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      03-13-2018, 10:26 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
Milk heritage?!?!!
We have milk. We invented milk. We have the best milk. You know it. I know it. Everyone knows it.


I rather think they will develop some form of consensus. This is kinda spy games and while tragic is not atypical. We kill theirs. They kill ours. This isn't work for the faint of heart. I'm not being cavalier but realistic.
Using a nerve agent is not game as usual. Since we have not responded resolutely enough in past instances of Russian aggression, they (Putin especially) feels they can act as if there are no consequences. There must be consequences, and they must be severe. If I were England, I would break diplomatic relations with Russia, seize all Russian property in England, boycott the world cup, and invoke article 5, and go from there.

It's currently 2:38pm in London, 4:38 in Finland, 5:38 in Moscow. 11+ hours to go. Will this be 1914 all over again. ?
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      03-13-2018, 10:39 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Using a nerve agent is not game as usual. Since we have not responded resolutely enough in past instances of Russian aggression, they (Putin especially) feels they can act as if there are no consequences. There must be consequences, and they must be severe. If I were England, I would break diplomatic relations with Russia, seize all Russian property in England, boycott the world cup, and invoke article 5, and go from there.
It actually is for them. They have done it before:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...oad/ar-BBJY6mu
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

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      03-13-2018, 10:44 AM   #47
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But, the US didn't even make it to the WC , how can we support England in this????
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      03-13-2018, 10:55 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
It actually is for them. They have done it before:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world...oad/ar-BBJY6mu
Not using a nerve agent. Ricin and polonium-210 poisoning are not good ways to go, but Novichok is not only several times of magnitude more dangerous, it was DESIGNED not to be detected. Luckily we (the west) are more advanced to detect this sort of thing than Russia suspected.
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      03-13-2018, 12:01 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Not using a nerve agent. Ricin and polonium-210 poisoning are not good ways to go, but Novichok is not only several times of magnitude more dangerous, it was DESIGNED not to be detected. Luckily we (the west) are more advanced to detect this sort of thing than Russia suspected.
Nerve agents and radiologics occupy the same level in the pantheon of deadly agents whether they are used on the individual or macro level.
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

Fair and objective hearings don't take place in secret.
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      03-13-2018, 12:04 PM   #50
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Nerve agents and radiologics occupy the same level in the pantheon of deadly agents whether they are used on the individual or macro level.
Soooo, we should have responded more forcfully back then, or let it go now?

And no, they are not the same danger level. Sit me in a room with some ricin or polonium, I'm ok, not really nervous. Sit me in a room with Novichok, I am terrified. Though not for long. I would be dead soon.
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      03-13-2018, 12:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Soooo, we should have responded more forcfully back then, or let it go now?

And no, they are not the same danger level. Sit me in a room with some ricin or polonium, I'm ok, not really nervous. Sit me in a room with Novichok, I am terrified. Though not for long. I would be dead soon.
The former. Novichok is a contact nerve agent. It doesn't do anything until you contact is or if it is aerosolized, which I don't know if it can be designed to do. It also requires mixing onsite. I'd rather be in a room with it than any radiologic. Avoid radiologics at all cost.
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Hell, I get random sausage attacks when I go anywhere.

Several actors have played James Bond, Sean Connery IS James Bond...

Fair and objective hearings don't take place in secret.
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      03-13-2018, 12:30 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by MKSixer View Post
The former. Novichok is a contact nerve agent. It doesn't do anything until you contact is or if it is aerosolized, which I don't know if it can be designed to do. It also requires mixing onsite. I'd rather be in a room with it than any radiologic. Avoid radiologics at all cost.
It comes in many forms. It can be ready to use or binary, there are several variants. Powder, aerosol, and others. Much worse than the other substances discussed here.
The effects of a nerve agent like novichok were realistically shown on "Homeland" when Peter Quinn was exposed to a nerve agent. I pray the 3 affected by this obscene substance aren't afflicted long term like he was depicted in the series.
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      03-13-2018, 07:26 PM   #53
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      03-14-2018, 02:20 PM   #54
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It appears as if the Brits were serious. Now we need to wait to see how trump comments.
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      03-14-2018, 02:21 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
It comes in many forms. It can be ready to use or binary, there are several variants. Powder, aerosol, and others. Much worse than the other substances discussed here.
The effects of a nerve agent like novichok were realistically shown on "Homeland" when Peter Quinn was exposed to a nerve agent. I pray the 3 affected by this obscene substance aren't afflicted long term like he was depicted in the series.
That wasn't pretty.
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      03-14-2018, 02:29 PM   #56
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It appears as if the Brits were serious. Now we need to wait to see how trump comments.
Were they? Expelling 23 "diplomats" that weren't already suppose to be there.
No Queen at the World cup?
Hopefully a better response is coming.
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      03-14-2018, 02:35 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
Were they? Expelling 23 "diplomats" that weren't already suppose to be there.
No Queen at the World cup?
Hopefully a better response is coming.
They also banned them from warm greetings and biscuits.

I haven't read it yet, but the way it sounded in the news here was that there were more to it than what you listed.
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      03-14-2018, 03:25 PM   #58
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Yeah, it was a comrade !
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      03-14-2018, 03:53 PM   #59
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http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...t5R&ocid=ientp

In this day and age, I don't see these actions as all that consequential. But Mrs. May may not be done yet.
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      03-14-2018, 03:55 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Real Dodger View Post
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/...t5R&ocid=ientp

In this day and age, I don't see these actions as all that consequential. But Mrs. May may not be done yet.
Let's hope she's not, WH is still quiet as a mouse about this topic.
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      03-15-2018, 06:54 AM   #61
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Quote:
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Were they? Expelling 23 "diplomats" that weren't already suppose to be there.
No Queen at the World cup?
Hopefully a better response is coming.
What did I say earlier in the thread? I said we'd do nothing as there isn't much we can do to the big bear.

We need support from our European "allies" but they are weak and not interested especially Germany (since they shut down their nuclear power plants and rely on Russian gas)

You only have to look at the Ukraine to see how quickly they ran off when Russia arrived (but not before they made them get rid of their nuclear weapons) lots of useful idiots in the EU.
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      03-15-2018, 07:03 AM   #62
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What did I say earlier in the thread? I said we'd do nothing as there isn't much we can do to the big bear.

We need support from our European "allies" but they are weak and not interested especially Germany (since they shut down their nuclear power plants and rely on Russian gas)

You only have to look at the Ukraine to see how quickly they ran off when Russia arrived (but not before they made them get rid of their nuclear weapons) lots of useful idiots in the EU.
London is the main hub to launder the Russian money and I bet closing that wouldn't be too much work and germany is in a world of pain with their energy sources for sure but our power grids here are good enough for them to get their energy elsewhere while they kick up their own production.

Yes, this will hurt like hell but if the EU doesn't act now, it'll hurt even more later. I agree on the useful idiots.
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      03-15-2018, 10:05 AM   #63
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Were they? Expelling 23 "diplomats" that weren't already suppose to be there.
No Queen at the World cup?
Hopefully a better response is coming.
What did I say earlier in the thread? I said we'd do nothing as there isn't much we can do to the big bear.

We need support from our European "allies" but they are weak and not interested especially Germany (since they shut down their nuclear power plants and rely on Russian gas)

You only have to look at the Ukraine to see how quickly they ran off when Russia arrived (but not before they made them get rid of their nuclear weapons) lots of useful idiots in the EU.
That's the kind of attitude that disappoints me in the British response. If you hit a bully in the nose, they back down. If you don't, that allows the bad behavior to continue.
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      03-15-2018, 10:27 AM   #64
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I loved all the comments months back about "why would Russia care if Trump were elected over anyone else? What's in it for them?" Our #1 BFF on the world stage has Soviet nerve agents used on their turf and our president is 100% silent on the matter. Even our Secretary of State isn't commenting on...oh wait...

IMO it's becoming quite clear what Russia gains by a Trump presidency: Absolute loyalty and the ability to act without consequence. Where are those sanctions again that something like 98% of Congress voted for?
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      03-15-2018, 10:33 AM   #65
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Quote:
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That's the kind of attitude that disappoints me in the British response. If you hit a bully in the nose, they back down. If you don't, that allows the bad behavior to continue.
Chipmunk just released new sanctions again Russians.

I never thought I'd see the day
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      03-15-2018, 10:34 AM   #66
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That was not intentional, I fucked up the spelling and autocorrect did that
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