[Vigilante375]

I think people don't like the pushrod just because it's so damn simple to understand and to work on. I'm a muscle car guy through and through but I like any and all cars. To me the best sound from any car is between the ZR1s LS9 or the Koenigsegg Agera's 5.0 TT V8.....at WOT......

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I think people don't like the pushrod just because it's so damn simple to understand and to work on. I'm a muscle car guy through and through but I like any and all cars. To me the best sound from any car is between the ZR1s LS9 or the Koenigsegg Agera's 5.0 TT V8.....at WOT......

I'd throw the LFA V10 into that conversation as well.

[Vigilante375]

Actually now that I think about it, the Aventador sounds damn good too.

[dmk08]

At least in an M5 you can turn up the V8 motor noise in the speakers right? I don't think that's going to be in the M3/M4.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by dmk08

At least in an M5 you can turn up the V8 motor noise in the speakers right? I don't think that's going to be in the M3/M4.

Yep, it's there too and also in the new M235i. Hell, you can probably make the i3 sound like an F1 car.

[Vigilante375]

That feature is the external noise of the engine note played through the speakers. Not my taste but I'd rather pay for a nice exhaust system if I wanted to really hear my vehicles engine note........

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I'd throw the LFA V10 into that conversation as well.

This

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

Actually now that I think about it, the Aventador sounds damn good too.

and actually logged in to type this, but you beat me to it. My gawd that thing is all glory to my ears.

[HuskerFan85]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Yep, it's there too and also in the new M235i. Hell, you can probably make the i3 sound like an F1 car.

there is a v12 note package, but its pretty pricey.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Ezio

i think people hate push rod V8s because they are push rod V8s. simple as that.

People can hate all they want. There is a reason the LT1 made this years Ward's 10 Best Engines List.

[swanson]

[quagmire]

People also believe OHC is a newer engine technology which is not true. OHC and OHV are both around the same age with OHC I believe being a few years older.

Both are ancient as shit. Just OHV was used more by the Big 3 and they dominated the market back in the day. So when the imports came in, OHC seemed like a new engine technology.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Corvette LS3
Weight - 415 lbs
Power - 430 hp
Torque - 424 lb-ft
Efficiency -
16 MPG City
26 MPG HWY
19 MPG Comb
Regular Gasoline

Corvette LS7
Weight - 458lbs
Power - 505 hp
Torque - 470 lb-ft
Efficiency -
15 MPG City
24 MPG HWY
18 MPG Comb
Regular Gasoline


BMW S65
Weight - 445 lbs
Power - 414 hp
Torque - 295 lb-ft
Efficiency -
14 MPG City
20 MPG HWY
16 MPG Comb
Premium Gasoline

Ancient ... maybe, but much more efficient economically, power to weight, and mpg.

Chevrolet makes one of the best V8 engines around. The new LT1 makes 465 hp, still uses pushrod and gets over 30 mpg. Thats better than the 6 cylinder Carrera. This thing will also probably get high 20's, pushing over 620 hp and torque and avoid gas guzzler tax. Try purchasing any sports car that can match the performance of the z51 stingray or z06 and get numbers like that...

It just won't happen.

So glad you posted all of this technical information. TY!

As someone else pointed out, GM is sticking with the cam in block design for packaging (DOHC heads move a lot of mass up high and the heads are much larger).

Again, the automatic has to deal with over 600 ft lbs of torque and GM has to warranty it. The Merc SL65BS had over 700 ft lbs and it ran an automatic too.
At least Chevrolet gives you an OPTION if you want an automatic transmission. Porsche completely abandoned the manual in the GT3! Why? Because they said that ultimately the PDK was quicker around the race track. Did Porsche ever ask potential owners if outright lap times would trump the option of a manual gearbox? In the end, there are only two pedals in the Porsche, so it's an automatic, no matter how you look at it. I've driven PDK cars and they're "entertaining" for 5 minutes with the perfectly blipped downshifts, but after that - what's the point. It's boring and not as involved. BMW offered a manual trans in the M5 when owners complained.

Also of note:
I'm not sure you will find the 5 year/ 100,000 mile Powertrain Warranty on ANYTHING that makes this kind of horsepower in a Supercar such as the Z06. Check out the warranty posted right on the GM website for the Z06.
http://www.chevrolet.com/2015-corvet...-supercar.html

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

Also of note:
I'm not sure you will find the 5 year/ 100,000 mile Powertrain Warranty on ANYTHING that makes this kind of horsepower in a Supercar such as the Z06. Check out the warranty posted right on the GM website for the Z06.
http://www.chevrolet.com/2015-corvet...-supercar.html

Such a great point. That should be the nail in the coffin to most other super cars.

I'd like to see a thread on who doesn't like this Z06 and why

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

So glad you posted all of this technical information. TY!

As someone else pointed out, GM is sticking with the cam in block design for packaging (DOHC heads move a lot of mass up high and the heads are much larger).

Again, the automatic has to deal with over 600 ft lbs of torque and GM has to warranty it. The Merc SL65BS had over 700 ft lbs and it ran an automatic too.
At least Chevrolet gives you an OPTION if you want an automatic transmission. Porsche completely abandoned the manual in the GT3! Why? Because they said that ultimately the PDK was quicker around the race track. Did Porsche ever ask potential owners if outright lap times would trump the option of a manual gearbox? In the end, there are only two pedals in the Porsche, so it's an automatic, no matter how you look at it. I've driven PDK cars and they're "entertaining" for 5 minutes with the perfectly blipped downshifts, but after that - what's the point. It's boring and not as involved. BMW offered a manual trans in the M5 when owners complained.

Also of note:
I'm not sure you will find the 5 year/ 100,000 mile Powertrain Warranty on ANYTHING that makes this kind of horsepower in a Supercar such as the Z06. Check out the warranty posted right on the GM website for the Z06.
http://www.chevrolet.com/2015-corvet...-supercar.html

That's how I feel with PDK. I drove a 997.2 with PDK and thought "Wow, this shifts amazing, and it's quick."

Then 10 minutes later I thought "This is pretty boring and my left leg is getting antsy."

But the market reality is no one wants to buy a 6-speed anymore because either they don't want to take the time to learn what a beautiful experience it can be, or they simply don't want to put up with a manual clutch anymore.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by pgviper

Corvette LS3
Weight - 415 lbs
Power - 430 hp
Torque - 424 lb-ft
Efficiency -
16 MPG City
26 MPG HWY
19 MPG Comb
Regular Gasoline

Corvette LS7
Weight - 458lbs
Power - 505 hp
Torque - 470 lb-ft
Efficiency -
15 MPG City
24 MPG HWY
18 MPG Comb
Regular Gasoline


BMW S65
Weight - 445 lbs
Power - 414 hp
Torque - 295 lb-ft
Efficiency -
14 MPG City
20 MPG HWY
16 MPG Comb
Premium Gasoline

Ancient ... maybe, but much more efficient economically, power to weight, and mpg.

Chevrolet makes one of the best V8 engines around. The new LT1 makes 465 hp, still uses pushrod and gets over 30 mpg. Thats better than the 6 cylinder Carrera. This thing will also probably get high 20's, pushing over 620 hp and torque and avoid gas guzzler tax. Try purchasing any sports car that can match the performance of the z51 stingray or z06 and get numbers like that...

It just won't happen.

I'm absolutely not trying to add fuel to the fire, and I love the small block mills that Chevy pumps out, but I want to chime in here since this always gets brought up.

People quote the fuel efficiency of these V8s in relation to their size and whatnot, but let's use the C6, C6 Z06, and E92 M3's figures you posted. Curb weight of these respective models has a lot to do with overall efficiency; the LS3 is pushing 3,179 pounds, while the LS7 is pushing 3,132. Meanwhile, the S65 has to deal with a hair over 3,700 pounds. That's a 570 pound weight difference between the two. That will severely impact fuel economy figures no matter how the engine is made.

Just food for thought.

[Vigilante375]

I can tell you some reasons why since people are easy to judge.

1) No DCT
2) Not AWD
3) Ancient V8 technology
4) Built by GM or it's a Chevrolet
5) Lacks some sort of "creature" comfort

Thats just a start because then you'll find the purist saying that x car will never be outdone by y car.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'm absolutely not trying to add fuel to the fire, and I love the small block mills that Chevy pumps out, but I want to chime in here since this always gets brought up.

People quote the fuel efficiency of these V8s in relation to their size and whatnot, but let's use the C6, C6 Z06, and E92 M3's figures you posted. Curb weight of these respective models has a lot to do with overall efficiency; the LS3 is pushing 3,179 pounds, while the LS7 is pushing 3,132. Meanwhile, the S65 has to deal with a hair over 3,700 pounds. That's a 570 pound weight difference between the two. That will severely impact fuel economy figures no matter how the engine is made.

Just food for thought.

Kinda agree, but the C7 is 3,400 pounds and is still nice and efficient. The S65 hates dead dinosaurs, plain and simple. Not quite as much as the S85, but even if those motors had been in an Elise or Caterham, they wouldn't be returning great mileage numbers.

[Vigilante375]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I'm absolutely not trying to add fuel to the fire, and I love the small block mills that Chevy pumps out, but I want to chime in here since this always gets brought up.

People quote the fuel efficiency of these V8s in relation to their size and whatnot, but let's use the C6, C6 Z06, and E92 M3's figures you posted. Curb weight of these respective models has a lot to do with overall efficiency; the LS3 is pushing 3,179 pounds, while the LS7 is pushing 3,132. Meanwhile, the S65 has to deal with a hair over 3,700 pounds. That's a 570 pound weight difference between the two. That will severely impact fuel economy figures no matter how the engine is made.

Just food for thought.

It also depends on gearing, what kind of transmission and what tune the car has as well.

My 2006 GTO with a LS2, 6 spd and a small cam plus full exhaust (roughly 380 rwhp from the stock 330rwhp mine put down) could get 27 mpg easily while my stock 2012 135i 6 spd can only get 25 mpg.

GTO was around 1800 RPM at 68 while the 135i is somewhere around 2200 RPM at the same speed. The GTO weighs 38xx while the 135i weighs what? Just putting that out there.......

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

I can tell you some reasons why since people are easy to judge.

1) No DCT
2) Not AWD
3) Ancient V8 technology
4) Built by GM or it's a Chevrolet
5) Lacks some sort of "creature" comfort

Thats just a start because then you'll find the purist saying that x car will never be outdone by y car.

I could make a longer hater list for the new M4 just like that.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Kinda agree, but the C7 is 3,400 pounds and is still nice and efficient. The S65 hates dead dinosaurs, plain and simple. Not quite as much as the S85, but even if those motors had been in an Elise or Caterham, they wouldn't be returning great mileage numbers.

I was just point out the significant weight difference. I wonder what kind of figures the S65 could've generated if someone lopped off 15% of the chassis's weight.

Originally Posted by Vigilante375

It also depends on gearing, what kind of transmission and what tune the car has as well.

My 2006 GTO with a 6.0 LS2, 6 spd and a small cam plus full exhaust (roughly 380 rwhp from the stock 330rwhp mine put down) could get 27 mpg easily while my stock 2012 135i 6 spd can only get 25 mpg.

GTO was around 1800 RPM at 68 while the 135i is somewhere around 2200 RPM at the same speed.

Absolutely, gearing will yield great results, which is why it looks like the 7MT in the C7 features the exact same first six speeds as the C6's 6MT plus a giant overdrive gear for seventh.

[Vigilante375]

And the EPA ratings are always off. C6Z's and LS3 C6's can get nearly 30 mpg.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Year's_End

I was just point out the significant weight difference. I wonder what kind of figures the S65 could've generated if someone lopped off 15% of the chassis's weight.

There was no official difference in mileage for the S54 in the E36/8 or the E87 compared to the heavier E46 M3. Since BMW never put the S65 in a lighter car, it's just speculation, but I doubt it would have been a huge improvement. Just out of curiosity, does Weismann list efficiency numbers for their screwball things? Didn't they sell one with the S65?