[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by snareman

Yes please. How much?

DM me what do you need.
Full speaker system or just the AMP?
I assume that you are on HK?

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Almost called you out on that r33_RGSport but figured everyone on the thread already knew that based on it plus previous threads in which you and I discussed MATCH.

[ikonn]

Ok, so this might sound crazy, but after early disappointment with the HK and posting complaints about the insufficient bass response from the subs and how such an expensive car could have such a mediocre sound system, I think I have a change of heart. Maybe.

Originally, I agreed that switching off the Logic 7 Surround option was the first thing that you should do. It sounded so false to me. I then suggested pumping up the bass (specifically the 100Hz and 200Hz bands) in the graphic EQ and pumping up the Bass on the main Tone screen. That seemed to be the only way to get any semblance of subsonic thump. Like I said, I need to feel my music, not just hear it.

But as time passed, those settings that seemed ok (barely) when tested in a garage became disagreeable in real life driving where there was just too much artificial bass boominess in the sound. It just gave me a headache and a resignation to install one of the recommended sub speaker options (Bavsound, Bimmertech, Audiotec-Fischer Match).

Then, in a fit of final desperation, I tried tuning the settings one more time. My HK now sounds decent. Perhaps, more than decent.

And it all started with switching ON the Logic 7 processor. Heresy, yes to some, but perhaps this algorithm actually does something useful and is not just marketing bull.

Further, I suspect that the HK sound quality is unexpectedly impacted by the Speed Dependent Volume algorithm, and possibly by Active Sound Design. The former I can test but the latter is not fully defeatable unless I Bimmercode it off (which i will not be doing soon).

I intend to do a bit more testing and then I will post my settings. As I said, crazy.

[Ghostrider641]

Originally Posted by snareman

Yes please. How much?

I’d need an installer in Denver, or somewhere fun to drive thrown in lol

[Ghostrider641]

When you have it dialed in best you can, 0lease give us all the step by step,and settings…thanks

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

I’d need an installer in Denver, or somewhere fun to drive thrown in lol

Why not??
I got customer from Denver drove down to me.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by ikonn

And it all started with switching ON the Logic 7 processor. Heresy, yes to some, but perhaps this algorithm actually does something useful and is not just marketing bull.

Perhaps not heresy as my experience is with the HK in my wife's X5. Different car, different amp/DSP so your MMV.

Originally Posted by ikonn

Further, I suspect that the HK sound quality is unexpectedly impacted by the Speed Dependent Volume algorithm, and possibly by Active Sound Design. The former I can test but the latter is not fully defeatable unless I Bimmercode it off (which i will not be doing [...]

The speed dependant volume should not adversely effect the overall sound aka EQ settings, etc. but only slightly increase the volume depending on the speed.

Can't speak for the Active Sound outside of at least with the B&W when I hit 40% plus it squelches it (all comes from the rear). At lower volumes then I hear it more pronounced but once again doesn't change the sound stage of the actual audio.

[ikonn]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

The speed dependant volume should not adversely effect the overall sound aka EQ settings, etc. but only slightly increase the volume depending on the speed.

Yah, maybe not adversely affecting the sound, but it does seem to have some sort of impact. My complaint has been ‘not enough bass from the subs’. This is still true with engine off, or engine on and not driving. But then I noticed that at around 40 mph / 65 kmh, the SDV kicks in and suddenly the subs sound better. You engineers out there can explain it, but my speculation is that the sub amps do not kick in until a certain signal level voltage hits them and you can get this either with high volume (or low freq EQ) levels or when the SDV triggers a sound boost.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Yah, maybe not adversely affecting the sound, but it does seem to have some sort of impact. My complaint has been ‘not enough bass from the subs’. This is still true with engine off, or engine on and not driving. But then I noticed that at around 40 mph / 65 kmh, the SDV kicks in and suddenly the subs sound better. You engineers out there can explain it, but my speculation is that the sub amps do not kick in until a certain signal level voltage hits them and you can get this either with high volume (or low freq EQ) levels or when the SDV triggers a sound boost.

Well with any audio system it takes a certain volume to open up the soundstage. With the B&W that is 40 percent volume at a minimum. When I drive my wife's X5 solo with HK definitely 50 percent. The SDV doesn't change the EQ whatsoever but just increases the volume based on speed to overcome road noise, etc.

As an experiment start out at 50 and see if that changes the overall soundstage (which bass is a part of). That said on my outgoing Lexus it's SDV tried to kick in the equivalent of Logic 7. In my experience with the HK in my wife's 2017 X5 that is not a good thing but at least one forum member has called out better bass experience in an 8-series with HK and it's engagement

[M8Bimmer]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Yah, maybe not adversely affecting the sound, but it does seem to have some sort of impact. My complaint has been ‘not enough bass from the subs’. This is still true with engine off, or engine on and not driving. But then I noticed that at around 40 mph / 65 kmh, the SDV kicks in and suddenly the subs sound better. You engineers out there can explain it, but my speculation is that the sub amps do not kick in until a certain signal level voltage hits them and you can get this either with high volume (or low freq EQ) levels or when the SDV triggers a sound boost.

I've got the SDV turned off in my car. But I agree with you on the sub comments. I also feel the subs seem quite muted at lower volumes. At higher levels they seem to be "there" much more. This can be true of high end home systems as well though. Most of us feel the bass better at higher levels....of course. Yes I could EQ in more bass but then it become too much a higher volumes. That's why I prefer a separate sub box and easy to access handy level control. I've just found that combo sounds better. In that setup you can add some overall bass increase at a lower levels and fine tune it when listening louder. In my 2 vehicles with that setup the bass is better overall than the B&W. But at higher levels the B&W subs sound good and tight. Just not enough at lower volumes.

[M8Bimmer]

I know it's only a dream but I feel the B&W system needs a sperate gain control on those under seat subs. That would be a big improvement but of course will never happen.

[ikonn]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Well with any audio system it takes a certain volume to open up the soundstage. With the B&W that is 40 percent volume at a minimum. When I drive my wife's X5 solo with HK definitely 50 percent. The SDV doesn't change the EQ whatsoever but just increases the volume based on speed to overcome road noise, etc.

As an experiment start out at 50 and see if that changes the overall soundstage (which bass is a part of). That said on my outgoing Lexus it's SDV tried to kick in the equivalent of Logic 7. In my experience with the HK in my wife's 2017 X5 that is not a good thing but at least one forum member has called out better bass experience in an 8-series with HK and it's engagement

I think we’re arriving to the same point. I am not saying that the SDV impacts EQ settings directly. However, if the sub amps require an input voltage that only occurs at 40-50% volume, then with a master volume below 40-50%, the SDV volume boost could push the input signal of the low frequencies such that the sub amp is triggered. In other words, in this ‘lower volume’ situation, the SDV will have a disproportionate impact on sub frequencies because it switches on the sub amp.

I have no clue if any of this is right. But since my normal master volume is relatively low (20-30% of the horizontal volume graph?), it might make sense that SDV triggers the subs.

Yes, I can test with different volumes and also with SDV low and high.

[ikonn]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

I've got the SDV turned off in my car.

Cool, how do you switch it off? I only have a control with - and +. Will moving the (virtual) slider all the way to the - left switch it off entirely?

[ikonn]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

Yes I could EQ in more bass but then it become too much a higher volumes.

Totally agree, dialling in just more bass makes it way too boomy at higher levels.

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

I know it's only a dream but I feel the B&W system needs a sperate gain control on those under seat subs. That would be a big improvement but of course will never happen.

So one easy solution to all of this is just to give us one more frequency range to adjust: something at 50Hz might do the trick! There’s your sub gain control!

The next question is of course, what is the crossover frequency for the OEM subs.

[M8Bimmer]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Cool, how do you switch it off? I only have a control with - and +. Will moving the (virtual) slider all the way to the - left switch it off entirely?

Well to be honest it's been so long since I did it you have me wondering now too. I'll check next time I'm in the car and I have a minute.

[M8Bimmer]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Totally agree, dialling in just more bass makes it way too boomy at higher levels.



So one easy solution to all of this is just to give us one more frequency range to adjust: something at 50Hz might do the trick! There’s your sub gain control!

The next question is of course, what is the crossover frequency for the OEM subs.

I agree the EQ section is limited in it choices of frequencies. More choice in the lower octaves would be nice. Yup for quickness and ease of use a separate gain is great. It was easy when you had a separate amp for the sub box. It's nice when the EQ-ing you did can stay the same and just adjust the gain/volume on the sub on it's own. I do that in my home systems and it works well. You can kind of make it how you like it easily without screwing with settings and such. It's sufficient most of time for me anyway. A little more bass or a little less. Easy with a gain control.
That one fellow here built a box in the trunk. I bet he has an easy to get to gain control.

[__AD__]

There's some perceived truth to SDV and bass level from my experience anyway. I feel the bass is stronger at lower volumes and dies as you increase the volume (while the highs/mids continue to increase). I have a bug with SDV where on certain songs with strong, rhythmic bass, it will randomly start increasing volume and/or certain frequencies until you have to manually turn the volume down because it sounds garbled. Turning SDV all the way down alleviates or masks the issue. When the bug activates, the bass is super high and ironically shows what it's capable of.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Cool, how do you switch it off? I only have a control with - and +. Will moving the (virtual) slider all the way to the - left switch it off entirely?

For grins on today's drive to the office when bored at a stoplight I went into the sound settings and focused on SDV. Mine has been forever set to flat aka default middle but not tick box or anything else to just turn it off. Perhaps a Bimmercode option?

Either way on "flat" it doesn't appear to do a damn thing at least for me with the B&W system. I say that as when the wife's in the car like the recent road trip to the white mountains the volume never leaves the default setting (guessing 20% but definitely a Bimmercode option). Driving 85MPH on the freeway didn't increase the volume whatsoever (believe me if it did I would have gotten an earful and not from the sound system &#128540.

So perhaps there is more of a tie to HK than B&W but even in that case if you go full left aka minimum one would expect it to be either nearly if not fully defeated.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by ikonn

Totally agree, dialling in just more bass makes it way too boomy at higher levels.

So one easy solution to all of this is just to give us one more frequency range to adjust: something at 50Hz might do the trick! There’s your sub gain control!

The next question is of course, what is the crossover frequency for the OEM subs.

I checked the EQ and to your point their is no frequency assigned to the "bass" slider with the next one being 100Hz. So guessing it is at least 50Hz but that may depend on the crossover. The B&W specs claim the following:

1,400 watts of audio power, 10 fully active amplification channels, QuantumLogic Surround/Dynamic Sound Equalizing via measuring microphone and three analog crossover networks for consistent sound quality.

However, I did find the following back in 2019 when doing the research and the URL is still live: https://s3.amazonaws.com/cms.ipressroom.com/214/files/20192/2019-03+BMW+8Series_Bowers+_+Wilkins.pdf

The doc defines the subs as 8.5" using now legacy Rohacell construction (the 800 series moved on from that with the D1s) but easily handling down to 20Hz. Interestingly enough the Bavsound sub kit for the 8-series does not claim a driver size but does claim "Our woofers are 10 dB+ louder from 20Hz to 60Hz vs factory woofers". That louder claim equals they are more efficient than the HK's, i.e., more sound dBs per watt than the HK and guess their testing proves that.

The million dollar question though is whether the HK system has 2 or 3 crossovers. If 2 that could be why one ends up with "boomy" bass at higher levels as one of the crossovers is driving all frequencies below X to both the mids and the subs. With 3 crossovers anything below 50Hz would only go to the subs.

[autobahnscott]

Over the last 16 months I really tried to "like" my Harman/Hardon system. I felt like this is an 8 series, it should be a decent sound system. I couldn't get the B&W when I ordered my 2022 convertible so I just figured I'd live with it even though I knew it was lacking compared to other cars I've owned. The problem in one word was - distortion. A longer definition would be distortion and lack of bass.

Finally a couple of weeks ago I had enough. I had done a little research on BAVSOUND and Bimmertech speaker replacements and decided to pull the trigger. I got BimmerTech not because I thought they were better but because there BimmerTech installer was closer to my house than the BAVSOUND installer (but closer guy could have done either). And there's no real way to determine which is better unless you try them.

So I'm two days in now. For those that say the HK speakers are fine, well maybe, but these replacement speakers are noticeably better. I was impressed by the reduction in distortion and the increase in pleasant sounding bass. I would do it again knowing what I know now.

The only one remaining problem is I still have to crank the volume to about 75% to get listenable sound. That tells me maybe the amp is a little under powered. Neither Bavsound or Bimmertech has a replacement amp right now. I called Bimmertech customer service yesterday and the rep I spoke to said he thinks they have one coming out very soon. I should get confirmation on that next week.

Even without the amp upgrade replacement the subs and other speakers was definitely worthwhile. I do have the bimmercode B&W DSP coding and like someone else said "Concert" seems to be the best of the bunch.

If a replacement Bimmertech amp is available I think I will get it and hopefully that will put me on par sound wise with the original B&W I missed out on.

Three questions for the group:
1) does anyone know the wattage of the stock HK system?
2) It seems like both BAVSOUND and Bimmertech may be on the verge of releasing amps for the G chasis BMW's. Has anyone done research on differences between BAVSOUND, Bimmertech, and Audio Fischer?
3) Does Audio Fischer have a plug & play unit today?

Thanks everyone!

[Kansr]

Originally Posted by autobahnscott

Three questions for the group:
1) does anyone know the wattage of the stock HK system?

464

[njfoses]

Originally Posted by autobahnscott

Over the last 16 months I really tried to "like" my Harman/Hardon system. I felt like this is an 8 series, it should be a decent sound system. I couldn't get the B&W when I ordered my 2022 convertible so I just figured I'd live with it even though I knew it was lacking compared to other cars I've owned. The problem in one word was - distortion. A longer definition would be distortion and lack of bass.

Finally a couple of weeks ago I had enough. I had done a little research on BAVSOUND and Bimmertech speaker replacements and decided to pull the trigger. I got BimmerTech not because I thought they were better but because there BimmerTech installer was closer to my house than the BAVSOUND installer (but closer guy could have done either). And there's no real way to determine which is better unless you try them.

So I'm two days in now. For those that say the HK speakers are fine, well maybe, but these replacement speakers are noticeably better. I was impressed by the reduction in distortion and the increase in pleasant sounding bass. I would do it again knowing what I know now.

The only one remaining problem is I still have to crank the volume to about 75% to get listenable sound. That tells me maybe the amp is a little under powered. Neither Bavsound or Bimmertech has a replacement amp right now. I called Bimmertech customer service yesterday and the rep I spoke to said he thinks they have one coming out very soon. I should get confirmation on that next week.

Even without the amp upgrade replacement the subs and other speakers was definitely worthwhile. I do have the bimmercode B&W DSP coding and like someone else said "Concert" seems to be the best of the bunch.

If a replacement Bimmertech amp is available I think I will get it and hopefully that will put me on par sound wise with the original B&W I missed out on.

Three questions for the group:
1) does anyone know the wattage of the stock HK system?
2) It seems like both BAVSOUND and Bimmertech may be on the verge of releasing amps for the G chasis BMW's. Has anyone done research on differences between BAVSOUND, Bimmertech, and Audio Fischer?
3) Does Audio Fischer have a plug & play unit today?

Thanks everyone!

I believe the bimmertech amp is available already. It's the new alpha one and is $1699.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by njfoses

I believe the bimmertech amp is available already. It's the new alpha one and is $1699.

Yes, looks like it's on the market now vs the original Alpha that did not support OABR so iD6 or less. Had to use a VIN off a 2023 M850i on cars.com as although in Bimmertech you can generally just state the year and model for the Alpha One audio it forces a VIN. Using my VIN it does indicate iD7 or greater but states not compatible due to the B&W. With the 2023 and stock HK it states fully compatible.