M8 AND 8 SERIES
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BIMMERPOST Universal Forums General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos Your car is watching you. Who owns the data?

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-12-2019, 09:19 AM   #1
anh3
New Member
6
Rep
25
Posts

Drives: 2017 340i
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Midwest

iTrader: (0)

Your car is watching you. Who owns the data?

https://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/cars-data-privacy

This is concerning, one for privacy reason, two we're collectively paying for our cars and the technologies in it-which the car makers obtained and makes money off of.

One obvious example, about a month ago I had problem with my oil level sensor being damaged by mice... Dash display then showed messages saying oil change is needed. I then get a phone call every day from local dealership because my car was sending them messages that it needs an oil change.
Appreciate 2
      04-12-2019, 11:30 AM   #2
Mach550
Lieutenant
Mach550's Avatar
United_States
140
Rep
420
Posts

Drives: 2019 BMW M550i
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Tampa Bay

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2019 BMW M550i  [0.00]
There was a major internet outage in my area a day ago and the wifi didn't work in my car. Was wondering if there is a way to totally disable this if I ever go crazy doing something to it other than simple exhaust.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2019, 11:34 AM   #3
Timujin
Captain
Timujin's Avatar
291
Rep
919
Posts

Drives: 2010 E90 M3 DCT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: California

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
2010 BMW M3  [0.00]
This is crazy.
__________________
We grow food to feed the animals so we can eat the animals
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2019, 01:52 PM   #4
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
5310
Rep
13,186
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

The 4th Amendment prevents the Government from illegal search and seizure, but not private companies.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2019, 03:06 PM   #5
Mason Hatcher
Private First Class
United_States
152
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: BMW 230i
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: FW-TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
The 4th Amendment prevents the Government from making UNREASONABLE search and seizure, but not private companies.
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

Appreciate 2
      04-12-2019, 08:47 PM   #6
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
5310
Rep
13,186
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

From Cornell Law:

The Fourth Amendment originally enforced the notion that “each man’s home is his castle”, secure from unreasonable searches and seizures of property by the government. It protects against arbitrary arrests, and is the basis of the law regarding search warrants, stop-and-frisk, safety inspections, wiretaps, and other forms of surveillance, as well as being central to many other criminal law topics and to privacy law

But you are correct, I did not explicitly quote the Constitutional text of the Amendment.
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.
Appreciate 0
      04-12-2019, 11:01 PM   #7
The Wind Breezes
Lieutenant Colonel
The Wind Breezes's Avatar
772
Rep
1,778
Posts

Drives: 135i N55 DCT
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

You're worried about this huh? So I guess you don't own a smartphone use credit cards drive with a license plate use the internet or live in the 21st century.

Anyway if you're concerned for now you can disable connectivity on your car by removing whatever device it uses to do that like the cellular system. That stuff is not a secret.
Appreciate 2
Efthreeoh5310.00
Soterios374.00

      04-12-2019, 11:12 PM   #8
Mason Hatcher
Private First Class
United_States
152
Rep
117
Posts

Drives: BMW 230i
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: FW-TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
From Cornell Law:

The Fourth Amendment originally enforced the notion that “each man’s home is his castle”, secure from unreasonable searches and seizures of property by the government. It protects against arbitrary arrests, and is the basis of the law regarding search warrants, stop-and-frisk, safety inspections, wiretaps, and other forms of surveillance, as well as being central to many other criminal law topics and to privacy law

But you are correct, I did not explicitly quote the Constitutional text of the Amendment.
Laws were created based on the 4th; however, an unconstitutional search is not, on its face, illegal. A good faith search later determined to be unconstitutional wasn't illegal and no criminal charges can be brought. Evidence can be excluded.

Sorry, this is my field and I just cannot help myself. I was not criticizing you.
Appreciate 1
      04-13-2019, 12:26 AM   #9
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
1583
Rep
2,639
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

Vehicles log lots of data that could be incriminating. The fourth amendment makes the government get a warrant to get access your vehicles "stuff"" after you're involved in an accident. Most modern motor vehicles pretty much log the previous 60 seconds of everything before an airbag event. Big Brother is watching.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 06:58 AM   #10
Efthreeoh
Lieutenant General
United_States
5310
Rep
13,186
Posts

Drives: E90 & Z4 Coupe
Join Date: May 2012
Location: MARLAND

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Laws were created based on the 4th; however, an unconstitutional search is not, on its face, illegal. A good faith search later determined to be unconstitutional wasn't illegal and no criminal charges can be brought. Evidence can be excluded.

Sorry, this is my field and I just cannot help myself. I was not criticizing you.
I think you are arguing semantics; which I get, it is your profession.

The reason I responded back to you was your response to my post obscured the point I was making in my post, which is a person's natural expectation of privacy, as addressed by the language of the 4th Amendment, only applies to the US Government regarding reasonable search and seizure (data being considered property), whereas private companies that create devices that create "personal data" do not fall under the constraints set forth under the 4th Amendment.

Generally, when one contracts with a company that provides such service that creates "personal data" the purchaser signs an agreement that allows the company to use the data. If one were carefully look at all the documents signed at the time of purchase of a modern automobile, most likely he would find terms and conditions within the paperwork that states he gives his consent to allow the company to use the personal data for the various purposes it sees fit.

No issues...
__________________
A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission.

Last edited by Efthreeoh; 04-13-2019 at 07:17 AM..
Appreciate 1
      04-13-2019, 09:50 AM   #11
ScottyRyan2019
Licensed Professional Slacker
ScottyRyan2019's Avatar
United_States
514
Rep
402
Posts

Drives: BMW 340i xDrive and BMW X3 M40
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: St Paul, MN

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eluded View Post
Vehicles log lots of data that could be incriminating. The fourth amendment makes the government get a warrant to get access your vehicles "stuff"" after you're involved in an accident. Most modern motor vehicles pretty much log the previous 60 seconds of everything before an airbag event. Big Brother is watching.
Actually, depending on the vehicle manufacturer, the EDR records only 5 seconds of pre-crash data (sometimes up to 20 seconds). What is recorded varies as well. Most common is vehicle wheel speed, percent throttle, brake activation, airbag deployment, seatbelt activation, velocity change, etc. It is a very useful tool to aid a crash investigator as well as an insurance investigator but again, it is just one of many tools and should not be used alone, but in conjunction with other investigative tools.
Appreciate 0
      04-13-2019, 12:11 PM   #12
Darth One
drunk poster
Darth One's Avatar
United_States
2832
Rep
2,566
Posts

Drives: M4 GTS | E46 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      04-14-2019, 05:20 PM   #13
overlook637
Lieutenant
205
Rep
412
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason Hatcher View Post
Fixed it for you. No search is inherently illegal, it is the 4th that makes unreasonable ones unconstitutional, not illegal.

Unless your running for election and your opponent pays for false reports that the FBI then uses to trick a judge into signing a search warrant.... Then same crooked FBI agents leak select information to corrupt fakenews.
Appreciate 1
Efthreeoh5310.00

      04-14-2019, 05:22 PM   #14
overlook637
Lieutenant
205
Rep
412
Posts

Drives: M4
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Rumor is that google maps will route you based on paying advertising. Your commute could be 12.9 miles but the local pizza, car dealership, or drycleaning pays for google advertising. So google routes your to drive by this location making your trip slightly longer.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2019, 08:25 AM   #15
David70
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
773
Rep
1,941
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4M Coupe - 13 Cadillac ATS
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cincinnati, OH

iTrader: (1)

Always surprised at these "what about x" like cars when Google has access to far greater amounts of information and has been using it at will for years. Best I can tell my car only knows where I go, how fast, how long it sits there and what is going on with the cars electronics. Compare this to my smart phone and I am not too worried about my car except for speed, driving characteristics, and this type of information and who it is given to. Marketing research doesn't worry me too much.


Quote:
Originally Posted by overlook637 View Post
Rumor is that google maps will route you based on paying advertising. Your commute could be 12.9 miles but the local pizza, car dealership, or drycleaning pays for google advertising. So google routes your to drive by this location making your trip slightly longer.
Takes more than internet rumors to have me believe it. Unless it was extremely close to the same overall time it should quickly become obvious to many if they use it on their normal routes and test the theory out. I haven't seen it.
__________________
2006 Z4M Coupe - Stromung exhaust, ZHP knob, stubby antenna, clutch delay delete
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2019, 12:44 PM   #16
2cyl
Registered
2cyl's Avatar
0
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: 2017 i3 Rex
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Glen Cove NY USA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
I have been reading BMW privacy policy at https://www.bmwusa.com/privacy-policy/index.html

Notably it has no explicit reference to data transmitted by my car to BMW. It mostly talks about data gathered by BMW web sites.

Not being a lawyer, I suspect there may be loopholes in the policy I can't define clearly.

Anyone know, for example, whether BMW would sell information gathered from my car to my insurance company? (Which might raise my rates if it doesn't like the way I drive or where I drive...)

Is BMW committed to asking my permission before doing that?

Does BMW provide a privacy policy statement that is relevant to data BMW gets from my car?
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2019, 12:51 PM   #17
omasou
Lieutenant Colonel
omasou's Avatar
United_States
924
Rep
1,851
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: US

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2020 BMW M2C  [0.00]
RTM.



30s in.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2019, 04:13 PM   #18
Humdizzle
Captain
582
Rep
690
Posts

Drives: 2010 ferrari 458
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Missouri

iTrader: (0)

hopefully it'll show everyones data.

so we can see who is hitting redline in 3rd and 4th every day and who is driving in comfort/efficient and not taking it past 3k.
__________________

2010 Ferrari 458
2015 SSII F80 6MT
2009 Honda Civic
Previous: E36 M3 | E46 M3 | R35 GTR | FR-S | F30 335i
Appreciate 0
      05-24-2019, 04:43 PM   #19
eluded
2JZ-GTE
eluded's Avatar
Bulgaria
1583
Rep
2,639
Posts

Drives: 340 6MT
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Sofia

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
hopefully it'll show everyones data.

so we can see who is hitting redline in 3rd and 4th every day and who is driving in comfort/efficient and not taking it past 3k.
The Porsche ECU knows that data
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:04 AM.




m8
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST