[Beemer5to3]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

First thing I did was turn off Logic 7 on the wife's X5. That said my only disappointment with the B&W is the fact you can't negate its DSP at all. Gut feeling said "studio" would be the most accurate to a true stereo source but ultimately I landed elsewhere as both stereo sources and my 5.1 sources plus EQ and trim all work best on "concert".

Yeah having used the B&W coding in my car to see what it's like, Studio seems to be the mode that doesn't appear to have any DSP interference, but I still think it does. I didn't think it improved the HK at all, so just reverted to setting the EQ myself.

[M8Bimmer]

What these cars need is a good room correction software. Mated to the stock system it could measure the interior and make the proper corrections.
They create filters and EQ adjusts based on the measurement of the microphone you use while setting it up. It would also do time alignment on the drivers as well. They re well worth the effort on any system imo. Really high end car audio should offer this.
No good home system is really complete without it. These software's can do things the human ear never could. It creates a custom program to correct all the imperfections it see's in the setup scans.
Anyway a dream I know. But someday somebody will offer it and it will change it all. It can help any level of system to sound much better.
Anybody here use it at home? I do.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Hard to say as there is more to it than just the speakers and the B&W ones are sourced from their 800 series which are phenomenal in themselves. That said I'd expect a significant improvement as the friend that turned me on to Bavsound redid his HK in the 2017 650i he has and it sounds great. One caveat is he also did the Bavsound amp as well which doesn't apply to the 8-series (or any other iDrive 7 based car).

He was arguing I should just go with HK and do the Bavsound upgrade. However, after demoing the B&W I scratched that idea completely. 🤣

Why doesn't the amp apply? I'd totally go B&W if I could, but BMW has decided its not an option for me. So HK and maybe an aftermarket upgrade is the best I can do. I know Bav says you don't really need to use their amp anyway as just the speakers should be enough.

[JDS]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

Yeah having used the B&W coding in my car to see what it's like, Studio seems to be the mode that doesn't appear to have any DSP interference, but I still think it does. I didn't think it improved the HK at all, so just reverted to setting the EQ myself.

Any chance you could post a picture of your settings? Would appreciate it.

James.

[Beemer5to3]

Originally Posted by JDS

Any chance you could post a picture of your settings? Would appreciate it.

James.

Of course mate - currently in Mexico on holiday, but I'll be back on Monday so will do it for you then

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

I'd expect any good aftermarket upgrade to be ahead of factory fit all day long, even at B&W level. The stuff I used to fit when I was younger, you could get a really good quality install for around £2/2.5k, which is give or take half the price of B&W and when setup correctly was absolutely first class. You're never going to get first rate audio in a car anyway, as the acoustics are not conducive to a good audio experience. Actually half the battle in getting any system to sound good in a car is sound deadening - I used to put it anywhere it would go in installs, and used to make the world of difference. Another issue is where the subwoofers sit in any factory fit BMW - under the seats is not ideal at all. I heard the HK in the new i4 last week and it sounds miles better than it's non EV equivalents as the Sub sits in the boot in an enclosure.

Agreed as to your point one never will achieve true audiophile quality in a car due to it's acoustics. In fact said acoustics is why I'm going to go up to my dealer this week and play around with a HK in a coupe to see what settings I can make to improve the defaults. It is useless to share the HK settings for my wife's X5 as the cabin acoustics are completely different.

Also agree on the good old days in which an Alpine head unit tied to a Rockford Fosgate amp/speaker setup would blow away even the best factory audio no questions asked. Now a days though with the advent of "infotainment" systems one now is more limited to something that plugs-n-plays with the core system. In fact that is why Bavsound has created their market for BMW and Mini.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

What these cars need is a good room correction software. Mated to the stock system it could measure the interior and make the proper corrections.
They create filters and EQ adjusts based on the measurement of the microphone you use while setting it up. It would also do time alignment on the drivers as well. They re well worth the effort on any system imo. Really high end car audio should offer this.
No good home system is really complete without it. These software's can do things the human ear never could. It creates a custom program to correct all the imperfections it see's in the setup scans.
Anyway a dream I know. But someday somebody will offer it and it will change it all. It can help any level of system to sound much better.
Anybody here use it at home? I do.

Agreed and one would think a nice placement as simple as leveraging the one used for the car's Bluetooth mic could be leveraged. I run both Audyssey and Dirac in my home audio for 2 doctors opinions but they are more about 7.1, etc. speaker calibration for home movies. When I play 2-channel or 5.1 channel (DVD-Audio and SACD) audio I defeat the DSP all together on my pre-pro.

[germanroots]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Also agree on the good old days in which an Alpine head unit tied to a Rockford Fosgate amp/speaker setup would blow away even the best factory audio no questions asked.

Ha! So true...but I don't miss the days of carrying around my detachable face, or worse the pull-out unit that I never felt comfortable leaving in my high school locker.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by snareman

Why doesn't the amp apply? I'd totally go B&W if I could, but BMW has decided its not an option for me. So HK and maybe an aftermarket upgrade is the best I can do. I know Bav says you don't really need to use their amp anyway as just the speakers should be enough.

The amp doesn't apply as BMW switched to an OABR interface for iDrive 7 (think of it as how the cars internal network communicates) vs MOST used in iDrive 6 and earlier. The Bavsound amp and others I've seen on the market are all designed for the MOST interface. Eventually someone (my bet on Bavsound) will create an OABR compatible amp that will work for iDrive 7.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by germanroots

Ha! So true...but I don't miss the days of carrying around my detachable face, or worse the pull-out unit that I never felt comfortable leaving in my high school locker.

Now that brought some flashbacks! 🤣

[M8Bimmer]

aahhh the old Alpine days. So MANY fond memories of all my car stereo systems. Pioneer too. Phoenix Gold amps. Even a Sony here or there. JVC in my buddies van. We were rockin man! Had to impress the chicks of course. The bigger the stereo the bigger the lever....so we thought....lol
Campfire parties that killed your battery after hours of tunes blasting.
Faceplates and detachable units...yup. EQ's as well. Tweeters on the dash and subs in the hatchback. (Datsun 260Z). 6 pack CD changer behind the seat with loaded CD 6 packs handy.
Still rocking after market stuff in my F350. Big system in there.

[M8Bimmer]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Agreed as to your point one never will achieve true audiophile quality in a car due to it's acoustics. In fact said acoustics is why I'm going to go up to my dealer this week and play around with a HK in a coupe to see what settings I can make to improve the defaults. It is useless to share the HK settings for my wife's X5 as the cabin acoustics are completely different.

Also agree on the good old days in which an Alpine head unit tied to a Rockford Fosgate amp/speaker setup would blow away even the best factory audio no questions asked. Now a days though with the advent of "infotainment" systems one now is more limited to something that plugs-n-plays with the core system. In fact that is why Bavsound has created their market for BMW and Mini.

Ya never gonna equal high end home audio.
Maybe somebody already offer room correction in a car. Imo it would be a game changer in car sound. It does at home. If you've got a high end home system and want it better. Add a room correction setup. Much better after that.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

Ya never gonna equal high end home audio.
Maybe somebody already offer room correction in a car. Imo it would be a game changer in car sound. It does at home. If you've got a high end home system and want it better. Add a room correction setup. Much better after that.

Most modern receivers or pre-processors (if running separate amps) all come with at least some variant of Audyssey. To your point it makes a huge difference.

[BMWGUYinCO]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

aahhh the old Alpine days. So MANY fond memories of all my car stereo systems. Pioneer too. Phoenix Gold amps. Even a Sony here or there. JVC in my buddies van. We were rockin man! Had to impress the chicks of course. The bigger the stereo the bigger the lever....so we thought....lol
Campfire parties that killed your battery after hours of tunes blasting.
Faceplates and detachable units...yup. EQ's as well. Tweeters on the dash and subs in the hatchback. (Datsun 260Z). 6 pack CD changer behind the seat with loaded CD 6 packs handy.
Still rocking after market stuff in my F350. Big system in there.

Oh man, I remember putting in an Alpine system (tape) in my old Camero - matching it with an Alpine amp and Boston Acoustics speakers....man that system rocked hard.

[Beemer5to3]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Agreed as to your point one never will achieve true audiophile quality in a car due to it's acoustics. In fact said acoustics is why I'm going to go up to my dealer this week and play around with a HK in a coupe to see what settings I can make to improve the defaults. It is useless to share the HK settings for my wife's X5 as the cabin acoustics are completely different.

Also agree on the good old days in which an Alpine head unit tied to a Rockford Fosgate amp/speaker setup would blow away even the best factory audio no questions asked. Now a days though with the advent of "infotainment" systems one now is more limited to something that plugs-n-plays with the core system. In fact that is why Bavsound has created their market for BMW and Mini.

Yeah plus I think you said your X5 was a 17 model? Meaning it'll actually have a better system too - they were 600W amps fitted to those before BMW downgraded them to 464W. I distinctly remember my friends F30 HK sounding much better than my G20's :

What sort of music are you into? I can share my settings with you once I'm back in the UK - everyone's ears are different of course, but I'm very happy with my setup based on my quite eclectic music taste! But I'm mostly playing rock / heavy rock / vocal trance - all I tend to do for the latter is pull the bass back slightly as trance is very bass heavy.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

Yeah plus I think you said your X5 was a 17 model? Meaning it'll actually have a better system too - they were 600W amps fitted to those before BMW downgraded them to 464W. I distinctly remember my friends F30 HK sounding much better than my G20's :

What sort of music are you into? I can share my settings with you once I'm back in the UK - everyone's ears are different of course, but I'm very happy with my setup based on my quite eclectic music taste! But I'm mostly playing rock / heavy rock / vocal trance - all I tend to do for the latter is pull the bass back slightly as trance is very bass heavy.

Thanks for the reminder as my wife's 2017 X5 does have the 600W amp. At the time all I could do was test the base system vs HK as no dealer had a B&O equiped on their lots. The HK was the easy winner and at $900 a bargain. Even if I could have tested a B&O at $4K (if memory serves) I still would have passed as it's her DD vs mine.

Music genre wise I listen to the gamut but I too lean towards rock/hard rock as that was my calling when playing in bands although did a stint in a jazz/fusion band as well. I grew up playing piano, then sax and finally guitar. The sax paid off as when the band did Pink Floyd covers I handled that while the other guitarist handled all of the guitar parts.

When I make it to the dealer this week (likely Saturday) my thumb drive will have the same sources I use for testing out potentially new home audio gear. This includes Steely Dan "Aja", Frankie Goes To Hollywood "Welcome to the Pleasure Dome", Fleetwood Mac "Rumors", Van Halen (self titled) and Accept "Balls to the Walls". All high resolution FLAC from Japan sourced SACD releases. Irony being is the title track for the Accept album is how I dial in the bass of any system. I've made it glorious on the B&W. 👍

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Thanks for the reminder as my wife's 2017 X5 does have the 600W amp. At the time all I could do was test the base system vs HK as no dealer had a B&O equiped on their lots. The HK was the easy winner and at $900 a bargain. Even if I could have tested a B&O at $4K (if memory serves) I still would have passed as it's her DD vs mine.

Music genre wise I listen to the gamut but I too lean towards rock/hard rock as that was my calling when playing in bands although did a stint in a jazz/fusion band as well. I grew up playing piano, then sax and finally guitar. The sax paid off as when the band did Pink Floyd covers I handled that while the other guitarist handled all of the guitar parts.

When I make it to the dealer this week (likely Saturday) my thumb drive will have the same sources I use for testing out potentially new home audio gear. This includes Steely Dan "Aja", Frankie Goes To Hollywood "Welcome to the Pleasure Dome", Fleetwood Mac "Rumors", Van Halen (self titled) and Accept "Balls to the Walls". All high resolution FLAC from Japan sourced SACD releases. Irony being is the title track for the Accept album is how I dial in the bass of any system. I've made it glorious on the B&W. 👍

I would greatly appreciate an image of your settings for the B&W, you have great taste in music.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Tenac

I would greatly appreciate an image of your settings for the B&W, you have great taste in music.

Always happy to pay back the forum in anyway possible given that I've learned so much from what everyone else has shared. Case-in-point my 2020 M850i is the first lease foray and all the lessons learned including MSDs made it a no brainer decision.

Keep in mind beyond the EQ and trim settings they are not for the faint of heart as even once dialed in to similar (I need to post the actual EQ settings vs a picture) and trim the key as with every audio system you have to "open it up" like a cabernet to let it breathe properly.

In this case without the B&W at at least 40 to 50 percent one will never experience the absolutely glorious tight bass (it's not a LFE "thump") capable of the system. In other words you can not only hear it but also feel it as it's not just the subs under the seat but also the midrange drivers in the doors and center console that produce the entire low/mid range sound landscape. Flip side is with the wife in the car I can barely hit 20% even with music she enjoys so it's a sub optimal experience. 🤣

[Beemer5to3]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Thanks for the reminder as my wife's 2017 X5 does have the 600W amp. At the time all I could do was test the base system vs HK as no dealer had a B&O equiped on their lots. The HK was the easy winner and at $900 a bargain. Even if I could have tested a B&O at $4K (if memory serves) I still would have passed as it's her DD vs mine.

Music genre wise I listen to the gamut but I too lean towards rock/hard rock as that was my calling when playing in bands although did a stint in a jazz/fusion band as well. I grew up playing piano, then sax and finally guitar. The sax paid off as when the band did Pink Floyd covers I handled that while the other guitarist handled all of the guitar parts.

When I make it to the dealer this week (likely Saturday) my thumb drive will have the same sources I use for testing out potentially new home audio gear. This includes Steely Dan "Aja", Frankie Goes To Hollywood "Welcome to the Pleasure Dome", Fleetwood Mac "Rumors", Van Halen (self titled) and Accept "Balls to the Walls". All high resolution FLAC from Japan sourced SACD releases. Irony being is the title track for the Accept album is how I dial in the bass of any system. I've made it glorious on the B&W. 👍

The base vs. HK is night and day! I'm in the UK (well not currently as I'm sunning myself in Mexico!), and our base system is just 6 speakers, whereas the base in the US and some other markets is the 205W BMW loudspeaker professional / HiFi as it's commonly known.

Some cracking choices of song / band right there! If you like your FM, then Gypsy is a great song to use, also Stop Draggin' My Heart around is a great EQ setup test track.

[bloozemanAZ]

I should have added that obviously sources vary, e.g., SirusXM vs Amazon Music HD/UltraHD via Android Auto vs FLAC on my SSD in the console. Plus some albums are just poorly mixed vs others.

That said depending on the source I will tweak the bass trim (never need to touch treble) accordingly. I had been listening to Ozzy's Boneyard on the last drive so the bass trim in the pictures is set higher than what it would be for the FLAC on my SSD.

I wish I could do memory buttons to control but at least have one set that takes me straight to the sound settings and since I only tweak the bass trim it lands on it so pretty easy to adjust even while driving. Also, if the wife is going to be in the car for a road trip vs just a drive to the restaurant I will flip the sound profile to "studio" as it performs better at low volumes vs "concert" at 40% plus.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Beemer5to3

The base vs. HK is night and day! I'm in the UK (well not currently as I'm sunning myself in Mexico!), and our base system is just 6 speakers, whereas the base in the US and some other markets is the 205W BMW loudspeaker professional / HiFi as it's commonly known.

Some cracking choices of song / band right there! If you like your FM, then Gypsy is a great song to use, also Stop Draggin' My Heart around is a great EQ setup test track.

Wow the base for 8-series in NA is HK with a 16 speaker setup and the 464W amp. B&W is also 16 speakers but a 1400W amp and different crossovers given the B&W is based on their 800 series (I've owned 803d in my home audio) which is a world of difference vs HK.

"Stop dragging my heart around" is an all time favorite and RIP to Tom. Living here in Phoenix where Stevie is still based out of and musical connections from my past life I've been fortunate enough to see her and Tom play it live on several occasions. Pure magic!

[ikonn]

While I patiently wait to see the reco from Bloozeman (thank u brother) for the HK in a G15 coupe…I tried playing with the settings today. With Logic 7 off (because, really, it does not sound good), even if I pump up the master bass AND raise the 100 and 200 Hz levels, I cannot feel (hear) any real low frequency bass. It’s like there is no or little sub content. The overall sound is not bad but I don’t feel a thing.

Is this normal? Could it be related this service bulletin SIB 65 01 21?

I wish there was a separate sub woofer control or some way to see if my sub woofers are actually working.