[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

you can disagree all day, but you're wrong.

the fees, costs and penalties with a 4% lease [assuming 2 leases] don't equal the true cost to own over a long 6+ year period. and not that many people go beyond, but years 6-10 will exceed the values.

if you never had a car, leased one for 3 years and never bought another car; then yes, it's cheaper to lease.

if you lease 2 cars for 3 years: or buy a car and keep it then sell in 6 years; it's almost identical EVERY time on EVERY car from a 911 to a truck to a Mercedes.

if you lease 3 cars @3 yr, or buy 1 for @9yr; it's cheaper for the 9 yr car.

THE ONLY DIFFERENCE is that you get a new car every couple years with 0 maintenance vs. owning a car.

trust me. I'm right.

That's if you lease two cars that are $140k back to back. If you are trying to get out in 3 years you are going to spend more in 3 years buying let alone if you try doing this after 4 months.

Also, as you said, you aren't factoring in maintenance once the car is out of warranty.

Bottom line, don't do anything but lease high end cars.....otherwise be prepared to get your ass handed to you when you sell or if you have to get out of the loan early.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Ozzie8

Leasing could be a really attractive option for BMW here. But there are three items which get in the way. The interest rate is still above 5%. The residual they offer, which should be WAY better than anything you can get from a private sale, is actually very poor. Finally the forms you need to complete and the information you need to disclose now make a vehicle lease worse than a bank loan.

Huh? The info they ask for hasn't changed in forever. It's hardly comprehensive. It's laughable to say it's anywhere in the same league as getting a mortgage.

Also, I'm paying literally 2.5 percent on my M5 lease. This is with amazing credit and a history of paying back huge car loans/leases.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Disagree. The M850 might be, what, a $1500 per month lease? That’s $54k of payments in 3 years. You are saying you are out $70k after 4 months. Easy calculation here. That car will be worth even less in 2.5 years even if you don’t drive it another mile.

My lease on my 2020 M850i coupe is well north of $1500 (would need to check on the actual amount but auto payment is set from a dedicated high yield savings account so I frankly could care less). Beyond the capital and money factors in a lease there are dealer/BMWFS incentives that can lower the lease payment. However, I waited 9 months for my M850i through two F'd up builds by BMW so I was not going to sweat the details on my lease payments outside of leveraging MSDs to drive down the overall APR.

Life is too short and I waited over a decade to buy what became the M850i. Granted I'm fortunate (through hard work and establishment) that worrying about $1500 vs $1900 for a lease payment is not a factor whatsoever but rather a rounding error. My goal was to get the car and enjoy it end of story. If you are sitting on the sidelines and commenting owning a F90 M5 (did my research) no offense but I could have walked away from my M850i custom order and bought a M5C for less money. Bottom line is do not disparage a 8-series owner whom is obviously making a tough decision that absolutely none of us want to have to make.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

My lease on my 2020 M850i coupe is well north of $1500 (would need to check on the actual amount but auto payment is set from a dedicated high yield savings account so I frankly could care less). Beyond the capital and money factors in a lease there are dealer/BMWFS incentives that can lower the lease payment. However, I waited 9 months for my M850i through two F'd up builds by BMW so I was not going to sweat the details on my lease payments outside of leveraging MSDs to drive down the overall APR.

Life is too short and I waited over a decade to buy what became the M850i. Granted I'm fortunate (through hard work and establishment) that worrying about $1500 vs $1900 for a lease payment is not a factor whatsoever but rather a rounding error. My goal was to get the car and enjoy it end of story. If you are sitting on the sidelines and commenting with a F90 M5 (did my research) no offense but I could have walked away from my M850i custom order and bought a M5C for less money. Bottom line is do not disparage a 8-series owner whom is obviously making a tough decision that absolutely none of us want to have to make.

Not disparaging at all. I simply said high end BMW's are not worth buying over leasing. I've been leading cars like that for 15 years and I've never regretted leasing over buying once I see the value of the car when the lease is up. OP's situation is one example why....it's hard to get out of something a huge loan like that.

Not sure what your comment was implying regarding the M5 versus M850i.....I looked into the M850i for a second but I'm not paying those ridiculous prices for a car that isn't even a real M. Hence why no one is really buying these and the discounts are huge. They took the 6 series and just made it way more expensive.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Huh? The info they ask for hasn't changed in forever. It's hardly comprehensive. It's laughable to say it's anywhere in the same league as getting a mortgage.

Also, I'm paying literally 2.5 percent on my M5 lease. This is with amazing credit and a history of paying back huge car loans/leases.

LOL I'm paying 2.2% on my M850i lease and have an 848 FICO score. Not sure what your point is but obviously there are many of us here on the forum that can absolutely squelch it at any given turn.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by mjr24

They took the 6 series and just made it way more expensive.

Easy there, son.

PS: my last 2016 M6C Gran Coupe was ~$149K... not quite fully loaded. My M8C Gran Coupe was ~$163K... not quite fully-loaded. I don't think it's fair to say the 8 is way more expensive.

PPS: as for the rest of this thread, "thank you, next!"

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Not disparaging at all. I simply said high end BMW's are not worth buying over leasing. I've been leading cars like that for 15 years and I've never regretted leasing over buying once I see the value of the car when the lease is up. OP's situation is one example why....it's hard to get out of something a huge loan like that.

Not sure what your comment was implying regarding the M5 versus M850i.....I looked into the M850i for a second but I'm not paying those ridiculous prices for a car that isn't even a real M. Hence why no one is really buying these and the discounts are huge. They took the 6 series and just made it way more expensive.

If you're driving an M5 vs a M5C than hate to tell you but a M850i out performs it on the track. With Randy Pobost behind the wheel of both cars on Laguna Seca proves that, i.e., M850i at 1:39.40 and a F90 M5 at 1:39.81. If you want to consider a M8C vs M5C there are many owners of both on the forum that can clearly dictate the value of "those ridiculous" prices.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Easy there, son.

PS: my last 2016 M6C Gran Coupe was ~$149K... not quite fully loaded. My M8C Gran Coupe was ~$163K... not quite fully-loaded. I don't think it's fair to say the 8 is way more expensive.

PPS: as for the rest of this thread, "thank you, next!"

That may have been the most highly optioned 6 made. I don't think that's a fair gauge LOL. Surely that at least bought you a carbon fiber roof I hope?!

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

If you're driving an M5 vs a M5C than hate to tell you but a M850i out performs it on the track. With Randy Pobost behind the wheel of both cars on Laguna Seca proves that, i.e., M850i at 1:39.40 and a F90 M5 at 1:39.81. If you want to consider a M8C vs M5C there are many owners of both on the forum that can clearly dictate the value of "those ridiculous" prices.

99.9 percent of people don't track their cars. The M5 outperforms it everywhere else and it's a sedan.

The M variant cars are cool....I had an G30 M550i and it's a great car for the money. However, an M car it's just not.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by mjr24

That may have been the most highly optioned 6 made. I don't think that's a fair gauge LOL. Surely that at least bought you a carbon fiber roof I hope?!

Hello as per my previous post a M850i (with a carbon roof) beats a F90 on the track with a competent driver behind the wheel of both cars. A M6 frankly is a joke even in comparison. Agree or disagree but with the facts on the table it is clear as day.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by mjr24

That may have been the most highly optioned 6 made. I don't think that's a fair gauge LOL. Surely that at least bought you a carbon fiber roof I hope?!

It was my second, no CC brakes so not particularly.

I think you're married to that opinion and I'm not invested in this discussion so let's leave it there.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Hello as per my previous post a M850i (with a carbon roof) beats a F90 on the track with a competent driver behind the wheel of both cars. A M6 frankly is a joke even in comparison. Agree or disagree but with the facts on the table it is clear as day.

I don't know where you get your facts from.....

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...5-test-review/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...y-the-numbers/

You are correct, though, the results are clear as day. The M850 is 1 second slower from 0-100 and 2.5 seconds slower from 0-150.....takes longer to stop, etc. It's literally slower in every one of the 10 categories tested by Car and Driver.

Try taking a corner at 90, too.....let me know how that works out in a non-M car. This is not even a discussion......

Again, M850i is a GREAT CAR.....but it's not a M car. Look the stats up....I'd bet the M5 actually sells for more used than the M850i and it was, what, 25k less new? BMW made the normal 8's way too expensive. First world problems....owning either of these cars is an honor.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by mjr24

99.9 percent of people don't track their cars. The M5 outperforms it everywhere else and it's a sedan.

The M variant cars are cool....I had an G30 M550i and it's a great car for the money. However, an M car it's just not.

As per limeypride, I'm pretty sure the discussion is at a close. A G30 M550i is nothing in comparison to a M850i including the lack of a carbon core. Enjoy the M5 for all the reasons why you bought it and everyone else here on the 8-series forum will continue to enjoy our cars for the same reason. Call them over priced all you want but at the end of the day I own watches that cost more than my car so frankly whom gives a shit. It's all about enjoying the drive!

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Hello as per my previous post a M850i (with a carbon roof) beats a F90 on the track with a competent driver behind the wheel of both cars.

Duuuuuude... sadly, I'll have to DISAGREE passionately--that is utter codswallop. Where on earth do you get that from? There's a 23 second difference between them on the ring... that's a track and a reasonable benchmark for performance debates where "tracks" and competent drivers are assumed. Still love ya, man!

A M6 frankly is a joke even in comparison. Agree or disagree but with the facts on the table it is clear as day.

Yeah, I loved it in its day... but relative to today's comparably-classed vehicles--no argument here. But I I really did love it in its day, though.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

As per limeypride, I'm pretty sure the discussion is at a close. A G30 M550i is nothing in comparison to a M850i including the lack of a carbon core. Enjoy the M5 for all the reasons why you bought it and everyone else here on the 8-series forum will continue to enjoy our cars for the same reason. Call them over priced all you want but at the end of the day I own watches that cost more than my car so frankly whom gives a shit. It's all about enjoying the drive!

Nooooo, I inadvertently prolonged it. Sorry, man... I suck.

And returning to our original programming: we're in total agreement on pricing--the car's special; they're not overpriced.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

As per limeypride, I'm pretty sure the discussion is at a close. A G30 M550i is nothing in comparison to a M850i including the lack of a carbon core. Enjoy the M5 for all the reasons why you bought it and everyone else here on the 8-series forum will continue to enjoy our cars for the same reason. Call them over priced all you want but at the end of the day I own watches that cost more than my car so frankly whom gives a shit. It's all about enjoying the drive!

I agree, the M550i is not anything compared to the M850i. However, it just illustrates the point....if you look at the C and D M550i numbers....the difference between a M550 and M850 is the same gap that the M5 has on the M850. Enjoy the cars.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Duuuuuude... sadly, I'll have to DISAGREE passionately--that is utter codswallop. Where on earth do you get that from? There's a 23 second difference between them on the ring... that's a track and a reasonable benchmark for performance debates where "tracks" and competent drivers are assumed. Still love ya, man!

As always in everything I do/state I'll be the first to call out when I am wrong. Got the data points from https://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna-seca-post-1988. Understand the sentiment as I'm far from a competent driver behind the wheel of my M850i. To that point I may just be lost in the amazing B&W audio experience or just gazing at the watch on my wrist. Either way I'm a joy driver at the end of the day. Love you too and an absolute respect for your experience car wise let alone the IT bromance.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by mjr24

That's if you lease two cars that are $140k back to back. If you are trying to get out in 3 years you are going to spend more in 3 years buying let alone if you try doing this after 4 months.

Also, as you said, you aren't factoring in maintenance once the car is out of warranty.

Bottom line, don't do anything but lease high end cars.....otherwise be prepared to get your ass handed to you when you sell or if you have to get out of the loan early.

yes, that assumption assumes 2 identical cars like both $140k back to back leases.

but you're wrong, it included all normal maintenance and such.

you're wrong in that in 4 months, both leasing and buying are almost identical because of the penalties of lease early turn in. so both ways are almost the same in under 12 months. standard leases have early penalties.

the only advantage is you get a new car every 3 years. assuming all else the same for constantly apples to apples comparison purposes.

which can be a cool thing to have a new car every 3 years vs every 6 or 9 yrs.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yes, that assumption assumes 2 identical cars like both $140k back to back leases.

but you're wrong, it included all normal maintenance and such.

you're wrong in that in 4 months, both leasing and buying are almost identical because of the penalties of lease early turn in. so both ways are almost the same in under 12 months. standard leases have early penalties.

the only advantage is you get a new car every 3 years. assuming all else the same for constantly apples to apples comparison purposes.

which can be a cool thing to have a new car every 3 years vs every 6 or 9 yrs.

Sigh, I'm signing myself up for pain here but, nonetheless --> I want a new car every 12 months (or less if it's an AMG, apparently )...

SwapAlease: I'm at maybe 9 sold leases now--7 of which were M cars. I sell my leases every 12 months or so, occasionally sooner. With a zero-down lease, I'm in--and out--and in again for less than a single lease payment. That is not, however, true for my last M5:M8 swap--she's chunky, pretty and high-maintenance (to get into if you know what I mean ).

I might be the novelty for now but lease-swapping is becoming more mainstream. Zero-down leases+later lease assumptions carry no depreciation assuming there's a market for whatever you decided to lease (orange interiors don't qualify... just sayin').

[Resjudicata]

lease swapping is a game changer, if it's truly 0 cost and you can get in and out with easy liquidity and fluidity.

turo is not even an option if you want to consider it a joke: here is a proof why turo doesn't work the owners of the cars;
https://www.normalguysupercar.com/fa...we-rented-out/

.

[Ozzie8]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Huh? The info they ask for hasn't changed in forever. It's hardly comprehensive. It's laughable to say it's anywhere in the same league as getting a mortgage.

Also, I'm paying literally 2.5 percent on my M5 lease. This is with amazing credit and a history of paying back huge car loans/leases.

Australia.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yes, that assumption assumes 2 identical cars like both $140k back to back leases.

but you're wrong, it included all normal maintenance and such.

you're wrong in that in 4 months, both leasing and buying are almost identical because of the penalties of lease early turn in. so both ways are almost the same in under 12 months. standard leases have early penalties.

the only advantage is you get a new car every 3 years. assuming all else the same for constantly apples to apples comparison purposes.

which can be a cool thing to have a new car every 3 years vs every 6 or 9 yrs.

I'm not following you on lease turn-in penalties. I would never advocate just turning in a lease like 6 months into a 36-month lease (as you would be responsible for the remaining payments on the lease). This is where lease transfers help a lot....if you are paying $1500/month on a lease....and even throw $15k into those payments as an incentive to a prospective transferee....you have the lease effectively down to $1k a month and it would lease quick. Yeah, you lose $15k.....but it's better than $40k.

If you are going to keep the car for 6 years and don't drive a lot....buying definitely will have you coming out ahead (especially if you get a good deal originally). I don't dispute that. However, I'd rather be paying $1500 a month on 2 new cars over those 6 years.....then paying $1,500 a month still on a 5 year old car.

The Turo was just a suggestion to actually do something with the car as opposed to it collecting dust. I didn't even watch that guy's Youtube video. I could already tell his issue from the cover pic on the video link. What do you expect to happen when you rent out 8 boring USED cars that likely will need a lot of maintenance. People want to drive new cars. I would easily pay someone $300 a day for a few days to drive an M850i before dumping $120k into one. Those are the people you want.