[yugrac]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

I’m beginning to think the quality of the HK speakers may be fine, but that the AMP and DSP might be the weak links…thoughts?

This is an accurate statement IMHO. This is exactly why I suggested the 2 stage approach a few posts back. The HK subs and amp are weak links. And a proper DSP tune is critical. The DSP tune needs to be done by a qualified individual, using an appropriate tuning software, with mics and laser speaker distances, etc. That's what I had done in my M850 and the difference between the original stock HK and the hybrid HK/Audio-tec Fischer is night and day. I would find it hard to believe anyone would not be satisfied with the results.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

I'm not really keeping up to much with the info on all this but doesn't that BAV sound amp integrate into the HK system. I'd bet that would be a good first try.
Has anyone tried that yet?

I think a few people have tried it. It's the simplest solution for sure. But it won't get you to B&W quality or beyond, so I think everyone's question is whether it's worth $1600 + install (including subs) if you're ultimately dissatisfied with the result.

For me, I have the added complexity of a vert which I drive 90% of the time with the top down. I spent a shit-ton of money tearing out and replacing the Bose system in my last 911 Cab, and it was essentially a waste of money other than the 10% of the time I drove it top up. My local guys, who won't let me waste my money, are dubious that spending even on a Bav upgrade will be worthwhile for me.

[Tenac]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I think a few people have tried it. It's the simplest solution for sure. But it won't get you to B&W quality or beyond, so I think everyone's question is whether it's worth $1600 + install (including subs) if you're ultimately dissatisfied with the result.

For me, I have the added complexity of a vert which I drive 90% of the time with the top down. I spent a shit-ton of money tearing out and replacing the Bose system in my last 911 Cab, and it was essentially a waste of money other than the 10% of the time I drove it top up. My local guys, who I love and won't let me waste my money, are dubious that spending even on a Bav upgrade will be worthwhile for me.

For me that is one of the best things with B&W is the quality with top down. Clear and I don't even really need to turn it up much more than with top up.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

I'm not really keeping up to much with the info on all this but doesn't that BAV sound amp integrate into the HK system. I'd bet that would be a good first try.
Has anyone tried that yet?

No. You can get the bavsound amp if you have the base HiFi system, but the bav amp can't integrate with the HK.

[M8Bimmer]

Originally Posted by snareman

No. You can get the bavsound amp if you have the base HiFi system, but the bav amp can't integrate with the HK.

Oh that makes it a bit less upgradable then. Looks like the upgrade cost is a bit much $'s to do anything simple with the HK system. How many channel on these amp in our car anyway? Does the HK system have the same amount of speakers? Are they in the same places as well?

[yugrac]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

Oh that makes it a bit less upgradable then. Looks like the upgrade cost is a bit much $'s to do anything simple with the HK system. How many channel on these amp in our car anyway? Does the HK system have the same amount of speakers? Are they in the same places as well?

Harman Kardon surround sound system (S688A) in the 8's is a 11 channel amp, coupe/GC.
Vert only uses 9 of those channels, but it's the same amp.
Speaker counts and location are the same for all model 8's, be it HK or B&W.
Vert obviously has no back deck speakers, thus the 2 fewer channels.

[Ghostrider641]

Originally Posted by snareman

No. You can get the bavsound amp if you have the base HiFi system, but the bav amp can't integrate with the HK.

Is there one that would work?

[Ghostrider641]

Originally Posted by hinckley

I think a few people have tried it. It's the simplest solution for sure. But it won't get you to B&W quality or beyond, so I think everyone's question is whether it's worth $1600 + install (including subs) if you're ultimately dissatisfied with the result.

For me, I have the added complexity of a vert which I drive 90% of the time with the top down. I spent a shit-ton of money tearing out and replacing the Bose system in my last 911 Cab, and it was essentially a waste of money other than the 10% of the time I drove it top up. My local guys, who won't let me waste my money, are dubious that spending even on a Bav upgrade will be worthwhile for me.

Did they have any suggestions? I’m not a vert guy, bald and sun don’t work lol

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by snareman

No. You can get the bavsound amp if you have the base HiFi system, but the bav amp can't integrate with the HK.

Technically the Bavsound amp supports HK. However, only any iDrive system built on MOST fiber optic system used in iD6 and the predecessors. With iD7 BMW leverages an OABR fiber optic network and for whatever reason Bavsound has not released a new version to be compatible the new interface.

So just like my buddy whom did the full Bavsound upgrade on his 650 that had HK I could do the same on my wife's 2017 X5 with HK.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

Is there one that would work?

Audio-tec Fischer's MATCH amp/DSP with the OABR interface harness is compatible.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Gents (you know who you are), I love your contributions to this forum, but could we not go down an audiophile rabbit hole yet again? Some of us are really interested in a real-world audio upgrade and no matter how often we try, these threads end up being hijacked. Maybe some of you guys could go offline; you know, get a room or something.

Thank you.

Touché and called it out early in yesterday's discourse we were breaking the rules set for the by the OP on the thread. Apologies!

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

I’m beginning to think the quality of the HK speakers may be fine, but that the AMP and DSP might be the weak links…thoughts?

They are but the Bavsound speakers are more efficient (equals more sound per watt). They claim better driver materials than HK but that is hard to prove beyond marketing material.

That said in my wife's X5 with HK the speakers more than get the job done. I have also defeated the DSP completely (unchecked Logic 7 or whatever they call it) and with my SSD as a source on road trips in it to Mexico (we dropped SiriusXM as the wife never used it) the system definitely gets the job done to my satisfaction.

One difference though being her HK came with a 600W amp. Outside of cost saving measures I'm not sure why BMW/HK de tched to the current gen 464W amp. Could be as to claykin's point in yesterday's discourse it is a class D vs AB amp. That will make it run cooler than the AB so less potential heat issues but with 464W there is definitely a loss in headroom.

[yugrac]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

Is there one that would work?

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

Did they have any suggestions? I’m not a vert guy, bald and sun don’t work lol

Lots of interesting info in this thread......

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1879008

I have the Audio-tec Fischer Match Up 10 DSP installed in my 2022 M850 and I am thrilled with it. Steep learning curve if you're going to install it yourself.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

One difference though being her HK came with a 600W amp. Outside of cost saving measures I'm not sure why BMW/HK de tched to the current gen 464W amp. Could be as to claykin's point in yesterday's discourse it is a class D vs AB amp. That will make it run cooler than the AB so less potential heat issues but with 464W there is definitely a loss in headroom.

To be clear, I have no idea what, if any, changes were made to the RAM or Booster modules when they supposedly went from 600W to 464W for HK. I made an assumption mentioning that maybe Samsung moved to class D. I made this assumption because in some of the car model spec sheets they use the word "digital" when they refer to the amplifier. It could also be that they decided to follow more modern power rating standards, instead of older standards that allowed "peak power" or power ratings at higher distortion levels, or measurements at voltages other than 14.4V or 12V, etc.... Power ratings can be a messy business.

That said, my G30 supposedly has a 600W amplifier. However, I've heard other BMW HK systems with the supposed 464W amplifier and did not notice that amplifier running out of headroom at higher volume. So, it's anyone's guess.

Could also be they downgraded the advertised spec to leave more room to upsell B&W. Who knows, maybe they made a commitment to Sound United on the B&W sell thru and they weren't meeting those goals so BMW marketing came up with downrating the amp... All a guess on my part.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by yugrac

Lots of interesting info in this thread......

https://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1879008

A bit of misinformation in that thread but will leave it at that.

Originally Posted by yugrac

I have the Audio-tec Fischer Match Up 10 DSP installed in my 2022 M850 and I am thrilled with it. Steep learning curve if you're going to install it yourself.

Assuming you also purchased the MATCH PP-BMW 1.9RAM-HK harness which is OABR based and hence plug and play with the OABR iD7 fabric. r33_RGSport has already called out their documentation is "light" and not an easy straight forward install from a guy whom does mods for a living.

Either way the 10DSP with the harness is the only solution I know of today that can work with an iD7 HK system. Glad to hear you are happy with the results. 👍

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by claykin

To be clear, I have no idea what, if any, changes were made to the RAM or Booster modules when they supposedly went from 600W to 464W for HK. I made an assumption mentioning that maybe Samsung moved to class D. Could also be that they decided to follow more modern power rating standards, instead of older standards that allowed "peak power" or power ratings at higher distortion levels, or measurements at voltages other than 14.4V or 12V, etc.... Power ratings can be a messy business.

Interestingly the MATCH amp/DSP upgrade for an iD7 based HK is technically a D class amp.

Originally Posted by claykin

That said, my G30 supposedly has a 600W amplifier. However, I've heard other BMW HK systems with the supposed 464W amplifier and did not notice that amplifier running out of headroom at higher volume. So, it's anyone's guess.

Headroom equals the old saying that everyone's mileage may vary. In my world I push any audio system to the limit and at least with the wife's X5 HK system with the 600W amp have yet to be disappointed after negating the Logic 7 DSP mode.

Originally Posted by claykin

Could also be they downgraded the advertised spec to leave more room to upsell B&W. Who knows, maybe they made a commitment to Sound United on the B&W sell thru and they weren't meeting those goals so BMW marketing came up with downrating the amp... All a guess on my part.

Anything is possible along with the ulterior motive of cost savings.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by Ghostrider641

Did they have any suggestions? I’m not a vert guy, bald and sun don’t work lol

For a vert, no. They really believe that significant audio quality cannot be achieved in an open environment (even standing still without road, tire and traffic noise). I didn't bother talking to them about what they'd recommend if I have a coupe or GC.

[yugrac]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

A bit of misinformation in that thread but will leave it at that.



Assuming you also purchased the MATCH PP-BMW 1.9RAM-HK harness which is OABR based and hence plug and play with the OABR iD7 fabric. r33_RGSport has already called out their documentation is "light" and not an easy straight forward install from a guy whom does mods for a living.

Either way the 10DSP with the harness is the only solution I know of today that can work with an iD7 HK system. Glad to hear you are happy with the results. ��

The installation was done by a serious professional installer. He used the Match Up 10DSP, the 1.9RAM-HK, and the Match MEC Analog In card, with the 2 Match under seat 2 ohm subs and various other bits and pieces.

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...fiers/up-10dsp

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...-bmw-1-9ram-hk

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m.../mec-analog-in

https://www.audiotec-fischer.de/en/m...ers/up-w8bmw-s

I don't know if he used Audio Fischer's DSP tuning software or something else, but the DSP tune itself was a major step in the installation process. It's critical. IMO, this is a job for a professional installer, unless someone in deep in the weeds on these technologies. Anyway, I'm very happy with it.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by hinckley

For a vert, no. They really believe that significant audio quality cannot be achieved in an open environment (even standing still without road, tire and traffic noise). I didn't bother talking to them about what they'd recommend if I have a coupe or GC.

I can understand that position from a pure audio purist's perspective. To calibrate the sound of an environment you are dealing with areas it bounces off of as well those that absorb it. With the top down on a convertible it's the equivalent of an open ampitheater and that takes some serious equipment all forward facing from the front to "fill" the space.

[M8Bimmer]

I see they suggest that sub woofer driver needs a 3 cubic foot enclosure. I'd really like to know what the actual cavity like under the 8 series seats. I figure it's the same cavity on 8 models.
Plus why do these speaker makes not show the back of the drivers? I want to see the back part on any speaker.

[Vic55]

Ok here we go ... Im horrible at audio delving (like what is probably going on here) as all I do is connect my phone and adjust the settings. I have a good system in the M8 and actually the M3 too but the coupe Im looking at does not have BW.

Since Im not an audiophile and I dont like to read the last three pages, can one of you SME's tell me that the base set up is not too bad? I think my G80 is base in nature as there is no upgrade option.

[Beemer5to3]

For anyone considering upgrading, it's worth taking a good amount of time to setup the HK properly with the equaliser - and turning off the stupid Logic7 function. While it's no means perfect, it makes a huge difference and to my now sounds pretty decent. Happy to share my settings (clearly it will make a difference if you have a very different music taste!).

Strangely, I was considering putting my G15 in p/x for a GC, and the one I was looking at had the B&W. I spent a good 40 mins playing around with it, and it's nowhere near worth the £/$3k that BMW are charging for it - in the UK you have to specify the Tech Plus Pack, which is £6k, albeit with some other good options in there. Unless you're particularly bothered by the aesthetics of the B&W - and granted it looks bloody good in the cabin, you could spend half of what it costs on a good aftermarket upgrade, and it will blow the B&W system out of the water.

All very subjective of course, but spent a good few years in the world of car audio when I was younger so I'd like to think I can give a worthwhile opinion.