[c1pher]

Originally Posted by rainfall

not that I can afford a 718 S right now, but ok, i heard enough good comments in this thread about it to consider one in the future, as long as the manual option is still available

You won’t regret it. The six speed is very smooth.

[jeff113]

I could not get over the sound either. Picked up a 981 GTS a few weeks ago to replace a C6 Corvette. Giving up some power vs. a 718 was completely worth it.

I feel that the 981 S/GTS is fast enough for the street. I really like the way the Chevy LS/LT engines sound, but they sound like truck engines compared to the Cayman. Nothing I've owned can match the sound of the flat 6 on the way to its 7800RPM redline.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Sigh. Haters gonna hate. (And swallow what they've been spoon-fed based on what they've read.)

rainfall : See my sig. You will not know the greatness until you actually drive one. Better yet: Drive one either right before or right after a flat-6 Boxster/Cayman.

Then, and only then, will you understand.

NA Flat-6s are nearly dead. Flat-4s are what Porsche started out using long before Subaru did in 1965 -- heck, the original 718 race car made its debut in 1958. My advice is to know your automotive history before comparing something to something else, and consider it before your knee jerks.

Does a flat-4 sound different than a flat-6? Of course they do.
But a V12 sounds different than a V8, which sounds different than a V6, which sound different than a V4 ...
... and an inline 6 sounds different than an inline 4, which sounds different than an inline 3 ...
... and a 4-rotor Wankel sounds different than a 3-rotor Wankel, which sounds different than a 2-rotor Wankel ...
... and a 60-degree V-twin sounds different than a 90-degree V-twin, which sounds different than a one-cylinder thumper ...
... OH!: A water-cooled engine sounds different than an air-cooled engine, too ...

Drive one. And bone up on Porsche history.

LOL, There he is! Took 16 posts to get the ultimate Porsche fanboy into this thread.

I think that it is quite close to a unanimous consensus that the new 4 bangers in the Boxster/Cayman do not sound nearly as nice as the old flat six. Of course the new cars are faster and have substantially more torque, but the bottom line is that they still have a four cylinder engine that sounds terrible.

Sometimes I feel like those who buy the Boxster and Cayman's especially the new 4cyl ones are basically the same people who bought 6cyl Ford Mustangs, only with more money. They feel the need to run around and tell everyone how great their cars are to make themselves feel better about a purchase, that let's be honest, is one made only because the 911 wasn't in the budget.

Of course - here I sit with my 328i, but I am well aware that I was unable to afford an M3 or 335i and I just enjoy the car for what it is.

[saeyedoc]

I had a '12 Cayman S, loved that car. Traded it for my '13 C2S two years ago, had a new 718 Boxster when I took it in for service, fast, but I'd never buy one, didn't like the sound or feel of the new engine.

[Ghosn]

Us F8X owners should be the last to be bagging other exhaust notes .. Just saying.

[mmmmQuattro]

Originally Posted by Funf6cyl

As someone who owns a 718 GTS,
This engine sounds by and large nothing like a Subaru. It screams up top and has a very Motorsport note. To be honest, it’s 100X nicer sounding than my f8x m3 and m4 which made me cringe and also lost power up top.

100X nicer than an f8x ??? - perhaps yours is broken, cause mine sounds great.

The 718 gets to max power at 6,500 rpm and then tapers off slightly - the f8x gets to max power at 5,500 rpm and stays flat right until the 7,500rpm redline - it doesn't lose power up top.

[baege]

Originally Posted by jeff113

I could not get over the sound either. Picked up a 981 GTS a few weeks ago to replace a C6 Corvette. Giving up some power vs. a 718 was completely worth it.

I feel that the 981 S/GTS is fast enough for the street. I really like the way the Chevy LS/LT engines sound, but they sound like truck engines compared to the Cayman. Nothing I've owned can match the sound of the flat 6 on the way to its 7800RPM redline.

my brotha from another motha
I had a 2015 c7 and made the exact same truck vs exotic flat 6 sound reference in my comparison of it with my 2014 cayman s

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by mmmmQuattro

100X nicer than an f8x ??? - perhaps yours is broken, cause mine sounds great.

The 718 gets to max power at 6,500 rpm and then tapers off slightly - the f8x gets to max power at 5,500 rpm and stays flat right until the 7,500rpm redline - it doesn't lose power up top.

That's only true in the marketing materials though. In reality no engine holds a flat hp curve, hence that word. Curve.

[IMG]https://enthusiastnetwork.s3.amazona...icy=entryimage[/IMG]

[Red Bread]

For reference, the 718 S actually looks to be canted more towards redline than the S55.

[IMG]https://www.***********.com/images/i...HEELDYNO-1.jpg[/IMG]

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

LOL, There he is! Took 16 posts to get the ultimate Porsche fanboy into this thread.

I think that it is quite close to a unanimous consensus that the new 4 bangers in the Boxster/Cayman do not sound nearly as nice as the old flat six. Of course the new cars are faster and have substantially more torque, but the bottom line is that they still have a four cylinder engine that sounds terrible.

Sometimes I feel like those who buy the Boxster and Cayman's especially the new 4cyl ones are basically the same people who bought 6cyl Ford Mustangs, only with more money. They feel the need to run around and tell everyone how great their cars are to make themselves feel better about a purchase, that let's be honest, is one made only because the 911 wasn't in the budget.

Of course - here I sit with my 328i, but I am well aware that I was unable to afford an M3 or 335i and I just enjoy the car for what it is.

We typically agree on many topics, but I do not agree that the sound sucks. It’s just different. I would say that it’s the die hard purists who hate change, ridicule the new flat fours. I say so be it, all that matters is that I am happy with how it sounds. Not here to defend but many people have different tastes so some will like it and some will not. I don’t consider myself a fanboy since I simply love cars and have owned many. Despite the sound, the car is still on most car rag top 10 lists, so I’d hardly say it’s like buying a v6 or ecooost mustang. I would argue that most people complaining about the sound have not driven or even actually heard it, they are just the sheep following others who tell them what to think. For the others who have actually experienced the flat four and don’t like it, I respect your opinion but disagree.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by MGM135is

We typically agree on many topics, but I do not agree that the sound sucks. It’s just different. I would say that it’s the die hard purists who hate change, ridicule the new flat fours. I say so be it, all that matters is that I am happy with how it sounds. Not here to defend but many people have different tastes so some will like it and some will not. I don’t consider myself a fanboy since I simply love cars and have owned many. Despite the sound, the car is still on most car rag top 10 lists, so I’d hardly say it’s like buying a v6 or ecooost mustang. I would argue that most people complaining about the sound have not driven or even actually heard it, they are just the sheep following others who tell them what to think. For the others who have actually experienced the flat four and don’t like it, I respect your opinion but disagree.

I probably should have been more clear, because I agree with nearly everything you just posted - and as such, I imagine we are probably on the same path of thinking.

With respect to the sound, I think the better way to have stated it would have been for me to say that it doesn't sound as nice as the flat six, not that it sounds terrible, because you are right - it doesn't. But I think most would agree that the six does sound substantially better.

In addition, I certainly don't think that anyone would compare it to a V6 mustang and I also agree that the new boxster is an awesome car and one I would be happy to own. Where my comments were coming from were not with respect to the car itself, but to certain fanboys (specifically several on this forum) and how they always feel the need to 'justify' the purchase.

I think we all need to be honest here and say that while the 718 is a great car, very very few people buy it when they could have easily afforded the 991. They buy it because it is nearly half the price of the 991.

[baege]

Originally Posted by 6ixSpd

My brother has a 718 and the sound is palatable at best... however, the performance of the car is fantastic and undeniable. My father has a 981 GTS and I'd take the keys to that one every single time. I have hundreds of hours of seat time in both, in every driving situation imaginable (commuting, back road thrashing, track) and I'd take the 981 10 times out of 10, but that my personal preference for the sonour flat 6 revving out to almost 8K RPM. Both chassis are ridiculously capable performers that I consider it a wash. The only thing the 718 does better is power/torque. The 981 was the best of them all in my opinion - the 718 GT4 notwithstanding.

If I didn't have my E92 M3, the 981 GTS would be a seriously strong contender albeit pricier. I'd never buy any 718 even if I was in the market, other than the GT4.

I think your post is one of the most informative out there...you are not tainted by any particular ownership bias and have considerable seat time in both

for what its worth...despite having had 2 981S I have never even driven a 718...zero interest based on automotive journalists who I respect and who share similar views as yours

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I think we all need to be honest here and say that while the 718 is a great car, very very few people buy it when they could have easily afforded the 991. They buy it because it is nearly half the price of the 991.

I love your assumptions.

I am aware of literally dozens of folks who could afford both -- myself included -- and chose a 718. In almost every case, it's about what kind of car those people wanted, not about how much car those people could afford.

I know of case after case after case of basically this scenario: 'I got the 718 2.0 / S / GTS because I couldn't justify spending $20-$30k more for a 911. I couldn't be happier'.

Are there folks who opt to upgrade to a 911 after having a 718? Sure. I know of one person who went from a Cayman S to a 991.2 GT4. But guess what?
His wife just bought a 718 Boxster GTS. What does that tell you?

As for sound: yes, the flat-6 sounds great. To most, it sounds better than a flat-4. Not gonna sugarcoat that. But I and many others buy cars that perform first, not sound great first -- to me, a great sounding engine is merely a bonus. Those that only consider cars that sound great first -- i.e., who discount a car such as the 718 because of sound alone -- are basically vain posers.

All of the above is why I say drive a 718 before passing judgment -- especially if you can drive a 981 either right before or right after. After that, if you don't care for it, no worries. It's not for everyone.

But pretty much all of the auto mags that lambasted the 718's engine sound in the beginning -- even over-the-top UK rags such as Autocar -- have come around and have nothing but praise abut the car now. I wonder why that is?

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I love your assumptions.

I am aware of literally dozens of folks who could afford both -- myself included -- and chose a 718. In almost every case, it's about what kind of car those people wanted, not about how much car those people could afford.

I know of case after case after case of basically this scenario: 'I got the 718 2.0 / S / GTS because I couldn't justify spending $20-$30k more for a 911. I couldn't be happier'.

Are there folks who opt to upgrade to a 911 after having a 718? Sure. I know of one person who went from a Cayman S to a 991.2 GT4. But guess what?
His wife just bought a 718 Boxster GTS. What does that tell you?

As for sound: yes, the flat-6 sounds great. To most, it sounds better than a flat-4. Not gonna sugarcoat that. But I and many others buy cars that perform first, not sound great first -- to me, a great sounding engine is merely a bonus. Those that only consider cars that sound great first -- i.e., who discount a car such as the 718 because of sound alone -- are basically vain posers.

All of the above is why I say drive a 718 before passing judgment -- especially if you can drive a 981 either right before or right after. After that, if you don't care for it, no worries. It's not for everyone.

But pretty much all of the auto mags that lambasted the 718's engine sound in the beginning -- even over-the-top UK rags such as Autocar -- have come around and have nothing but praise abut the car now. I wonder why that is?

I believe that I have said countless times that the 718 is probably a better car than the 981 and that it is quite a bit quicker as well and certainly has more torque. I don't think that is in question.

This thread related to the sound of the engine, which is nearly undisputed in not being as nice to hear as the old flat six.

With respect to your choices - you enjoy what you own, but don't fool yourself, I would imagine that if the 911 was the exact same price as the 718, it is the one you would have purchased.

Could you "afford" the 911? Perhaps, I don't know you, but there is a big difference between 'affording' and 'a wise financial decision'.

Me personally? I am currently in the market for a particular Italian car. I am looking at the older model (a 2001 model year). Why? Because in my mind, I cannot spend the money on the one I really want - the newer version (2013 model year). Could I technically buy a more expensive newer one? Sure. But would it be smart to purchase car for what would amount to more than my annual salary? Of course not, that would be a stupid financial move. So end result - I cannot really afford that car.

[Black Sunshine]

I'll play along with this discussion. I do not think the 718 sounds bad, especially considering it is 4cyl. I do prefer the sound from the 981 though. I might be one of the odd people out here, but I factor sound into a car purchase. I drive over 35k a year, and a very large chunk of that is my commute. I am lucky though as I do have some very nice driving roads close to me. My daily is an Audi Q5 with the 2.0T, it is comfortable and suits my needs but even that has an AWE exhaust and sport cat. I traded a 2012 Camaro convertible SS manual with full exhaust in for the 235i. It will never sound like the Camaro did, even after my exhaust work is done and I'm fine with that. Again, the whole "American vs Exotic" debate. The 235i is not a daily driver, but a fun car that I can drive to work or on the weekends. It is also a convertible so I think the sound is even more important. Some people buy cars and could care less what they sound like, even people buying something like Porsche, BMW, Ferrari etc... Each person also has an opinion on what they think sounds good. Once the house is paid off, I will probably splurge and get something exotic. If the car does not appeal to my taste in sound though, I don't care how good the car may be as it will not be on my list.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

I believe that I have said countless times that the 718 is probably a better car than the 981 and that it is quite a bit quicker as well and certainly has more torque. I don't think that is in question.

This thread related to the sound of the engine, which is nearly undisputed in not being as nice to hear as the old flat six.

With respect to your choices - you enjoy what you own, but don't fool yourself, I would imagine that if the 911 was the exact same price as the 718, it is the one you would have purchased.

Could you "afford" the 911? Perhaps, I don't know you, but there is a big difference between 'affording' and 'a wise financial decision'.

Me personally? I am currently in the market for a particular Italian car. I am looking at the older model (a 2001 model year). Why? Because in my mind, I cannot spend the money on the one I really want - the newer version (2013 model year). Could I technically buy a more expensive newer one? Sure. But would it be smart to purchase car for what would amount to more than my annual salary? Of course not, that would be a stupid financial move. So end result - I cannot really afford that car.

I think you are off base with your 718 people not being able to afford a 911 comment. Im sure that is the case for some people, but most I would imagine chose the 718 because they simply enjoyed it more and it fit their needs better. One is a 4 seat rear engine car and the other a 2 seat mid engine car. Its like saying people only buy an M3 because they cant afford an M5. A lot of people prefer a smaller, more nimble car vs a larger GT car.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by gatorfast

I think you are off base with your 718 people not being able to afford a 911 comment. Im sure that is the case for some people, but most I would imagine chose the 718 because they simply enjoyed it more and it fit their needs better. One is a 4 seat rear engine car and the other a 2 seat mid engine car. Its like saying people only buy an M3 because they cant afford an M5. A lot of people prefer a smaller, more nimble car vs a larger GT car.

Meh, the 911 is hardly a 4 seat car. I've driven them at length and even my 4yo daughter can't really fit back there. I'll give you mid engine vs rear engine, but I doubt more than 1-2% of the 718 buyers chose it over the 911 because of that. As for size, they are nearly identical.

991: 176"L x 71"W x 51"H
718: 173"L x 71"W x 50"H

Not really a disparaging difference and certainly a smaller difference than the M3 vs M5 comment.

[saeyedoc]

They may be close in size, but the 911 feels much less cramped inside. The mid engine cars handle better, but the 911 puts down the traction much better.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by usshelena725

With respect to your choices - you enjoy what you own, but don't fool yourself, I would imagine that if the 911 was the exact same price as the 718, it is the one you would have purchased.

Could you "afford" the 911? Perhaps, I don't know you, but there is a big difference between 'affording' and 'a wise financial decision'.

In my case, it was basically the same price because I cross-shopped a 2014-15 991.1 Carrera, a 2015-16 981 Cayman S, and a brand new (ended up being a first-run 2018) 718 Cayman. You know what I chose. So it was not the one I purchased -- in fact, it was last of the three by a considerable margin.

So now you know that I had a budget, and I stuck with that budget. Your insinuation that I didn't make 'a wise financial decision' is offensive. I don't know you, either, sir, but you really have no right to pass that kind of judgment on someone you don't know. It's absolutely none of your business and has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand.

[Run Silent]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

In my case, it was basically the same price because I cross-shopped a 2014-15 991.1 Carrera, a 2015-16 981 Cayman S, and a brand new (ended up being a first-run 2018) 718 Cayman. You know what I chose. So it was not the one I purchased -- in fact, it was last of the three by a considerable margin.

So now you know that I had a budget, and I stuck with that budget. Your insinuation that I didn't make 'a wise financial decision' is offensive. I don't know you, either, sir, but you really have no right to pass that kind of judgment on someone you don't know. It's absolutely none of your business and has absolutely nothing to do with the matter at hand.

LOL - good for you, man!

[jimbobiggens]

All this talk about sound, forgive me for posting this, can't help it My 18yr old truck

[mmmmQuattro]

it's a bit like the PDK/DCT vs MT argument - one is technically better, but some people prefer the other.

a turbo motor now does everything better than a NA motor, but just look at the used prices for 997s, 981s E92s etc - there's still a strong demand for NA motors, especially the ones that rev and sound ?better?