can have non RF factory installed instead of the RF... didn't know this was possibly possible... I haven't started production yet...

I wish you the best of luck but based on my custom ordered 2020 M850i coupe I'd say the answer will be "no". BMW doesn't offer much flexibility when it comes to off the menu ala In-N-Out burger style ordering. Sure they have all the ingredients but BMW definitely appears to stick to the menu.

In my case I wanted the new for 2020 Ash Black Silver Wood trim that is an option for the 840i. The 840i and M850i's are built on the same line (unlike the M8s) and the consoles are identical so there is no question the trim for the 840i would work in my m850i. My CA ran it all the way up the flagpole to BMW NA, etc. but the answer was "no". Which is absurd in some regards as the MSRP on my M850i build was ~128K vs the highest optioned 840i 10s of thousands less.

In your case the non-RF's definitely exist but they are tied to the Cooling and High Performance Tire Package. What is interesting is that used to be an option for the M850i verts but with the 2022s it is not and only on the 2022 coupes. So it's not looking good whatsoever that you will be able to order off the menu.

[LaVitaEBella]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I think this is the video:

.

This is indeed an informative video thanks for sharing it with the community.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by LaVitaEBella

This is indeed an informative video thanks for sharing it with the community.

Every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut!!!!

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I have the same PZERO * ones, it's better performance but a bit more expensive.

Out of curiosity I checked Tire Rack (have used them for years back to when it used to be phone only and they published their "catalog" in the back of Car and Driver magazines). To my surprise they have both the standard and * versions with the * being ~$50 more per tire. Guaranteed though buying through a BMW dealer will be way more.