[bloozemanAZ]

I met up with my old EMC sales account exec for Motorola/MSI Friday night along with the wife and his wife for dinner. They were in town escaping the Chicagoland weather so he pinged me for the meet up.

He leased an i5 M60 over a Tesla S due to many reasons including the more luxurious cabin. It's his first BMW so we of course talked shop while the ladies talked retail shopping therapy. 😜 I hooked him up with Bimmerpost so he could educate himself on the i5.

What was interesting is he stated an EV is a challenge in cold weather. I assumed as much but he explained over 2 weeks of sub zero temperatures in Chicago it was was 5x charge time vs normal. We discussed that I would expect that knowing the engineering behind lithium-ion, etc. batteries given my history with that in the cellphone world.

However, what was surprising is he stated that he couldn't trust the car. I of course asked "why?". He stated his normal range is about 250 miles on a full charge. But during the sub zero temperatures all bets were off. An example was on a full charge and driving a 30 mile round trip for an errand he was down to 50% battery level.

I laughed and said smiles to the gallon. There are definitely challenges in the cold weather with the 8-series, e.g., a proper set of tires but range isn't one of them. 👍

[xmanpro]

Yeah I totally get this. In my mind EVs are supposed to be a second or third car, not a primary or daily drive. Short bursts of performance in optimal weather and I have to say EVs are where it’s at but don’t be tryna go road trips or any of that other stuff we expect with a 100+ year mature infrastructure we have with ICE.

EVs will get there one day, not today.

But man that new Taycan -
Yo take my money I got an extra garage space.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by xmanpro

Yeah I totally get this. In my mind EVs are supposed to be a second or third car, not a primary or daily drive. Short bursts of performance in optimal weather and I have to say EVs are where it’s at but don’t be tryna go road trips or any of that other stuff we expect with a 100+ year mature infrastructure we have with ICE.

Agreed as my boss has a Model 3 for his daily commute and primarily bought before the AZ DMV environmental plate was capped on them. Gets him in the carpool lane while he's solo. 👍

Originally Posted by xmanpro

EVs will get there one day, not today.

Eventually they will but for now I'm an ICE hugger as a one vehicle owner (not including the wife's LCI 40i for her).

Originally Posted by xmanpro

But man that new Taycan -
Yo take my money I got an extra garage space.

As posted prior our CEO Pam has a Taycan Turbo S and being known as the "car guy" at the ELT she asked me to take it for a drive with her in the passenger seat. Glorious to say the least. Just had to explain to her she needed to get the car entirely PPF'd (it's a light grey matte/frozen paint job) and hooked her up with my detailer.

Also, as posted given all the EVs on campus (not including all the executives) we installed a bank of 10 chargers in the exec garage and 20 in the non-exec garage. My boss laughed when I asked about the details (only because they were shutting down all the power for the install) as he knows I'm ICE all the way. Him: "are you going to buy an EV now that we have chargers?". Me: "not until I'm cold dead and buried". Hence, the LOL moment.

[speed racer]

Thanks for reconfirming my ICE decision. Being in the Chicago area, cold weather range impact was a major consideration in not heading the route of a Taycan or E-Tron GT. Seeing the public charging issues in the January sub zero cold spell and now hearing about the potential for a 75% loss of range validates my choice. I run separate winter wheels/tires on the M850 during the cold weather months without issue. My wife's Q7 is the vehicle of choice during any significant snow accumulation.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by speed racer

Thanks for reconfirming my ICE decision. Being in the Chicago area, cold weather range impact was a major consideration in not heading the route of a Taycan or E-Tron GT. Seeing the public charging issues in the January sub zero cold spell and now hearing about the potential for a 75% loss of range validates my choice. I run separate winter wheels/tires on the M850 during the cold weather months without issue. My wife's Q7 is the vehicle of choice during any significant snow accumulation.

Dave (EMC exec) mentioned the long lines at the public charging stations during the cold snap. Was taking 3+ hours to charge so people were stacked up waiting just like the Costco gas line outside of it but that said it doesn't take more than 5 minutes to fill up an ICE car. 👍

[r33_RGSport]

I think High Powered PHEV makes more sense, like the XM and upcoming G90 M5.
You can drive about 30 miles up to 90mph at full electric without the range anxiety or the need to charge if you are going beyond that 30 miles.
After watching the Netflix docu-series of "Turning Point - The Bomb and The Cold War", it just pointless to try to save the earth by driving EV.
The amount of pollution caused by those bomb testings are way more that we spew out of our tailpipes. lol.

[Seaford]

I seriously considered an EV before I bought the 840i - here in the UK the infrastructure is lagging behind the technology; I live in a town of 27,000 and there are two public charging points (albeit I would have charged at home).

I agree with the comment above that an EV is a great choice as a second car for local driving…..I can’t justify two cars - although 95% of my driving is locsl!!

[TupperBMW]

Do a few revs, downshifts, and cold starts in your ICE sports cars and tell me that an EV will satisfy you.

Not me. I'm fine driving a toaster on wheels to make a virtue signaling douche politician from California happy, but I will treat it exactly like what it is.

[M8Bimmer]

Here in Canada we get a fair amount of cold weather. Lots of below zero days. Today it's barely above zero here. So range would count a lot!
I see plenty of Tesla's here. But not nearly as many other brand electrics/EV.
I think Tesla owners would buy them if they had snakes under the seats. They love em and like the statement imo. We have more and more charging stations here and there. A lot popping up in office and commercial building lots.
Do you have to pay to use one?
I've never approached one to see.
As far as me buying an EV ....not gonna happen . A hybrid maybe.
I bought my M8 as my way of enjoying the future of my cars. I've got a few ICE's to keep me happy.
I also need a real engine (as I think of ICE's) to enjoy the car.
Some electric Eggbeater does NOT cut the mustard for many of us car guys.
Hell I've even got a V10 truck on propane. Fuck electric trucks too. Useless basically. Unless you don't really do work with it. I've got over 1000km's of range just on propane. Plus about 300 miles on gas. EV's could not even come close.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

I see plenty of Tesla's here. But not nearly as many other brand electrics/EV.
I think Tesla owners would buy them if they had snakes under the seats. They love em and like the statement imo.

That's the equivalent of Apple products. I have friends that ditch what they have when the latest and greatest Apple replacement hits the market. One could call it extreme brand loyalty or ignorance.

Originally Posted by M8Bimmer

We have more and more charging stations here and there. A lot popping up in office and commercial building lots.
Do you have to pay to use one?

One of the original selling points of initial Model S (and believe X as well), i.e. super charging for life. Well, Tesla crawled that back in 2018 so only the original owners get the privilege (everyone else post facto is PAYGO) but due to outrage there is a window of opportunity to transfer it to a new Tesla purchased with the following conditions:

Have your new Tesla vehicle delivered between February 3, 2024 and March 31, 2024;
Be the legal owner and registrant of the current vehicle with free Supercharging for at least 48 hours after delivery of your new vehicle;
Have the current vehicle and the new vehicle on the same Tesla Account; and
Agree to all additional terms and conditions

[M8Bimmer]

I'll have to take a look at one when I'm near one.
I assume you can use a debit card to pay.
The whole concept just doesn't float my boat. I'm too addicted and used to an ICE.
Although the savings are interesting.
Tesla's are just too ugly for me to ever buy one. The interiors suck as well.
Their idea of minimalist-ism just says cheap to me. They look like some poorly designed GM product from 35 years ago. I saw 3 white ones the other day all lined up behind each other. Same model whatever they were. They were making a right hand turn. It look like a clown parade. They looked like stamped out humans in tin cans....lol.
I don't want to be in the parade.

[xmanpro]

Had a Taycan ct in Norway last summer for a little bit and honestly the places I visited had a pretty mature EV infrastructure. For daily driving at less than 300 miles/day, charging overnight was not a big deal. I cannot remember the last time I drove 300 miles in one day in one of my other ICE cars - but I might be an outlier. Norway ain’t the US so I’m not tryna make that comparison but I think once the infrastructure is mature enough and in place then we will have many more options. I think there will be a market for both ICE and EVs and hybrids - capitalism and what the public really want will take care of this over gov mandates etc.

Maybe the majority of the populus will want only EVs one day but, in my mind, that’s prolly after I’m starting my second family after retirement.

P.S. - I’m not down with Tesla’s - really like the BMW and Porsche offerings tho

[m3_08]

my wife loves her IX M60. She drives about 30 miles a day, she used automatic parking/pull out of the garage and we charge only at home. Perfect fit.
Forgot to mention the safety aspect: it's not safe anymore in major metropolitan areas to visit gas station for woman driving luxury brand vehicle and EV covers that threat.

[Seaford]

Originally Posted by xmanpro

Had a Taycan ct in Norway last summer for a little bit and honestly the places I visited had a pretty mature EV infrastructure. For daily driving at less than 300 miles/day, charging overnight was not a big deal. I cannot remember the last time I drove 300 miles in one day in one of my other ICE cars - but I might be an outlier. Norway ain’t the US so I’m not tryna make that comparison but I think once the infrastructure is mature enough and in place then we will have many more options. I think there will be a market for both ICE and EVs and hybrids - capitalism and what the public really want will take care of this over gov mandates etc.

Maybe the majority of the populus will want only EVs one day but, in my mind, that’s prolly after I’m starting my second family after retirement.

P.S. - I’m not down with Tesla’s - really like the BMW and Porsche offerings tho

Norway is the role model infrastructure for EVs - if I lived there (and itis a lovely country) I think 8 would be 8n an EV by now.

They also have a range of car (can’t for the life of me remember the brand) where instead of recharging you simply pull up next to a bay, press a button in the car that takes it into the bay, the battery drops out the bottom and is replaced by a fully charged battery. All automated, takes less than five minutes. Now that is interesting….

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Seaford

Norway is the role model infrastructure for EVs - if I lived there (and itis a lovely country) I think 8 would be 8n an EV by now.

They also have a range of car (can’t for the life of me remember the brand) where instead of recharging you simply pull up next to a bay, press a button in the car that takes it into the bay, the battery drops out the bottom and is replaced by a fully charged battery. All automated, takes less than five minutes. Now that is interesting….

That is interesting indeed.
I wonder how will that work when people cheat the system to go in there to swap their dying battery to the good one.

[bloozemanAZ]

Well it finally happened. I was sitting at an offramp waiting for the light to change and in the distance (it was nighttime) I saw a vehicle heading under the overpass with front headlights that were just a strip of light. Thoughts in my head was a new Lucid I've never seen or a Rivan but discounted that as have seen many.

Sat there and watched at least in what my opinion is an abomination on the road. Tesla Cybertruck. I'm sure it has some positives but esthetics surely isn't one of them. 😜

[Seaford]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

That is interesting indeed.
I wonder how will that work when people cheat the system to go in there to swap their dying battery to the good one.

I woukd hazard a guess that the battery exchanges are non a subscription or similar basis so you don’t actually own your ‘own’ battery.

[TupperBMW]

The only thing favoring EV's right now is newer ICE cars continue to have more and more annoying features and less and less of the character that makes them so appealing.

Auto Start stop, for example, is just a complete pain in the a$$. Whichever bureaucrat came up with mandating that in cars should be dragged out into the public square and tarred and feathered.

Then you've got the muffled sound. While I haven't heard it in person, I've seen videos of the S68 engine. Are you kidding me? It doesn't even sound like a V8 engine, it just sounds like muffled groaning. More and more we are reliant on the aftermarket to get the sounds/experience that we crave out of our cars.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by TupperBMW

The only thing favoring EV's right now is newer ICE cars continue to have more and more annoying features and less and less of the character that makes them so appealing.

Auto Start stop, for example, is just a complete pain in the a$$. Whichever bureaucrat came up with mandating that in cars should be dragged out into the public square and tarred and feathered.

Then you've got the muffled sound. While I haven't heard it in person, I've seen videos of the S68 engine. Are you kidding me? It doesn't even sound like a V8 engine, it just sounds like muffled groaning. More and more we are reliant on the aftermarket to get the sounds/experience that we crave out of our cars.

True, but cross your fingers really hard for DOT not to adopt EU2 or newer regulation where it is much quieter.

Here is my XM with S68, it still have the V8 sound.

https://youtu.be/HmE-95qqjcs?si=kwjAMp8Az4SYazl7

[TupperBMW]

^ That sounds pretty nice, actually

[ikonn]

The whole cold snap thing was a bit of a red herring and over blown by the media imo. There’s no doubt that batteries degrade in the cold, and older battery technologies degrade faster than new batteries. Also, if you need daily longer range performance and if you don’t have access to level 2 home charging, you would have been challenged during the cold snap.

But the reality is that the cold snap mostly exposed inexperienced EV owners and created click bait news. Experienced EV drivers would utilize energy management techniques like battery pre-conditioning and seat/wheel heaters instead of inefficient cabin air heating. They would also have charging at home. Norway is the poster child for EV countries and you sure didn’t hear the level of noise that North Americans got in January. And btw, Norway is freaking cold in winter. And yet in January, 92% of new car sales were EVs in Norway. The NA media sure never mentioned that.

For sure, EVs are not for everyone, but if you can afford them and you can charge at home, EVs can work just fine. Not to mention that battery technology is improving leaps and bounds. And charging infrastructure is not far behind.

Imo, the perfect 2 car combination would be a 500+ hp EV and a 500+hp twin turbo V8 ICE car lol. Assuming you have a 2 car garage with level 2 charging.

[Seaford]

One of the things that is overlooked in the EV v ICE argument (that is rarely if ever presented in a balanced way showing pros and cons of both) is that EVs convert over 90% of their energy source into power at the wheels opposed to ICEs where the figure is between 20 and 30% (annoyingly diesels are more efficient (or maybe less inefficient!) than petrol). ICEs are far more efficient at producing heat and noise than power.

For what it’s worth I would have the just launched updated Taycan Turbo S in a heartbeat if I could afford it!!