[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Andycam

I'm in Sweden, land of vikings, elks and lingonberries.

Makes sense what you are saying. Consumer law here is a bit different, you don't necessarily need to argue your case in court and the law is pretty clear on if a thing does not live up to the performance/quality you could reasonably expect.

Ah well, next time my car goes to the shop I will at least try to get them to read the launch control number so I know what I am dealing with. My car had 590 miles on it when I bought it so if I'm unlucky a lot of those launches went away then

gotcha, yeah good luck - hopefully it's okay and hasn't been launched!!

[moonM8]

Originally Posted by Niptucker

Is there a way to see how many times it has been done?

I don't know of a way that you can personally do it yourself. Best bet would be a BMW tech to look into it. But even that I'm not certain. There has to be a way though you would assume.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by moonM8

I don't know of a way that you can personally do it yourself. Best bet would be a BMW tech to look into it. But even that I'm not certain. There has to be a way though you would assume.

I believe BMW is the only one that has the computer to read the counters.

[willie55912]

Just be thrilled that you can get 100 launches. I remember the early M6 with the 10 cylinder motor after 3 launches; the transmission was toast and to be replaced. Early Customers did not know of this and were pissed when warranty work was denied.

[unfoundnemo]

The manual states "The use of Launch Control causes premature component wear since this function represents a very heavy load for the vehicle". I would imagine that would be enough for them to argue the limit was justified and the buyer was aware that excessive use would have consequences.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by unfoundnemo

The manual states "The use of Launch Control causes premature component wear since this function represents a very heavy load for the vehicle". I would imagine that would be enough for them to argue the limit was justified and the buyer was aware that excessive use would have consequences.

100%

[Publius]

I see the argument BMW might make, but don't buy it. I'm seeing this as you are @Andycam. Curious what others think.

I absolutely relied on BMW's representations about the Launch Mode feature to inform my purchase decision. BMW advertises 0-60mph in 3.0s for an M8 Comp GC. There is no asterisk next to that claim saying "only the first 100 times you try it, after which we're going to slow your car's acceleration because it's probably too hard on your tranny".

For BMW to—without informing you before purchase, in the user's guide, or anyplace else, even after 100 Launches—deprecate the performance of your car not because of actual wear & tear, but on a projection of what the level of wear/tear will be after a somewhat arbitrary number of Launches, is flat out deceptive.

Launch Mode's impact on your drivetrain is no different than hard braking's impact on pads and rotors. I see no reason why BMW, or ZF, should have any right to disable functionality for your car without unambiguously informing you, in advance.

The language that @unfoundnemo quoted from the user's guide doesn't come close to implying "if you use Launch Mode too many times, we're going to cripple it". It simply states that Launch Mode causes extra wear and tear. Getting from the language of the user's guide, to "the buyer was aware that excessive use would have consequences" so it's ok if BMW cripples an advertised feature without telling you, is a bridge too far.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you would have to prove to a court that you relied on BMW's claims about Launch Mode performance, or that a specific financial harm resulted from BMW's practice. You'd only need to show BMW's advertised performance, their failure to inform you that performance would be curtailed after 100 Launches, and that a reasonable buyer of a BMW M would rely on BMW's representations in their purchase decision. That's easy to do. Monetary awards need not be limited to actual economic damage. In US courts, you could also be awarded consequential damages (e.g. a new car with a fresh Launch Mode counter) or punitive damages (e.g. $1 million to teach the manufacturer a lesson about not being upfront with their customers.)

It is your drivetrain. You own it. If you want to wear it out, that should your decision.

I can see BMW wanting to limit their warranty liability that might result from tons of Launches. That would be reasonable. Surreptitiously slowing the car is simply deceptive, and possibly violates federal if not state consumer protection laws in the US.

Signed,
New M8 owner who has used Launch Control 0 times, so far.

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

100%

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Publius

I see the argument BMW might make, but don't buy it. I'm seeing this as you are @Andycam. Curious what others think.

I absolutely relied on BMW's representations about the Launch Mode feature to inform my purchase decision. BMW advertises 0-60mph in 3.0s for an M8 Comp GC. There is no asterisk next to that claim saying "only the first 100 times you try it, after which we're going to slow your car's acceleration because it's probably too hard on your tranny".

For BMW to—without informing you before purchase, in the user's guide, or anyplace else, even after 100 Launches—deprecate the performance of your car not because of actual wear & tear, but on a projection of what the level of wear/tear will be after a somewhat arbitrary number of Launches, is flat out deceptive.

Launch Mode's impact on your drivetrain is no different than hard braking's impact on pads and rotors. I see no reason why BMW, or ZF, should have any right to disable functionality for your car without unambiguously informing you, in advance.

The language that @unfoundnemo quoted from the user's guide doesn't come close to implying "if you use Launch Mode too many times, we're going to cripple it". It simply states that Launch Mode causes extra wear and tear. Getting from the language of the user's guide, to "the buyer was aware that excessive use would have consequences" so it's ok if BMW cripples an advertised feature without telling you, is a bridge too far.

I am not a lawyer, but I don't believe you would have to prove to a court that you relied on BMW's claims about Launch Mode performance, or that a specific financial harm resulted from BMW's practice. You'd only need to show BMW's advertised performance, their failure to inform you that performance would be curtailed after 100 Launches, and that a reasonable buyer of a BMW M would rely on BMW's representations in their purchase decision. That's easy to do. Monetary awards need not be limited to actual economic damage. In US courts, you could also be awarded consequential damages (e.g. a new car with a fresh Launch Mode counter) or punitive damages (e.g. $1 million to teach the manufacturer a lesson about not being upfront with their customers.)

It is your drivetrain. You own it. If you want to wear it out, that should your decision.

I can see BMW wanting to limit their warranty liability that might result from tons of Launches. That would be reasonable. Surreptitiously slowing the car is simply deceptive, and possibly violates federal if not state consumer protection laws in the US.

Signed,
New M8 owner who has used Launch Control 0 times, so far.

I wish that was the case, but that's not how the law works. since I'm an owner and licensed attorney, I'm not going to play devils advocate and help BMW make their case. But let's just say, I think they have a stronger case than your hoping for.

it's dangerous when you know just enough to throw 15 different legal concepts that are not related together and try to apply incorrectly.
it's a good effort though and nice try.

False advertising only applies when they put an ad on TV or in the newspaper for selling and marketing. It has to be completely false and you need to show that it's the only reason you bought it.
For example, a screwdriver that can't work. not a philips when you needed a flat head. nor a 6" vs a 12" tool.

and even then, usually it's large collective actions like a government lawsuit over company false advertising. the average consumer that was harmed usually gets Nothing for the suit. but often companies will be forced to change or stop selling in the USA.

We aren't happy, but in any state besides maybe California, you're chances of winning are going to be slim.

[Publius]

Good thing I live in California. In any case, I'm not advocating for anyone taking any legal action. I certainly don't plan to. I just want to enjoy my car, and like others, wish the manufacturer wouldn't decide to reduce my enjoyment because I want to wear out my own drivetrain (which I realize could cost me a lot of money to replace). I may never get to 100 Launches anyway. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I wish that was the case, but that's not how the law works.
[...]
We aren't happy, but in any state besides maybe California, you're chances of winning are going to be slim.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Publius

Good thing I live in California. In any case, I'm not advocating for anyone taking any legal action. I certainly don't plan to. I just want to enjoy my car, and like others, wish the manufacturer wouldn't decide to reduce my enjoyment because I want to wear out my own drivetrain (which I realize could cost me a lot of money to replace). I may never get to 100 Launches anyway. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I wish that was the case, but that's not how the law works. since I'm an owner and licensed attorney, I'm not going to play devils advocate and help BMW make their case. But let's just say, I think they have a stronger case than your hoping for.

it's dangerous when you know just enough to throw 15 different legal concepts that are not related together and try to apply incorrectly.
it's a good effort though and nice try.

False advertising only applies when they put an ad on TV or in the newspaper for selling and marketing. It has to be completely false and you need to show that it's the only reason you bought it.
For example, a screwdriver that can't work. not a philips when you needed a flat head. nor a 6" vs a 12" tool.

and even then, usually it's large collective actions like a government lawsuit over company false advertising. the average consumer that was harmed usually gets Nothing for the suit. but often companies will be forced to change or stop selling in the USA.

We aren't happy, but in any state besides maybe California, you're chances of winning are going to be slim.

My take is if I do not buy out the lease on my 2020 M850i (highly unlikely now with the 2022 and beyond MSRP price drop) I'm going to make sure I burn up all 100 launches before returning the car.

[Neptune7]

Taken from the recent article on launch control for M3/4. This implies there isn't a limit. Odd!

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

Taken from the recent article on launch control for M3/4. This implies there isn't a limit. Odd!

Remember that the car will still engage launch control—everything appears to behave in the same way until you notice the distinct difference in the shift pattern. Below 100, it feels like the car convulses in a positive way into the next gear with no appreciable loss or pause in propulsion. Once you hit the limit, it cracks into the next gear causing a distinct loss of propulsion… and it's this that significantly impacts acceleration numbers.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Remember that the car will still engage launch control—everything appears to behave in the same way until you notice the distinct difference in the shift pattern. Below 100, it feels like the car convulses in a positive way into the next gear with no appreciable loss or pause in propulsion. Once you hit the limit, it cracks into the next gear causing a distinct loss of propulsion… and it's this that significantly impacts acceleration numbers.

so 0-60 isn't impacted, just speeds over 100?

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

so 0-60 isn't impacted, just speeds over 100?

Sadly both. I can just crack into the mid 2.8s now and 10.7/10.8 in the 1/4 mile. I'd estimate you lose a 10th of a second on every shift and it's more pronounced from 1st to 2nd and 4th to 5th (the latter being a perplexed W<hy>TF moment!).

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Sadly both. I can just crack into the mid 2.8s now and 10.7/10.8 in the 1/4 mile. I'd estimate you lose a 10th of a second on every shift and it's more pronounced from 1st to 2nd and 4th to 5th (the latter being a perplexed W<hy>TF moment!).

yikes!

[Neptune7]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Remember that the car will still engage launch control—everything appears to behave in the same way until you notice the distinct difference in the shift pattern. Below 100, it feels like the car convulses in a positive way into the next gear with no appreciable loss or pause in propulsion. Once you hit the limit, it cracks into the next gear causing a distinct loss of propulsion… and it's this that significantly impacts acceleration numbers.

Yes I remember you saying this but it's hard for me to understand how BMW can get away with the nuance. It's like saying the car will continue to turn on the ignition switch but won't actually start the engine after 100 tries. I mean, it's clear that the special shift algorithm is the point of launching via launch control.

Perhaps we need to somehow compel BMW to look into this and publish a recall or an explanation.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

Yes I remember you saying this but it's hard for me to understand how BMW can get away with the nuance. It's like saying the car will continue to turn on the ignition switch but won't actually start the engine after 100 tries. I mean, it's clear that the special shift algorithm is the point of launching via launch control.

Perhaps we need to somehow compel BMW to look into this and publish a recall or an explanation.

in a perfect world, there should be an option where you can sign a waiver to allow you to exceed the 100 Launches knowing that bmw won't be liable for damages. so then it's your choice.

but it's a tough road to plow.

[kevinckb6]

XHP Flashtool - in "Drag mode" disables and bypasses launch control counters..

[Bulent Ali]

Make every launch count ! Cats have 9 lives and the BM has a 100.
I guess the limited number of launches is also about preserving the transmission and its clutches , its drive shaft and much more .
Manual gearbox cars would burn out its clutch very easily and early due to quick take offs ( will spins so so ) and our fathers would ask " what the he'll did you do to those tires ?
The 1 main reason of buying new is the to avoid drive train wear ....

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by kevinckb6

XHP Flashtool - in "Drag mode" disables and bypasses launch control counters..

… and all here should believe you because?

[Seaford]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

I ve been noticing that my 0 to 60 dragy times are not the same compared to few month ago despite the tires hooking up well with the warm weather and then noticed that i can hear the farts when the car shifts after launching that means slower shifts and explains the slower 0 to 60 times
I hate BMW for limiting the launch control numbers

While the warm weather may help grip as I understand engine performance potentially increases as temperature drops due to higher density of oxygen in the air.

[Kponti]

Originally Posted by kevinckb6

XHP Flashtool - in "Drag mode" disables and bypasses launch control counters..

Driven an M5 with it and yes it does improve launch and shifts enough to get your acceleration back (and more). But it doesn't specifically disable the launch counter though.
Your car will still be slower if you turn it off.

That being said, is it available for a 2022/2023 M8 yet?