[Chai Five]

M8 folks,
Im posting here becuase I am an M8 comp leasee and everyone here is quite bright. I also posted the below in the X7 forum. Just looking for help and ideas.


Hello members. I need advice. Im sorry to share that Arrowhead BMW in Glendale Arizona has reneged on a deal in the most disgusting fashion. I am hoping our community can guide me in some positive direction to complete the deal or help me get a "pound of flesh."

Story:

I Placed a 5k deposit for an X7 M50i order with the dealership for a car to be made to my specs several weeks ago. The financial terms were quite beneficial to me. As good or better than any deal currently available for this model. (Yes, I have the order paperwork in case anyone is curious) Order was built and delivered to the dealer this past week. (I currently am a BMW customer. But I did not acquire my current leased 2020 M8comp coupe from this particular dealership) The sales guy sent me pics of the vehicle pre-pdi. They took my credit app and approved me for BMW Financing. The next day they say I cant take possession of the car, and ship the car, until the check clears from BMW Financial, which is several days after I sign the documents. 30 minutes later they cancel the deal and refund my CC because Im out of state and dont want to sell me the car because Im an Oregon resident who does not need to pay sales tax. Yes the car was going to be shipped to Oregon. I did not hide the fact I was an Oregon Resident. I provided my insurance and Drivers License to the dealership in order to purchase the vehicle when I ordered it.... and yes they knew it was going to be shipped upon order and again when it came in.

I originally negotiated great financial terms of the deal with the prior GSM of the dealership who has now moved up in the company and is in the process of opening a Jaguar LAndRover dealership down the street from the BMW store. I contacted him and he said he would look into it next week because he is out of town this weekend.

Folks, I believe they are not contractually bound to sell me the car, at least I dont think they are. However this is slimy, unprofessional, ugly behavior. IT feels to me they are just screwing me because they can make more money from another buyer.

Options for resolution:

Complain to BMW corporate. Anyone have any ideas which Executive at BMW corporate I could contact that can actually make something happen?

Turn to social media and share my experience.


Any more suggestions you guys have would be more than welcome!

Thanks a ton for reading this and helping with any input!

[unfoundnemo]

Seem like some odd or lazy excuses on their part. I would imagine there's something else going on they don't want to share.

Just conjecture, but possible it was a fairly honest mistake to begin with, they may have accidentally sold it out from under you, delayed until the other deal was finalized, then decided to cut ties since it wasn't too attractive of a deal to them to begin with. Also possible the car was damaged in their possession, thought about fixing it, then realized how much a refused delivery would cost if they had to ship it back.

Regardless, I can't think of much BMWNA would do, there are tons of deals that likely fall through from the dealer end, and you already got the deposit back. Maybe they'll help broker a new deal at a different dealer on a new build, but if this dealer does still have this car, I'd question if you really want it. I'm sure it varies state by state, but in mine, damage to a new car doesn't have to be disclosed if the repairs are less than like 2% of the MSRP. With prior damage even being a possibility, I'd run.

[fl650]

BMW North America is unlikely to get involved to any meaningful extent. Each dealership is an independent franchise, and BMW will likely tell you that they have no control over an individual dealer's business practices. Memorializing your experience through forums like this will have a lasting impact. Long term, it's in the dealer's interest to turn things around. This forum will always be here for future buyers to read.

[RJC-1]

Still report it to bmw USA, if they collect enough complaints they do take action, and it also affects the dealership's brownie points. Also hit them on Yelp, file a case with the BBB etc. and your state's business division of consumer affairs.

[Amgeater2]

To the 2 previous post saying that BMW will not get involve its not true, infact I had a situation where the deal was out state as well, but the dealer just had horrible customer service and my car ended up arriving to them almost 2-3 weeks later (their fault and I was able to prove it) after all the paperwork was done and processs (meaning my period/payments had already started)

Call BMWNA and BMW financial services and ask to make a full complain they will guide you in the right direction, in my case they send me a full refund of my first lease payment and a bag full of gifts (key change, money/card holder, 2 hats, the M tag holder and $250 towards driving school) so please do complain on these type of matters as they do care about us the customers (oh and also they had the main manager of the dealer call me and apologize after almost a week of voice mails and emails to him without any response) but I do tell you something that may my case very clear and easy for them and it was the proof of all the emails and screen shots of messages that I had to valide and make the story more concrete on my side.. any how Good Luck !!

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by fl650

BMW North America is unlikely to get involved to any meaningful extent. Each dealership is an independent franchise, and BMW will likely tell you that they have no control over an individual dealer's business practices. Memorializing your experience through forums like this will have a lasting impact. Long term, it's in the dealer's interest to turn things around. This forum will always be here for future buyers to read.

I have to agree here- The dealer has the right to sell to who and where and when. They might not have an out of state policy which was initially missed so while it its frustrating its not binding.

BMWNA getting involved at a situational level vs a trend isnt happening IMHO. I do feel the tax excuse on their part was bullshit though as they remit taxes either way to the State (in AZ) so who cares if you dont pay tax where you live.

[c^2]

100% report it to BMW customer relations. Franchise-owned it may be, but the regionals can come in and do something. If you've had multiple BMWs in general, highly likely they will do something to make things right from my experience

[Chai Five]

Good evening all. Get your popcorn, here is an update...

Just when you think it cant get worse.... How bout some salt for your wounds???

I reached out to the ex-GSM of Arrowhead BMW over the weekend when this occurred. He is the gentleman who sold me the car and took my deposit. I am, for all intents and purposes, his client. Since that time, he was promoted within the organization to become the GM of the Land Rover/Jaguar dealership down the street from BMW. He finally reported back to me over the last two days. Yes it took him that long to get back to me. But we wont question his excuses at this time, poor as they may be as you will see why it doesnt matter, below.

Today he reported to me that the BMW dealership alleged to him that I hung up the phone on the manager in anger, and that I cancelled the deal. Not only is this false and inaccurate but it shows they are now making a bad experience worse by attempting to placing the blame on me, the customer, with a bold faced lie so they "have some evidence or reason" to support their horrid decision.

This falsehood is not possible as I never spoke to any manager at the dealership, at all, whatsoever, at any time since the car arrived. All communications came through the sales persons personal cell phone because the many corporate numbers from the dealership are apparently blocked on my phone. I never hung up on the sales guy either. They are the ones who cancelled the deal on me or else this forum post wouldnt exist.

They are trying to throw me under the bus as if this is somehow my fault and then lying on top of it!!!! I replied to the ex GSM and of course, denied this and pointed out the lie.

He then wrote me back after 5 pm saying that he "misunderstood what the dealership told him" regarding the lie about me hanging up on them. ( Really? how can that even be communicated and misunderstood? Did they say they hung up on me and he misconstrue that?) He went on to type in this follow up email another lame excuse. He now says the dealership googled me and came up with an Arizona address. Why does this matter... because they are in so deep with their behavior and the lies that they need to find "something" to base their actions on. Having an AZ address would force me to pay AZ taxes or "something" more than 0 taxes.

Suffice it to say, the address they came up with was a UPS Store mailbox I had 20 years ago. Mind you, Im an existing OREGON registered BMW M8 lessee. They had already pulled my credit and been approved by BMW finance to purchase the vehicle, and had my Oregon drivers license and insurance in hand.

Now... when is it standard operating procedure to google a purchaser after being approved by BMW financial?

When is anything on the internet truthful, accurate or timely?

When has finding something on the internet a basis for not selling someone a car?

LAME... LAME... LAME, weasel like excuses.


The other bomb he dropped... and this is the kicker!!! was that the car has ALREADY BEEN SOLD and he cant help me. Go figure. He took several days to "help me out" only to find in 4 days time it took to help me out, the car has magically been sold before he could help me.... fyi there are a couple other X7 M50i's that have been sitting on the lot.

In the end, all he did was try and cover for his buddies at the dealership by buying time. Then provide weak excuse after weak excuse that he should know, are all hollow, to justify why they cancelled the deal with me.


What I have done:

I have made a complaint with Corporate. In fact, I had to update the complaint as these events took place over the course of the day. Customer support says this is the first they ever heard of such an experience.... for whatever that is worth. I still have not been contacted by any manager or GM from the dealership. The Customer support team says they have put the complaint in the "escalation team's" queue and someone should contact me from there. But could offer me no guarantees or clarity on when or if they will.

How does this smell to you folks now? Any chance my original beliefs were correct about greed ruling the day? But to actually lie and claim its my fault is utterly disgusting. So... Im still open for suggestions beyond slaying them on all the review sites.

[fl650]

In some ways your experience sounds similar to one I had with my daughter's fully-optioned and ordered X1. One day I got a call from my client advisor to let me know that the vehicle had arrived. The next day he called me to say that another advisor had sold the car to someone else, not knowing that it was an ordered vehicle. It was hard to understand how this could happen, however, the dealership corrected the situation by locating and trading for a similarly configured X1, assuming all additional costs. It sounds as if your relationship with the dealership has deteriorated to the point where this may no longer be an option. If they wanted to make you happy, they could always order another car since X7s are plentiful and (to the best of my knowledge) not on a restricted allocation. BMW may act as a mediator, however, it's unlikely that they'll step up and force the dealer's hand.

[Opie55]

My questions/reactions:

1. I'm confused about the tax issue. Since sales tax goes to the taxing entity, why does a dealer care if you have to pay tax or not?

2. Being a person who likes to buy very low-mileage used cars after owner one eats the steepest depreciation, I am not that familiar with what you sign to special order a car after paying a $5k deposit, but why are they not obligated to sell it to you at that point?

3. Why would you even want to spend any more time with this dealer or give them any money? Life is too short.

4. Your story, while frustrating to you, is not all that compelling as a social media story/review to any potential purchasers - especially as a story about a car dealership. It's kind of convoluted and won't move anybody, especially if it's true that what they did was within their rights. I wouldn't waste any more of your life typing it up.

[fl650]

To the previous poster's last point, situations like this are not uncommon when dealing with car dealerships, but perhaps not as frequent when buying a BMW. As frustrating as it is, unless there was something unique about the vehicle you ordered, it can be replaced and purchased from another dealer. Since you're out of state, outside of "good will" they have limited incentive to step up and do the right thing. By returning your deposit they've also canceled any contract that might exist and it isn't worth the expense that you might incur (financial and non-financial) to pursue this further. As upsetting as it is, I would move on.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Chai Five

suggestions beyond slaying them on all the review sites.

unfortunately this happens. I was in negotiations to buy a $100k vehicle from a dealership in Ohio, when they swapped vin numbers. We had the deal and I sent the check, only to find out they switched VIN because they sold my truck to another higher paying customer. I luckily found another one in Tennessee, but it costs me about $5k more.

Legally speaking, there isn't much you can do. they don't have to sell you a car and you don't have to buy from them. Given our current "pandemic"; car prices are nuts and people are paying ridiculous markups for some cars. Those people will continue to "outbid" you and take cars from shady dealers.

also, it's the risk you run when you custom order vs. buy off the lot. As some have found out, customer orders don't always arrive on time and in the same conditions. Until you have possessions, it's not "yours" even if you put down a deposit.

Legally most of these deposits aren't binding on anyone. you can cancel anytime, and they can cancel anytime. You are entitled to your money back; but it sounds like you already got your deposit back.

I'm a licensed attorney and I can help answer any questions you have about this without legal fees; but I think that you will just have to find another dealership to work with.

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by fl650

In some ways your experience sounds similar to one I had with my daughter's fully-optioned and ordered X1. One day I got a call from my client advisor to let me know that the vehicle had arrived. The next day he called me to say that another advisor had sold the car to someone else, not knowing that it was an ordered vehicle. It was hard to understand how this could happen, however, the dealership corrected the situation by locating and trading for a similarly configured X1, assuming all additional costs. It sounds as if your relationship with the dealership has deteriorated to the point where this may no longer be an option. If they wanted to make you happy, they could always order another car since X7s are plentiful and (to the best of my knowledge) not on a restricted allocation. BMW may act as a mediator, however, it's unlikely that they'll step up and force the dealer's hand.

Curious, in this case and when OP ordered, did your vehicle show up in your BMW garage account after ordering so you could track the status and such?

I'm assuming this wasn't the case, and that they basically just modified an existing dealer allocation they had in the works, so it wasn't really officially flagged as being your car and was relying on the GM/GSM's recollection or other internal tracking devices (e.g. a random spreadsheet or marginal note on a whiteboard). CA's across the region could see those allocations coming in, so they'd even be subject to dealer trades and such, very easy to lose sight of if the dealership doesn't have a great way to keep track of this stuff.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

Curious, in this case and when OP ordered, did your vehicle show up in your BMW garage account after ordering so you could track the status and such?

I'm assuming this wasn't the case, and that they basically just modified an existing dealer allocation they had in the works, so it wasn't really officially flagged as being your car and was relying on the GM/GSM's recollection or other internal tracking devices (e.g. a random spreadsheet or marginal note on a whiteboard). CA's across the region could see those allocations coming in, so they'd even be subject to dealer trades and such, very easy to lose sight of if the dealership doesn't have a great way to keep track of this stuff.

I agree with this above post. but I'd go one step further, even if they had flagged it as "yours"; it's not technically or legally yours until you take delivery and official legal possession by title with the DMV and "own" it.

that way, if a hurricane hits it; the bmw dealership is liable, not you or your insurance. so the law works both ways.

[fl650]

I don't recall, however, I suspect that you're correct. We took a 34K X1 up to 48K, so the vehicle was fairly unique. The car arrived from Austria in less than two months, so the dealership probably modified a unit that was already in production. At the time, there was only one other similar vehicle in the country (exterior/interior and option packages) at a dealership in Houston. Fortunately, they agreed to the trade.

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

Legally most of these deposits aren't binding on anyone. you can cancel anytime, and they can cancel anytime.

Yep, deposits are basically just the way for the dealer to know you're serious, no real benefit to the buyer other than being part of normal process. When I was contemplating ordering a new G8x a couple of month's ago, I spoke to 3 dealerships I have used before regarding securing an allocation:

Dealer 1, where I got my X7 but is a good 300 miles away, wanted a $2500 deposit and credit app.
Dealer 2, where I got my M3 which was going to be at term when the G8x came in, wanted $500 and a credit app.
Dealer 3, local to me where I get all the service done and everyone knows me by name, was cool with a handshake knowing the credit app didn't mean anything since they'd have to pull another one closer to delivery anyway.

If I ever end up ordering a car, I'll definitely use dealer 3, we're honest with each other and I don't have to worry about getting lost in the shuffle since they're a low-volume dealer. I just get an itch to search out a good deal within 300 miles whenever it's time, so I haven't bought a car from them in about 7 years. Each time, I head in them to apologize, but they don't hold me a fault when I explain what I was able to achieve elsewhere (mainly executive demos or leftovers that were already punched so they couldn't get them on a trade if they wanted to).

[fl650]

Same experience here. Dealers make their money on service, so where you buy your car doesn't really matter. Only qualifier is that some dealerships have very restrictive policies when it comes to loaner cars if you didn't purchase the vehicle from them.

[Chai Five]

Originally Posted by Opie55

My questions/reactions:

1. I'm confused about the tax issue. Since sales tax goes to the taxing entity, why does a dealer care if you have to pay tax or not?

Because the State of AZ audits their dealers for appropriate taxation because they are so close to California. Lots of scammers try and avoid AZ sales and registration taxes in that state.... allegedly

2. Being a person who likes to buy very low-mileage used cars after owner one eats the steepest depreciation, I am not that familiar with what you sign to special order a car after paying a $5k deposit, but why are they not obligated to sell it to you at that point?

Nothing special. Just a build sheet order form that recognizes what options you chose etc.

3. Why would you even want to spend any more time with this dealer or give them any money? Life is too short.

Agreed. car is gone. They are assholes, I moved on. Other family members will be roasting them on social media.

4. Your story, while frustrating to you, is not all that compelling as a social media story/review to any potential purchasers - especially as a story about a car dealership. It's kind of convoluted and won't move anybody, especially if it's true that what they did was within their rights. I wouldn't waste any more of your life typing it up.

agreed. but I disagree that people wont be interested or enjoy reading the saga at the appropriate review/ratings website.

thanks for your concern and questions

[Chai Five]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

Curious, in this case and when OP ordered, did your vehicle show up in your BMW garage account after ordering so you could track the status and such?

I'm assuming this wasn't the case, and that they basically just modified an existing dealer allocation they had in the works, so it wasn't really officially flagged as being your car and was relying on the GM/GSM's recollection or other internal tracking devices (e.g. a random spreadsheet or marginal note on a whiteboard). CA's across the region could see those allocations coming in, so they'd even be subject to dealer trades and such, very easy to lose sight of if the dealership doesn't have a great way to keep track of this stuff.

IT was absolutely in "My Garage" on BMW with a ViN and in my name and yes I could track it.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Chai Five

agreed. but I disagree that people wont be interested or enjoy reading the saga at the appropriate review/ratings website.

thanks for your concern and questions

I remember a couple Cali dealers giving me shit about not being able to sell to me because I was in Wisconsin....which made no sense. Anyways, it's 2021.....I could care less....I'll drive to FLA or wherever to get a car for the best price and give them my money instead. No skin off my back.

[Belugs]

You would be surprised how powerful social media is these days. Write a full complaint on BMWNA and BMWUSA Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook page and tag the dealership

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by Chai Five

IT was absolutely in "My Garage" on BMW with a ViN and in my name and yes I could track it.

Fun, so less likely they would have accidentally sold it out from under you like the experience fl650. I was initially partly thinking they might have just came up with some lame excuses out of embarrassment, it's odd what people will say when they don't want to admit a mistake.

Tracks with the follow-up and the idea that greedy/shady/lazy practices were all at work and they just wanted to be done with the whole situation.