[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ I hear ya, I actually think that the Turbo S is WAY overpriced with ADMs (and frankly, the GTS too, but that's just my opinion).

However, if you get a Turbo S with an M Engineering tune....holy crap that would be one blazingly fast car.

it would be stupid fast for sure ....

I did a 10k adm in May of 2022 --- Im good in the car and it provides me with quite a few smiles. Its a good street ripper so the person with the Turbo S who doesnt push the accelerator as hard is about as fast as my floored GTS

[TupperBMW]

My 992 Carrera S hit about 27-8 PSI boost at one point during a datalog.

Being that the S and GTS have pretty much the same engines, I'm willing to wager that my car was about the same speed as yours

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

My 992 Carrera S hit about 27-8 PSI boost at one point during a datalog.

Being that the S and GTS have pretty much the same engines, I'm willing to wager that my car was about the same speed as yours

yes with the tune its apples to apples for sure ... the gts is just there for a choice that some want (its not an affordable car but nor is a nicely apportioned 992S or 4S)... I would have no trouble/issue rocking a nice 2S here in Cali with exhaust and tune.

I have noticed that that the GTS Turbo suspension coupled with PDCC makes the car so taut yet enduring over bumps... I love Porsche engineering.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I have noticed that that the GTS Turbo suspension coupled with PDCC makes the car so taut yet enduring over bumps... I love Porsche engineering.

For sure. I miss my 911. As you know, I gave that up for my R8.

I still would rather have my R8 (easily) if I had to choose, but......if I could have owned both, that would have been perfect.

But to be honest, the M Engineering tune is when things went downhill for me and the Porsche. I'm not saying much over at Rennlist, but the "trans error" really annoyed me, and they never were able to get rid of it. I was much happier with the car when it was stock.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

For sure. I miss my 911. As you know, I gave that up for my R8.

I still would rather have my R8 (easily) if I had to choose, but......if I could have owned both, that would have been perfect.

But to be honest, the M Engineering tune is when things went downhill for me and the Porsche. I'm not saying much over at Rennlist, but the "trans error" really annoyed me, and they never were able to get rid of it. I was much happier with the car when it was stock.

oh shit--- Ive only had the best experience with Mitch and the boys there. The only error I got besides the expected CEL due to the low cell cats was the finicky valve sensor that the 992 has with my aftermarket exhaust. I would get this odd error that would not clear because the mechanics on the exhaust were ever so slightly off. The coded it out and Ive been gold since.

The best part of the tune, besides the power bump, is the valving code where it stays open even at low rpms- makes the car sound so much better vs having to load it up.

And yes Id rather have my R8 over the 992 but thats a mixed bag because Id rather have the 992 as a daily which makes the R8 only better if I have more than one car... the conundrum I personally see.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Vic55

i have had 5 of them... 2003, 2007 (the 3 and 7 were not S), 2011, 2014, and 2016.

I went with the GTS because I got an ADM of less than half what the market was asking at the time while Turbo S's (992) back in May were literally around 70-90k over msrp and I knew that market would die. And yes MMR that was once high 200's is now in the low 200s. My GTS buy was on a whim, got a call Monday and took it Wednesday.

I have had a 2018 GTS as well and always found that car to be meaningful 911 but with a very fair price point. Add in the stupidity of the Porsche market and it was an ez buy.

Obviously you know the Turbo S and non S are faster but thats a given. The M Engineering tune with data logging a custom file has made things more interesting as the GTS weighs less. Its probably a 129-130 trap car now and thats fine since I have a faster car than the Turbo S anyways. But sadly I still yearn for the Turbo S and I wont lie- Im pricing a few now including a nice vert...

https://www.porschelongbeach.com/inv...cd2a97ps263028

The car whisperer at his best. A 911 of any variant is a dream car for me but sadly can't fit in one. The BS ADM of last year squelched a deal for a buddy (5'10") on a Turbo S. He's back in the market now and still willing to hold out if need be vs the offers here in the Phoenix area. Good luck with the yearning for a Turbo S (vert looks like a winner) on a good deal. 👍

[TupperBMW]

I would never view a 911 as "dream car".

It's a fantastically engineered sports car, a blast to drive, but for me it isn't special or exclusive enough.

Hypercars aside, if I were to describe what a "dream car" would be for me, I'm thinking a V12 Ferrari (specifically one of the 812's) or an Aventador

Perhaps a McLaren 765 LT

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

I would never view a 911 as "dream car".

It's a fantastically engineered sports car, a blast to drive, but for me it isn't special or exclusive enough.

Hypercars aside, if I were to describe what a "dream car" would be for me, I'm thinking a V12 Ferrari (specifically one of the 812's) or an Aventador

Perhaps a McLaren 765 LT

I have to agree here... a dream car though is probably the one that is so revered it never gets ripped or driven or its always a burden to drive because one is so worried about it getting hit or scratched in a parking lot.

For me the daily dream or future acquisition I may say is the Turbo S or something that can be brutalized on a regular basis.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

For me the daily dream or future acquisition I may say is the Turbo S or something that can be brutalized on a regular basis.

I don't know, Vic, I might have to differ with you on this one.

I used to lust after the Turbo S, but it's lost its appeal to me lately. I guess I just don't find it exciting or all that special. I was particularly pissed off last year when I saw a 2022 992 Turbo S (black) listed nearby and the dealership told me over the phone that they wanted a $100k ADM. I nearly hung up on the bastard.

At $300k, there's just no way that's enough for me. I'm more and more about noise and character, and those huge turbos just don't really satisfy my loins.

I want smiles, and laughs, and want to feel something in my gut. And this horsepower race, especially now with these soulless electric motors, seems to be like a road to nowhere.

My R8 makes me smile more than my 911 ever did, and I imagine that a V12 Ferrari will do so even more. To hell with it if a Turbo S can beat it in a straight line

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

I don't know, Vic, I might have to differ with you on this one.

I used to lust after the Turbo S, but it's lost its appeal to me lately. I guess I just don't find it exciting or all that special. I was particularly pissed off last year when I saw a 2022 992 Turbo S (black) listed nearby and the dealership told me over the phone that they wanted a $100k ADM. I nearly hung up on the bastard.

At $300k, there's just no way that's enough for me. I'm more and more about noise and character, and those huge turbos just don't really satisfy my loins.

I want smiles, and laughs, and want to feel something in my gut. And this horsepower race, especially now with these soulless electric motors, seems to be like a road to nowhere.

My R8 makes me smile more than my 911 ever did, and I imagine that a V12 Ferrari will do so even more. To hell with it if a Turbo S can beat it in a straight line

I think you missed my small print ... daily driver dream (or something I can brutalize) and its not 300k anymore; thats why I passed before and Im on R8 number 4. I dont see the R8 as a daily ever but its the best 2nd car Ive probably owned. But I get bored of cars and need to move on so a P car could roll back; Id dump the GTS which Im good in right now. The factory is slow rolling them out so their ADM's are still reasonably high at the ask point. And I can easily build a nice exhaust for the Turbo S which currently sucks in oem format to your point.

I guess under your premise my dream car is the SF90 or an 812 SF. Dream as in one I can buy but Im still a bit prudent with my cash.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I think you missed my small print ... daily driver dream (or something I can brutalize) and its not 300k anymore; thats why I passed before and Im on R8 number 4. I dont see the R8 as a daily ever but its the best 2nd car Ive probably owned. But I get bored of cars and need to move on so a P car could roll back; Id dump the GTS which Im good in right now. The factory is slow rolling them out so their ADM's are still reasonably high at the ask point. And I can easily build a nice exhaust for the Turbo S which currently sucks in oem format to your point.

I guess under your premise my dream car is the SF90 or an 812 SF. Dream as in one I can buy but Im still a bit prudent with my cash.

^ Yeah, I guess I can see what you're saying. Your situation is different than mine. First of all, I can't go through cars like you have, plus I really have to have full sized rear seats for my daily. So Turbo S is out.

Now, I find your "dream" cars interesting. A mid-engine twin turbo V8 hybrid versus a brute front engine NA V12 with not an electric motor in sight. The SF90 would be rad, but the 812 to me would probably be the ultimate smile machine.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ Yeah, I guess I can see what you're saying. Your situation is different than mine. First of all, I can't go through cars like you have, plus I really have to have full sized rear seats for my daily. So Turbo S is out.

Now, I find your "dream" cars interesting. A mid-engine twin turbo V8 hybrid versus a brute front engine NA V12 with not an electric motor in sight. The SF90 would be rad, but the 812 to me would probably be the ultimate smile machine.

Two different ways to get to a point --- Ive had a v12 fezza already but know that the 812 is a level up. I borrowed an F12 for a month once, great car and made me feel like a King but the car did have grip issues at times from a dig and of course when the tires were cold. But then again no one gets a Ferrari for a dig although the SF90 is a crusher.

Ive never had a mac but the 765lt is just jaw dropping.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

I would never view a 911 as "dream car".

You may not but to each their own. The history started in the Park Like Vic thread in which I posted owning the driveway of the house I grew up in. The dream of a Porsche started in that house at 10 years old with the "affordable" 924, then switched to a 944, then a 928 (gotta love a V8) and ultimately a 911 as once out of college and making real $.

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

It's a fantastically engineered sports car, a blast to drive, but for me it isn't special or exclusive enough.

I do not need a car from an exclusivity standpoint. I have that in my horology collection second to bar none. I laugh when (in general sales people from my biz career) ask me about the watch I'm wearing as they can tell it's expensive but not a run of the mill Rolex, AP, VC, etc. Sure I have some more pedestrian watches $ wise equivalent to a 911 but for an important business meeting/negotiation I bring out the big guns.

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

Hypercars aside, if I were to describe what a "dream car" would be for me, I'm thinking a V12 Ferrari (specifically one of the 812's) or an Aventador

Perhaps a McLaren 765 LT

From that perspective a Lambo is a dream car as well. Just can't get myself to spend that $ on a lack of appreciating asset. There is a small part of me considering doing so though with the announcement of the last V12 NA Aventador. Could sell one of the big gun watches and use the cash on an Aventador if I lose my mind and shift an appreciating asset into depreciating. Sure picking up one of the last production Aventadors and never driving it may appreciate over the long haul but that defeats the purpose of owning the car.

[TupperBMW]

^ Whether a car depreciates has never been much of a consideration for me when I'm thinking about my special "second" car--my fun car. Really any car, frankly. I mean, I got lucky to have sold my 911 for $5k more than I bought it for after putting over 11k miles on it, but I also think that the last 2 years were a highly unusual time for the car market. So it was just a perk.

But as I've stated before, I think NA high displacement, higher revving engines just appeal to me above and beyond other attributes, and that especially has become more important to me in this era of soulless 1000 hp EV's doing 0-60 in 2.2 seconds.

That's just my own perspective. But hey, everybody has their own thing that they are looking for, and I fully can respect and appreciate that.

[Vic55]

LOL have you even driven a Plaid? Or are you one of those guys that has to defend your ICE machine(s) using the word soul which is so subjective ... Ill bet its the former because the car that traps 150 and is untouchable and the visceral results of speed give me pause as one who never said Id get an EV.

I have had over 50 cars in last the 15-20 years and all are of quality and performance for the most part. The Plaid is not for all but if you drive with spirit and understand chassis dynamics and steering along with inertia and balance, there can be something said about how the car just rips apart others in the real world.

Im not going to say its an only car but its easily a fun car for the price of admission. And Ill get another one but in a different color.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

^ Whether a car depreciates has never been much of a consideration for me when I'm thinking about my special "second" car—my fun car. Really any car, frankly. I mean, I got lucky to have sold my 911 for $5k more than I bought it for after putting over 11k miles on it, but I also think that the last 2 years were a highly unusual time for the car market. So it was just a perk.

Agreed as the last 2 years of the used car market made it easy to make $ on a sale regardless of the fact Porsche holds well from a depreciation standpoint.

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

But as I've stated before, I think NA high displacement, higher revving engines just appeal to me above and beyond other attributes, and that especially has become more important to me in this era of soulless 1000 hp EV's doing 0-60 in 2.2 seconds.

I'll never go EV (passsed on a Tesla S with Ludicrous which is now Plaid and even better). ICE all the way. 👍

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

That's just my own perspective. But hey, everybody has their own thing that they are looking for, and I fully can respect and appreciate that.

Totally agree as my wants/needs are likely drastically different than others. Love this forum as in general everyone respects that we all have an opinion (there have been a few red herrings but all now banned). Heck to the point I'm embraced with open arms even though I only have a M850i. Just try to pay it back in all the knowledge I get from the forum in anyway possible to do so.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Vic55

LOL have you even driven a Plaid? Or are you one of those guys that has to defend your ICE machine(s) using the word soul which is so subjective ... Ill bet its the former because the car that traps 150 and is untouchable and the visceral results of speed give me pause as one who never said Id get an EV.

I have had over 50 cars in last the 15-20 years and all are of quality and performance for the most part. The Plaid is not for all but if you drive with spirit and understand chassis dynamics and steering along with inertia and balance, there can be something said about how the car just rips apart others in the real world.

Im not going to say its an only car but its easily a fun car for the price of admission. And Ill get another one but in a different color.

Haven't driven a Plaid but rather only the predecessor aka Ludicrous Speed. You have many cars in the stable that are ICE so throwing in an EV is just icing on the cake. For me I'm a one car guy so I do enjoy the soul of ICE but to your point that is highly subjective depending on the goal of the purchase.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Haven't driven a Plaid but rather only the predecessor aka Ludicrous Speed. You have many cars in the stable that are ICE so throwing in an EV is just icing on the cake. For me I'm a one car guy so I do enjoy the soul of ICE but to your point that is highly subjective depending on the goal of the purchase.

I guess I needed to articulate better for others as you get it but trapping at 150 and doing a 60 to 130 in the 4's is mind blowing literally. Ones mind can not keep up with the movement at times. Its that much a g force pull. So yes no exhaust but the 22 speakers do just fine LOL.

Hey I get it, we all justify our buys in some way, shape, or form but no one can ever accuse me of being an EV hugger. No one.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

LOL have you even driven a Plaid? Or are you one of those guys that has to defend your ICE machine(s) using the word soul which is so subjective ... Ill bet its the former because the car that traps 150 and is untouchable and the visceral results of speed give me pause as one who never said Id get an EV.

I have had over 50 cars in last the 15-20 years and all are of quality and performance for the most part. The Plaid is not for all but if you drive with spirit and understand chassis dynamics and steering along with inertia and balance, there can be something said about how the car just rips apart others in the real world.

Im not going to say its an only car but its easily a fun car for the price of admission. And Ill get another one but in a different color.

No I haven't, but I have test driven a Taycan Turbo S, and I also did a launch control with it. The launch control was a blast, I laughed out loud.

But after that I got back into my 911 (which I owned at the time) and said "I'm so much more glad that I own this car"

I guess everybody sings their own tune. To me, speed is just not as important as other attributes. Not only that, but as I said before, with an era coming up of battery powered cars making over 1000 hp, I just don't see where we are going with all of this--that future certainly doesn't appeal to me.

I am all for an end to horsepower wars and a focus more on the experience of driving. And to me, taking away the sound and vibration of an engine is one of the biggest turn offs.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by Vic55

I guess I needed to articulate better for others as you get it but trapping at 150 and doing a 60 to 130 in the 4's is mind blowing literally. Ones mind can not keep up with the movement at times. Its that much a g force pull. So yes no exhaust but the 22 speakers do just fine LOL.

Hey I get it, we all justify our buys in some way, shape, or form but no one can ever accuse me of being an EV hugger. No one.

I'm definitely not accusing you of being an EV hugger. But I do think that speed matters more to you, and that's totally cool.

I want a car to be fast, don't get me wrong, but I guess I just value other attributes a lot more. It's like a fine wine: a blend of ingredients, flavors, smells makes for a better experience.

For example, with the Plaid I can't stand how it looks. It doesn't look special. I already am turned off about that. The lack of sound--already discussed--a HUGE problem for me. I've heard that the OEM brakes aren't up to the task, that's another problem. Also, I always prefer convertibles because I like the wind and I like to hear my engine exhaust. So I don't see the Plaid being the weekend fun car for me, that's all.

[TupperBMW]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

I'll never go EV (passsed on a Tesla S with Ludicrous which is now Plaid and even better). ICE all the way. ��

^ I'll tell you where I stand, I basically agree with this, but since Governments are forcing this one us, I will go EV eventually. However, it will be for simple transportation from A to B. First for my wife, then eventually for me.

I could be wrong, but I just don't see myself getting one for a weekend fun car. But you never know. If the big boy carmakers can actually make a really cool sports car that is all electric, I'm willing to give it a try.

But NO SOUND? (authentic sound, not fake sound, FYI)

NO

SOUND?

Really? I mean........sigh...........it is that important to me, so I just don't know how I'll get into it

[Gizmo 335i]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

The car whisperer at his best. A 911 of any variant is a dream car for me but sadly can't fit in one. The BS ADM of last year squelched a deal for a buddy (5'10") on a Turbo S. He's back in the market now and still willing to hold out if need be vs the offers here in the Phoenix area. Good luck with the yearning for a Turbo S (vert looks like a winner) on a good deal. 👍

A brand new 911 of any variant is out of my range but man...the 992 is just pure sex!