[ctelimad]

I ve been noticing that my 0 to 60 dragy times are not the same compared to few month ago despite the tires hooking up well with the warm weather and then noticed that i can hear the farts when the car shifts after launching that means slower shifts and explains the slower 0 to 60 times
I hate BMW for limiting the launch control numbers

[Andycam]

There's a limit to the total numer of times you can do it??

I thought there was just a cool-down period and the disclaimer in the manual...

[unfoundnemo]

Originally Posted by ctelimad

I ve been noticing that my 0 to 60 dragy times are not the same compared to few month ago despite the tires hooking up well with the warm weather and then noticed that i can hear the farts when the car shifts after launching that means slower shifts and explains the slower 0 to 60 times
I hate BMW for limiting the launch control numbers

I'd donate some of mine if I could, I think I've used it maybe 3 times in total as I feel just fine just trying to gain a little boost on brake.

I'm not sure I quite get the limit as you'd think the smoother/quicker shifts cause less wear, but I suppose my mind isn't computing what else is occurring to make those quick shifts happen.

[moonM8]

Originally Posted by Andycam

There's a limit to the total numer of times you can do it??

I thought there was just a cool-down period and the disclaimer in the manual...

There is definitely a limit. BMW are not the only cars that have the limit. It's actually pretty common. Main thing is just becareful when buying a used M because you don't want to buy one that's been all used up.

[MystroX5]

So then what after 100 launches??

[Al Pinã]

Like anything controlled by the ECU, there's a way to disable it.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by ALPINA_DREAMS

Like anything controlled by the ECU, there's a way to disable it.

It's not controlled by the ECU, it's a ZF ceiling imposed by the TCU.

To date and as far as I'm aware, nobody has found a way around it including getting a TCU tune.

Once you hit it, the ZF transmission disables one of the quickshift modes (QS 1, 2 and 3)--IIRC, QS3 is what's used for launching. Without it, you'll hear the bangs as the car shifts up and will feel the typical rebound from power loss as the current gear is disengaged to back on the power again as the new gear engages. Without it, I don't even bother taking my cars to the dragstrip since I lose almost 0.5s on the 0-60 and a further tenth or more on each subsequent shift. It's especially noticeable from 1st-2nd and from 4th to 5th.

[Andycam]

Do you know if this also applies to the M850? And other ZF gearbox cars?

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Andycam

Do you know if this also applies to the M850? And other ZF gearbox cars?

I don't, sorry.

[Niptucker]

Originally Posted by moonM8

There is definitely a limit. BMW are not the only cars that have the limit. It's actually pretty common. Main thing is just becareful when buying a used M because you don't want to buy one that's been all used up.

Is there a way to see how many times it has been done?

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Niptucker

Is there a way to see how many times it has been done?

As before, I've never heard of a way (beyond a BMW tech doing it for you).

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

I don't, sorry.

yes, it applies to the M850i and m8. both

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Niptucker

Is there a way to see how many times it has been done?

not directly, no. but you can get any shop to download a full ppi report that will show how many times it's been Redlined. and then guess at the number of launches.

each time it redlines, it could be manual or other reasons. but 2-3 redlines in a row at higher gears; is usually an indication on the report. but it's 50/50% guess.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

not directly, no. but you can get any shop to download a full ppi report that will show how many times it's been Redlined. and then guess at the number of launches.

each time it redlines, it could be manual or other reasons. but 2-3 redlines in a row at higher gears; is usually an indication on the report. but it's 50/50% guess.

Yes, there is. Speak what you know, not what you think—the latter isn't helpful.

You're also citing a way to infer the launch count using the same approach as I'm saying can precisely show you the launch count—red line doesn't equate to launch, not even close. If you mash the pedal from a light, that'll count using your method. Not the same thing; not at all.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yes, it applies to the M850i and m8. both

Thanks. Wasn't sure although it seems like a reasonable assumption.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Yes, there is. Speak what you know, not what you think—the latter isn't helpful.

You're also citing a way to infer the launch count using the same approach as I'm saying can precisely show you the launch count—red line doesn't equate to launch, not even close. If you mash the pedal from a light, that'll count using your method. Not the same thing; not at all.

Yes, but only BMW can see the launch counter. I'm not sure of any over the counter products that will show you.

If you're on your own; either go to BMW, or get any report and try to guess the redline launches.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Thanks. Wasn't sure although it seems like a reasonable assumption.

it's not a guess, I know 100% fact that it applies to both the m8 and m850.
It's true across the entire line up. Everything that Audi, MB, and BMW makes with the launch counters.
I've heard rumors about Porsche too, but I'm not sure about others. But it's a fact it's on all the BMW with transmission and launch counters.
Also it's on most the AMG and IS lines.

[Andycam]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

I've heard rumors about Porsche too, but I'm not sure about others. But it's a fact it's on all the BMW with transmission and launch counters.
Also it's on most the AMG and IS lines.

Interesting. I read somewhere that during the PDK development for the 911 the engineers finally gave up - no matter how many consecutive launches they did there was never any problem with the gearbox. And wasn't it Road & Track that launched one 50 times back to back in a video some years back?

As there is nothing in the owner's manual on this and the sales channel doesn't mention it, I wonder how this would play out from a BMW liability perspective. The manufacturer's stated acceleration times are with launch control I would assume, as you want to drive sales with the best stats possible. If I buy a new car (clearing the run-in period nicely for sake of argument) and do one launch a day, in three months the car would not perform as advertised anymore. Nothing would be broken, nothing would be damaged or wrong, it's just not performing as advertised. I have not violated anything the instruction manual says I shouldn't do. I wonder if a case could be made against BMW.

A bit like Dieselgate when you buy a car with certain engine performance, and then out of the blue it gets detuned by the manufacturer. You don't get the product that you ordered and paid for.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Andycam

Interesting. I read somewhere that during the PDK development for the 911 the engineers finally gave up - no matter how many consecutive launches they did there was never any problem with the gearbox. And wasn't it Road & Track that launched one 50 times back to back in a video some years back?

As there is nothing in the owner's manual on this and the sales channel doesn't mention it, I wonder how this would play out from a BMW liability perspective. The manufacturer's stated acceleration times are with launch control I would assume, as you want to drive sales with the best stats possible. If I buy a new car (clearing the run-in period nicely for sake of argument) and do one launch a day, in three months the car would not perform as advertised anymore. Nothing would be broken, nothing would be damaged or wrong, it's just not performing as advertised. I have not violated anything the instruction manual says I shouldn't do. I wonder if a case could be made against BMW.

A bit like Dieselgate when you buy a car with certain engine performance, and then out of the blue it gets detuned by the manufacturer. You don't get the product that you ordered and paid for.

Yeah that's true. I know the old Porsche are safe, but I wasn't sure about the new 992 911 ones. That makes sense that they don't have a limit, hopefully they stay that way.

As for BMW, maybe. It's probably a tough case. You have to prove that you relied on that stat when you bought the car. And that you're impacted by it.
For example, you have 3 other cars and you bought the bmw specifically for a drag strip race. You only use the car to race. And you race for money every time in an official sanctioned licensed racing events on a regular basis.
Then it literally is costing you money and you're losing $$$ enough to make a serious lawsuit.

That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. We need a real financial harm specific to the launch.

[Andycam]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

As for BMW, maybe. It's probably a tough case. You have to prove that you relied on that stat when you bought the car. And that you're impacted by it.
For example, you have 3 other cars and you bought the bmw specifically for a drag strip race. You only use the car to race. And you race for money every time in an official sanctioned licensed racing events on a regular basis.
Then it literally is costing you money and you're losing $$$ enough to make a serious lawsuit.

That's an extreme example, but you get the idea. We need a real financial harm specific to the launch.

I get the idea. Still think it's a bit of a tough sell, that it would require financial impact. I mean, if I paint my room with a white paint, and then after 10 weeks it turns gray, it doesn't cause me a financial loss, but I would still argue compensation. Yes, I might "need" to repaint and that's a cost, but I might "need" to get a new car for launch control. Once more, taking it to the extremes.

Okay, I hear from my own argument that it's time to get to bed and not get worked up by BMW news Note to self - no legal discussions at 4 in the morning

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Andycam

I get the idea. Still think it's a bit of a tough sell, that it would require financial impact. I mean, if I paint my room with a white paint, and then after 10 weeks it turns gray, it doesn't cause me a financial loss, but I would still argue compensation. Yes, I might "need" to repaint and that's a cost, but I might "need" to get a new car for launch control. Once more, taking it to the extremes.

Okay, I hear from my own argument that it's time to get to bed and not get worked up by BMW news Note to self - no legal discussions at 4 in the morning

Haha, where are you that it's 4 am? It's not even midnight on EST in dc time.

Under Virginia law, in the USA, in your example; even if you were right and proved everything; the courts would only award you $50 total roughly equal to the cost of paint. A typical attorney would charge around $5,000 before collecting and typically another 40-50% post collection work. Thus, you're painted room law suit would actually cost you roughly $10k in legal fees plus court costs to win a total of $50.

In the states, we need to prove damages to recover compensation in tort type lawsuits. 4 key elements; duty, breach, harm and causation.

It's a tough sled to show you need a whole new race car to launch; if you're not racing.

[Andycam]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

Haha, where are you that it's 4 am? It's not even midnight on EST in dc time.

Under Virginia law, in the USA, in your example; even if you were right and proved everything; the courts would only award you $50 total roughly equal to the cost of paint. A typical attorney would charge around $5,000 before collecting and typically another 40-50% post collection work. Thus, you're painted room law suit would actually cost you roughly $10k in legal fees plus court costs to win a total of $50.

In the states, we need to prove damages to recover compensation in tort type lawsuits. 4 key elements; duty, breach, harm and causation.

It's a tough sled to show you need a whole new race car to launch; if you're not racing.

I'm in Sweden, land of vikings, elks and lingonberries.

Makes sense what you are saying. Consumer law here is a bit different, you don't necessarily need to argue your case in court and the law is pretty clear on if a thing does not live up to the performance/quality you could reasonably expect.

Ah well, next time my car goes to the shop I will at least try to get them to read the launch control number so I know what I am dealing with. My car had 590 miles on it when I bought it so if I'm unlucky a lot of those launches went away then