[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by Duck360198

We know they don't want the race to end on a safety car, but, if they had red-flagged the race immediately for clean-up, and everyone went to the pits, wouldn't that have leveled the playing field (meaning Max and Lewis) by changing tires for at least a few laps of racing? At that point it would have come down to true strategy and the better driver.

There was no cause to red flag this race. They only do that in specific circumstances, like when they need to repair crash barriers or there is too much debris spread all over the track that the cars can’t safely navigate through.

IMO


Hamilton had the same opportunities to pit as Max did if we're talking strategy.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by E92inPHX

I don’t know if Lewis is currently in a relationship but I’d prefer their ladies duke it out but with oil

Negative . The model swapped him with another prick .

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

There was no cause to red flag this race. They only do that in specific circumstances, like when they need to repair crash barriers or there is too much debris spread all over the track that the cars can’t safely navigate through.

IMO


Hamilton had the same opportunities to pit as Max did if we're talking strategy.

Pit strategy for RB and MB would be different since HAM had earned a 12 second lead on MAX at the time of the SC. RB didn't have the pace to run with MB today so they had nothing to lose by pitting, MB did have something to lose (1st track position). It's not really about pit strategy, it's about race direction deciding to invent a new rule on the spot to allow only the cars between HAM and MAX to pass the safety car.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M2CS

Pit strategy for RB and MB would be different since HAM had earned a 12 second lead on MAX at the time of the SC. RB didn't have the pace to run with MB today so they had nothing to lose by pitting, MB did have something to lose (1st track position). It's not really about pit strategy, it's about race direction deciding to invent a new rule on the spot to allow only the cars between HAM and MAX to pass the safety car.

You can't honestly believe that this WDC should have been decided with Schumacher and Stroll unlapping themselves.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Hamilton had the same opportunities to pit as Max did if we're talking strategy.

You could say that but that's hindsight. If there was any doubt that by not pitting HAM's lead would be in jeopardy, Mercedes would have done it. But there was nothing in the data or in the race to indicate. HAM had this race on cruise control - with the only real hiccup having to pass PER but after that, his pace was far greater than VER.

By pitting, they would just be copying RB which some people have accused Mercedes in doing and also be giving up track position.

In sports, you can usually pick out parts of a game, race or whatever where a a team should have done this or doing something else might have changed the course of the game. This race is not that. Mercedes had this from the go and it really needed something miraculous to happen for them to lose it.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You could say that but that's hindsight. If there was any doubt that by not pitting HAM's lead would be in jeopardy, Mercedes would have done it. But there was nothing in the data or in the race to indicate. HAM had this race on cruise control - with the only real hiccup having to pass PER but after that, his pace was far greater than VER.

By pitting, they would just be copying RB which some people have accused Mercedes in doing and also be giving up track position.

In sports, you can usually pick out parts of a game, race or whatever where a a team should have done this or doing something else might have changed the course of the game. This race is not that. Mercedes had this from the go and it really needed something miraculous to happen for them to lose it.

Of course it's hindsight, but had Merc suggested to HAM there's a chance you'd be defending against VER on softs, OR you could pit, be on equal tires, and have to fight back from 2nd, which do you think HAM would have taken?

[kyrix1st]

Crazy what happened with the last 3 laps under safety car. Absolute disaster of a call in letting the lapped cars pass so late into the lap 56. Lewis got robbed IMO.

[JustinHEMI]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

You could say that but that's hindsight. If there was any doubt that by not pitting HAM's lead would be in jeopardy, Mercedes would have done it. But there was nothing in the data or in the race to indicate. HAM had this race on cruise control - with the only real hiccup having to pass PER but after that, his pace was far greater than VER.

By pitting, they would just be copying RB which some people have accused Mercedes in doing and also be giving up track position.

In sports, you can usually pick out parts of a game, race or whatever where a a team should have done this or doing something else might have changed the course of the game. This race is not that. Mercedes had this from the go and it really needed something miraculous to happen for them to lose it.

Yep of course it's in hindsight, but even Ham acknowledged the error at the end. My ultimate point was there were a lot of variables today, and I previously acknowledge the miracle that Max received.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

You can't honestly believe that this WDC should have been decided with Schumacher and Stroll unlapping themselves.

The race should've ended however the rulebook dictated the handling of safety cars. Teams make a decision to pit or not based on track position. RB gave up track position to pit for softs and rejoined the track behind more cars. MB decided to stay out and keep their track position. Race direction decided to completely screw that up by removing the disadvantage RB decided to take by pitting. That is not how the WDC should have ended. If MAX/RB was kicking Mercedes butt all race with superior pace, I would say the same thing if HAM won the race that way. It's BS and ruins the integrity of the sport.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Man, for some of you guys, I really hope today’s race result doesn’t totally obscure an unmatched F1 season. The likes of which we’ll almost surely never experience again.

If you’re in HAM’s camp, you must be joking that you think the same call wouldn’t have been made if the shoe was on the other foot… Masi was right. Ending THIS wdc under safety car, or with VER having to first navigate numerous lapped, irrelevant cars? Come the eff on.

HAM’s luck, which has been abundant, ran out in the final stages of today’s race.

HAM’s skill did not. He deserved today’s race win. Has he deserved them all this year? Were they all without controversy? I don’t think so. What happened today was motor racing, fate. Just as the cards have fallen in HAM’s favor innumerable times over the years, the opposite was true today.

Merc could have pitted HAM and put him on equal tires. It was a gamble either way, but as the Williams was cleaned up it was pretty clear they were going to do everything they could to get 1-2 more laps in. To end the championship racing. I had that impression watching the broadcast. Merc didn't? They did, but opted for track position. With his pace today, I would have absolutely favored HAM on that one lap restart scenario from 2nd position.

Also worth noting, HAM didn’t go for contact in that final exchange with VER. At that point he could have taken his chances with his left front bumping VER’s right rear once Max had nearly cleared him. Class act, incredible champion. Would VER have been similarly clean to the end? Doubtful.

VER’s decision to pass as early as possible (T5) was vintage Max. No delay, maximum attack, always. As was him lighting up the rear tires coming out of the final corner onto the front straight. Because you’d take your chances with a bit of oversteer with a few hundred meters to go in the championship, good lord…

WHAT A SEASON. Can only hope that the formula changes for next year bring some more drivers & teams into the mix, create uncertainty until the end. That’s the best we can hope for because there will never be another 1 on 1 battle quite like this.

Agree with you 100% all around.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Of course it's hindsight, but had Merc suggested to HAM there's a chance you'd be defending against VER on softs, OR you could pit, be on equal tires, and have to fight back from 2nd, which do you think HAM would have taken?

That's what I mean. If they had suggested to HAM that scenario might be a possibility, I'm sure they would have done it but nothing was ever heard on the radio during the race. They were very adamant with their pace and lead after switching to the hard compound. HAM even questioned why but the pit wall said VER would have to gain 0.8 seconds on each lap to overtake HAM and that was when he had a 14 second lead with 13-14 laps left and with traffic between them.

If this was a back/forth race where each driver was trading positions, yeah, maybe Mercedes should have considered it but HAM was out in front for the entire race and the math for pace was accurate.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by M2CS

The race should've ended however the rulebook dictated the handling of safety cars. Teams make a decision to pit or not based on track position. RB gave up track position to pit for softs and rejoined the track behind more cars. MB decided to stay out and keep their track position. Race direction decided to completely screw that up by removing the disadvantage RB decided to take by pitting. That is not how the WDC should have ended.

It ended in a fateful and epic final lap scrap. That's what will be remembered, along with many other high points from this unreal season.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M2CS

The race should've ended however the rulebook dictated the handling of safety cars. Teams make a decision to pit or not based on track position. RB gave up track position to pit for softs and rejoined the track behind more cars. MB decided to stay out and keep their track position. Race direction decided to completely screw that up by removing the disadvantage RB decided to take by pitting. That is not how the WDC should have ended. If MAX/RB was kicking Mercedes butt all race with superior pace, I would say the same thing if HAM won the race that way. It's BS and ruins the integrity of the sport.

Fully agree on the track position. Lewis and Merc decided to stay out with the older hards during the earlier VSC due to their track position; it is exactly what they did for the later safety car situation as well. Making a bunch of terrible calls that affected both teams doesn't justify the claim that both teams were treated fairly.

[Duck360198]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

There was no cause to red flag this race. They only do that in specific circumstances, like when they need to repair crash barriers or there is too much debris spread all over the track that the cars can’t safely navigate through.

IMO

Hamilton had the same opportunities to pit as Max did if we're talking strategy.

So what's the cause to allow a handful of cars to pass the safety car vs. all of them? Because Race Control wanted a race to the end. But even that was bull because everyone knew Lewis didn't have a chance with his tires. So, if you bend the rules because you want racing, then red flag the race (even if you don't have to) and allow them to get tires based on any strategy they want and let them race for 4 laps or whatever it would have been.

Max made his additional pits because he had absolutely nothing to lose. They were waiting for that "miracle." Mercedes didn't need to modify their strategy because by all accounts, Max didn't have the pace. As soon as the safety car came out, they had no chance because track position would have been lost.

[FormulaMMM]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

That's what I mean. If they had suggested to HAM that scenario might be a possibility, I'm sure they would have done it but nothing was ever heard on the radio during the race. They were very adamant with their pace and lead after switching to the hard compound. HAM even questioned why but the pit wall said VER would have to gain 0.8 seconds on each lap to overtake HAM and that was when he had a 14 second lead with 13-14 laps left and with traffic between them.

If this was a back/forth race where each driver was trading positions, yeah, maybe Mercedes should have considered it but HAM was out in front for the entire race and the math for pace was accurate.

Agreed, Merc had it in the bag all day, perfect execution, but they let their guard down. They needed to give HAM that final option. Bet he would have taken it

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Fully agree on the track position. Lewis and Merc decided to stay out with the older hards during the earlier VSC due to their track position; it is exactly what they did for the later safety car situation as well. Making a bunch of terrible calls that affected both teams doesn't justify the claim that both teams were treated fairly.

That makes no sense. You cannot say both teams were treated fairly when the rules were altered to remove all the cars between HAM and MAX. That's one of the most unfair calls in the history of the sport.

[M5Rick]

Take it to the Max

[RMachuca3d]

FIA handing out championships blatantly now? At least they tried to hide it before.

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by M2CS

That makes no sense. You cannot say both teams were treated fairly when the rules were altered to remove all the cars between HAM and MAX. That's one of the most unfair calls in the history of the sport.

I am saying, the fact that FIA made a bunch of terrible calls for both teams, does not justify what FIA claims to have been "treating both teams" fairly.

It's the usual recipe of Masi and his team in justifying their questionable calls changing rules midway during the race.

[Hulk Smash]

Originally Posted by FormulaMMM

Agreed, Merc had it in the bag all day, perfect execution, but they let their guard down. They needed to give HAM that final option. Bet he would have taken it

MB didn't let their guard down, they would've won the race had it been handled the same way safety cars were handled in the past. They had no psychic ability to know that Masi was going to alter rules in RB's favor (neither did RB for that matter). If Masi didn't give a damn about rules and wanted a final lap showdown, he should've just red flagged the race and let HAM and MAX doing a standing start both on soft tires.

[GuidoK]

[Merami fan]

The safety car incident was handled strangely, at least according to what appears to be the letter of the law (rule book). It makes sense from a racing standpoint, though. Unlucky for Lewis, maybe. Still very lucky overall this season.

Just gonna leave these reminders here for anyone who thinks Lewis deserved the title based on today alone... (also refer to lap 1 today)