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      08-08-2017, 06:09 PM   #23
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Great joke, a little late for April fools.

Ev wont be adopted anywhere near the rate to make that delusion happen.


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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
As above. Britain and France have already announced, no new cars with ICEs from 2040. The rest of Europe is following.
Not really, unless the fascists at the EU already bribed/forced all others. I have serious doubts.
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      08-09-2017, 04:39 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
There's no "not really" about it! It's happening as we speak!
Yes because never in history has one government been voted out and a new one reversed their policies.

Much of Europe is honestly too broke or poor to do it that fast. Hell i don't hear Italy being all gung ho about it, or Spain Poland Russia ex.
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      08-09-2017, 08:23 AM   #25
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Going from less than 1% to 100% in less than 10 years, unlikely but it does put them in the news. Marketing at it's best, people like to hear it, they talk about it, company makes no real changes from what they are already doing and all at zero cost.

Still no viable solution without ICE for anyone that wants to make a long driving trip (me very often for work). Turn 10 hour days into a 12 hour days and spend hours at the "fueling stations".
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      08-09-2017, 08:50 AM   #26
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People's willingness to believe technology is ready when it is not absolutely staggers me.

We are a solid 25 to 30 years away from any significant change in transportation propulsion and i include autonomous vehicle sin that.
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      08-09-2017, 09:07 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
I think you'll find the US is the tree in the forrest that is the rest of the world.
Ahem ... China might want to talk to you about that ...
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      08-09-2017, 11:15 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
China is already ahead. Did you not see the announcement from Volvo?
Ahead of what? And what does Volvo's announcement have to do with China?

Dude, we're talking trees vs. forest. OK, here's one for you: India. Second biggest tree in the forest with what's considered one of the world's worst post-industrial infrastructures. Please, please, oh PLEASE tell me how EVs will be viable there when it can't even figure out how to tax its own citizenry, much less pave proper roads.

:: drops mic, shakes head ::
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      08-09-2017, 11:20 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David70 View Post
Going from less than 1% to 100% in less than 10 years, unlikely but it does put them in the news. Marketing at it's best, people like to hear it, they talk about it, company makes no real changes from what they are already doing and all at zero cost.

Still no viable solution without ICE for anyone that wants to make a long driving trip (me very often for work). Turn 10 hour days into a 12 hour days and spend hours at the "fueling stations".
10 years ago, there was no such thing as a smart phone. A lot can change in 10 years.
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      08-09-2017, 11:24 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
Maybe the news from Europe passes you by. I assure you governments are moving fast. Local air quality is a big political issue.
It's a big political issue because it's easy to latch onto by politicians eager to be seen doing something positive by their populaces. Europe has much, much, much larger issues -- the problem is those issues are kryptonite to even broach publicly because they are so complex, the general populace has little capacity to understand them.

Want an example? Brexit. I see that you're in Manchester. Congratulations to your populace to shooting your Commonwealth's economic potential squarely in the foot for the next 10-15 years. And congratulations on the eventuality that Scotland and Northern Ireland will leave the UK within five years.

As for EVs ... Sure, England can force them on the populace. The UK, however, can't force them on, say, Australia's populace, or Canada's. You know what the two biggest problems to EV viability are in those two places? Climate and distance. The UK has neither issue.

Develop some foresight, and start looking at larger pictures. Both skills comes in handy.
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      08-09-2017, 11:28 AM   #31
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You weren't aware that Volvo is a Chinese company???
A holding company is far, far different from an actual corporation.

Case in point: 7-Eleven. Owned by a Japanese holding company since 1990. So you'd think all 7-Eleven stores cater to a Japanese market, right?

Please, oh, PLEASE get a clue.
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      08-09-2017, 12:25 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech View Post
10 years ago, there was no such thing as a smart phone. A lot can change in 10 years.
And 10 years later we aren't anywhere close to 100% adoption on a device that costs a couple of hundred dollars and virtually everyone had a cell phone 10 years ago.

I don't disagree on ICE's decline but see it going away in the next 10 years highly unlikely.
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      08-09-2017, 02:23 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
Volvo is 100% owned by Geely Holdings (which owns many companies) and is 100% Chinese.

Please get your facts correct as you continually post erroneous information.
Dude.

From my previous post: "A holding company is far, far different from an actual corporation."

Please don't tell me you're one of those knee-jerk reactionaries. Figured there'd be a few of those across the pond, but still ... wow?

FYI: Geely's only owned Volvo Cars for seven years. And Volvo Cars' HQ is still in Gothenburg, Sweden. And Geely only owns Volvo Cars, not Volvo AB, which is Volvo's far more profitable truck division. Guess what else Volvo AB owns? Mack Trucks. Guess what else? Renault Trucks.

So do you really want to say that Mack Trucks, based in North Carolina (and formerly based in Brooklyn and Allentown, Pennsylvania), is now a Swedish company? (At least Volvo AB is a manufacturer, not a holding company!). And do you really want to say that Renault Trucks -- pretty much the only large truck manufacturer France has ever had that meant anything, though Citroen gave it a shot -- is now Swedish?

Riiiiight.
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      08-09-2017, 02:37 PM   #34
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Snicker. Anyone want to venture a guess about how many Chinese engineers work at Volvo?
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      08-09-2017, 02:58 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
You keep digging yourself deeper into a hole.
With all due respect, from an independent third party, he makes a lot of sense and you are making none. Zero. You cannot even grasp the argument you are having.
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      08-09-2017, 04:05 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
You keep digging yourself deeper into a hole.

My statement was about Volvo cars, many posts ago. Volvo cars is 100% owned by Geely, which is a Chinese company.

I'll explain what a holding company is, to save you having to look it up. A holding company is a "umbrella" which is created to house other autonomous business, but within the overall control of the holding company.

Volvo cars is based in Sweden as the Chinese know, the USP for Volvo cars is this "Swedishness". However, the purse strings are held in Hangzhou, Zhejiang, China.

If there is anything else you would like explaining, please ask.
I realize all of this. What you don't seem to realize is that purse strings extend far beyond national borders -- or a tree's canopy, as it were. Even in China. Volvo Cars isn't switching to electrified vehicles to primarily serve the Chinese market. It is doing it because it's a business decision based on -- wait for it! -- Scandinavian ideals and policy, some of which extend to mainland Europe. Does that policy extend to China? India? Japan? South America? (I could go on). No, because Volvo passenger cars do not sell well there -- and they don't even sell all that well in the U.S. It's a Eurocentric decision for a brand that really only has a viable foothold in Northern Europe.

China has little, if not nothing, to do with that business decision.

Study your macroeconomics and get back to me, please.
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      08-09-2017, 04:43 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lobb View Post
You keep digging yourself deeper into a hole.

My statement was about Volvo cars, many posts ago. Volvo cars is 100% owned by Geely, which is a Chinese company.

I'll explain what a holding company is, to save you having to look it up. A holding company is a "umbrella" which is created to house other autonomous business, but within the overall control of the holding company.

Volvo cars is based in Sweden as the Chinese know, the USP for Volvo cars is this "Swedishness". However, the purse strings are held in Hangzhou, Zhejiang, China.

If there is anything else you would like explaining, please ask.
Agree. Company I work for bought an English company, people there still think they work for an English company but obviously the U.S. company that owns them feels differently. I have also never been involved with a holding company that wasn't directly involved in all major decisions.

Volvo ownership is Chinese, profits end up in China, you can buy the Chinese built Volvo in the U.S., somehow this looks like a Chinese company to me. Since Geely purchased Volvo they have drastically increased Chinese production of Volvo's (I think from zero), many going to export and I don't believe this was decision made by the Swedish.
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      08-09-2017, 04:47 PM   #38
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Surprisingly, Volvo sold over 500k cars last year, and their number one market is, wait for it, China, with over 90k sales. I didn't expect that.
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      08-09-2017, 04:55 PM   #39
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Quote:
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Surprisingly, Volvo sold over 500k cars last year, and their number one market is, wait for it, China, with over 90k sales. I didn't expect that.
Well, I stand corrected on the China question. I still can't imagine its decision to go all-electrified is solely based on Chinese market dynamics, though. It makes very little sense, even for a car company as relatively small as Volvo.

I'm also not going to sit here and say that a holding company doesn't have anything to do with the decision-making at a portfolio corporation. But most holding companies do not manage their companies that way -- and they can't en masse for various reasons that range from antitrust law and macroeconomics to public relations and marketing. Part of why holding companies work on the macroeconomic level is because portfolios are typically diversified, and diversification typically means management occurs chiefly at the corporate level, not the ownership level.
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