[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

The Green Insanity puts a value of ZERO on peoples wasted time charging yet trumpets the value of wasted time of people stuck in traffic.

Coming to your area soon! Hey! The state utilities only doing what the Green Insanity wants!

It may not lead to the popping of Champagne corks, but according to the most recent monthly data from the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, two other metropolitan areas have passed San Diego for having the highest average electricity prices in the country.

The price per kilowatt-hour in urban Hawaii came to 42.8 cents in January, followed by San Francisco at 41.2 cents. San Diego had the third-highest average price at 40.1 cents per kilowatt-hour.

Soon the EV owners will find out charging their EVs are not as little cost as they were told.

[eugenebmw]

Will BMW drop the EV production like Mercedes

Mercedes' new sales strategy is a bad omen for its luxury EVs

One dealer feels that despite Mercedes' efforts to build a quality EV, it is no use if people aren't willing to buy it.

"I don't think the space for Mercedes is there," a Mercedes dealer told AN. "Most of our high-end clients seeking performance-oriented cars will pick a gasoline engine over an electric motor."

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-v...its-luxury-evs

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Soon the EV owners will find out charging their EVs are not as little cost as they were told.

I think the reality of off home charging, the time and effort involved is why EV sales are resolving as Greenies and techies willing to tolerate a vastly inferior ownership experience to scratch their itch.

The realization that you are parking a fuel air bomb in your garage might some moms just a wee bit reluctant also.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

Soon the EV owners will find out charging their EVs are not as little cost as they were told.

It was a bait and switch. EV are sold as fuel-at-home vehicles. Most homeowners are conscious of thier utility bills and price/kWh. But the delivered price is over established infrastructure designed for low cost.

Unplug the pigtail from the garage wall and venture out to the real world and DCFC at a station with amenities to keep you safe, comfortable, and occupied for 40 minutes with an industrial power demark and the delivered kWh price jumps dramatically. It's just simple business economics.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It was a bait and switch. EV are sold as fuel-at-home vehicles.

EVer's have a surprise coming.
Managed Charging, Bidirectional Charging, and Electric Vehicles for Mobile Storage
A bidirectional EV can receive energy from an EVSE (charge) and provide energy to an external load (discharge), and is often paired with a similarly capable EVSE. Often bidirectional vehicles are employed to provide backup power to buildings or specific loads, sometimes as part of a microgrid, through 'vehicle to building' (V2B). Bidirectional vehicles can also power the grid through ‘vehicle to grid’ (V2G) to provide various grid services, although the programs to incentivize these grid services are not yet widely in place for vehicle applications. Sites can check with their serving utility to ascertain if their utility’s interconnection agreement(s) permit EVs to provide reverse power flow to the grid.
https://www.energy.gov/femp/managed-...mobile-storage

Got an EV as primary transportation you better be shopping for a home generator with a grid cut off switch. . Generally I don't take pleasure in the problems of others but I may make an exception on this one. Yes your Tesla could be mobile storage during the next power shortage. EV'ers still think all those charging stations simultaneously malfunctioned in Chicago when there was a grid power issue.

[Weather Man]

Pay no attention, just another cloud of death dispensing EV battery, move along!

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Pay no attention, just another cloud of death dispensing EV battery, move along!

My company sells LiPo batteries for RC Racing and the disposal is pretty easy but not environmentally sound. Just submerge the battery in a supersaturated saline solution for a couple weeks and it will neutralize the pack. Wrap in duck tape and dispose of in trash (this is the bad part for the environment but at least it won't spontaneous combust).

Interesting a lot of RC racing tracks are experiencing great success dousing LiPo battery fires in liquid dish washing detergent.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Pay no attention, just another cloud of death dispensing EV battery, move along!

[gilberjj]

Haha, this thread is a bunch of sky is falling, foil hat wearing doomers.
I’ve had an EV since 2016 (2013 Nissan Leaf).
It’s true, EVs don’t do EVERYTHING better than a ICE car (especially towing and road trips). However, if it’s a 2nd car, and it’s for around town or for your commute, they’re WAY WAY WAY better than ICE cars.
Electricity is $0.08/kWh in the PNW. My Leaf shockingly cheap to drive and own. It’s been perfectly reliable.
If you don’t want an EV, don’t get one. But this mutual EV-hate masturbation going on in this thread is total nonsense. Everyone I know who actually HAS an EV loves it and they don’t plan on going back.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by gilberjj

Haha, this thread is a bunch of sky is falling, foil hat wearing doomers.
I’ve had an EV since 2016 (2013 Nissan Leaf).
It’s true, EVs don’t do EVERYTHING better than a ICE car (especially towing and road trips). However, if it’s a 2nd car, and it’s for around town or for your commute, they’re WAY WAY WAY better than ICE cars.
Electricity is $0.08/kWh in the PNW. My Leaf shockingly cheap to drive and own. It’s been perfectly reliable.
If you don’t want an EV, don’t get one. But this mutual EV-hate masturbation going on in this thread is total nonsense. Everyone I know who actually HAS an EV loves it and they don’t plan on going back.

Same here on my EV owning friends. They love them. I am definitely not going back to ICE.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Pay no attention, just another cloud of death dispensing EV battery, move along!

Go to bed with that and you won't be getting up the next morning.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Same here on my EV owning friends. They love them. I am definitely not going back to ICE.

OOPS:
EV Owners Reveal Why They Returned to Gas-Powered Cars
1 in 5 early adopters are going back to petroleum.
January 29, 2024
The Journal found that of “early adopters” in California (defined as folks who bought an EV between 2012 and 2018), 20% of PHEV drivers chose a traditional gas car for their next purchase while 18% of full battery EV drivers went back to gas.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ev-owne...-powered-cars/

gilberjj is always welcome to debate the facts when he runs out of personal insults.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

OOPS:
EV Owners Reveal Why They Returned to Gas-Powered Cars
1 in 5 early adopters are going back to petroleum.
January 29, 2024
The Journal found that of “early adopters” in California (defined as folks who bought an EV between 2012 and 2018), 20% of PHEV drivers chose a traditional gas car for their next purchase while 18% of full battery EV drivers went back to gas.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ev-owne...-powered-cars/

gilberjj is always welcome to debate the facts when he runs out of personal insults.

Why is that an oops? I was referring to my friends. I am impressed that eighteen percent only returned to gas after experiencing an EV. That’s a remarkable number. Pretty cool.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by gilberjj

Haha, this thread is a bunch of sky is falling, foil hat wearing doomers.
I’ve had an EV since 2016 (2013 Nissan Leaf).
It’s true, EVs don’t do EVERYTHING better than a ICE car (especially towing and road trips). However, if it’s a 2nd car, and it’s for around town or for your commute, they’re WAY WAY WAY better than ICE cars.
Electricity is $0.08/kWh in the PNW. My Leaf shockingly cheap to drive and own. It’s been perfectly reliable.
If you don’t want an EV, don’t get one. But this mutual EV-hate masturbation going on in this thread is total nonsense. Everyone I know who actually HAS an EV loves it and they don’t plan on going back.

You'll be happy to know when the DOE actually had objectivity, they calculated the real-world mileage based on utility generated electricity and transmission loss: it got the same mileage as a Chevy Malibu, LOL.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I was referring to my friends. I am impressed that eighteen percent only returned to gas after experiencing an EV.

You'll be back, the government giveth and the government fuckth up. I wouldn't bet a plug nickle on California's power grid with the clown car of idiots you have managing it.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You'll be back, the government giveth and the government fuckth up. I wouldn't bet a plug nickle on California's power grid with the clown car of idiots you have managing it.

82 percent of EV owners come back for more. That pretty much seals the deal. I didn’t give a damn when the government made me pay gas guzzler taxes on my cars and I don’t give a damn on getting a car the government favors.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

My company sells LiPo batteries for RC Racing and the disposal is pretty easy but not environmentally sound. Just submerge the battery in a supersaturated saline solution for a couple weeks and it will neutralize the pack. Wrap in duck tape and dispose of in trash (this is the bad part for the environment but at least it won't spontaneous combust).

Interesting a lot of RC racing tracks are experiencing great success dousing LiPo battery fires in liquid dish washing detergent.

Sorry Car-Addicted, you won't get my business Although I am into RC car racing as well, but I only race with ICE RC cars. One tank of gas, my 32cc ICE RC car can run on the racing track for 45 mins non stop before filling again. One fill up will take about 3 mins and the fun start again. Same car power by LiPo battery, the fun time is limited to about 10 mins. Most people run their LiPo battery's cars are bringing a generator to charge their LiPo batteries. For me a 10L of jerry can and that is for the whole day.

[gilberjj]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

OOPS:
EV Owners Reveal Why They Returned to Gas-Powered Cars
1 in 5 early adopters are going back to petroleum.
January 29, 2024
The Journal found that of “early adopters” in California (defined as folks who bought an EV between 2012 and 2018), 20% of PHEV drivers chose a traditional gas car for their next purchase while 18% of full battery EV drivers went back to gas.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/ev-owne...-powered-cars/

gilberjj is always welcome to debate the facts when he runs out of personal insults.

Less than 1/5 returning to ICE cars.... I think you're proving my point?
Again, EVs don't do everything as well as ICE cars. So some people are going to need to switch back (as the article states). Imagine you're owning/renting a house and then move to an apartment/condo. EVs probably won't work as well.
82% repop for an EV seems like a landslide W...

Originally Posted by Weather Man

You'll be happy to know when the DOE actually had objectivity, they calculated the real-world mileage based on utility generated electricity and transmission loss: it got the same mileage as a Chevy Malibu, LOL.

Simple, let's do the math.
MY vehicles in Washington state.
Car #1: 2011 BMW x5 35d
Car #2: 2013 Nissan Leaf

Current diesel price in Washington state: $4.50/gal
Current electricity price in Washington state: $0.08/kWh

x5 35d gets about 24 mpg. Therefore, $4.50 gets me 24 miles.
Leaf gets about 3.5 miles/kWh. Therefore $4.50/0.08=56.25 kWh
56.25 kWh * 3.5 miles/kWh = 196.9 miles

196.9/24 = 8.2

That means that it's 8.2 TIMES more expensive to drive my x5 (not including maintenance or repairs).

It's not even close. For those of us with cheap electricity, this technology shift is as monumental as the change from steam to ICE.

If you want to put your head in the sand, be my guest, but to suggest that a Malibu is as efficient and cheap to operate as an EV is willful ignorance. Sure there are gas cars that get 60 mpg, but even they are significantly more expensive to operate.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by gilberjj

Less than 1/5 returning to ICE cars.... I think you're proving my point?
Again, EVs don't do everything as well as ICE cars. So some people are going to need to switch back (as the article states). Imagine you're owning/renting a house and then move to an apartment/condo. EVs probably won't work as well.
82% repop for an EV seems like a landslide W...



Simple, let's do the math.
MY vehicles in Washington state.
Car #1: 2011 BMW x5 35d
Car #2: 2013 Nissan Leaf

Current diesel price in Washington state: $4.50/gal
Current electricity price in Washington state: $0.08/kWh

x5 35d gets about 24 mpg. Therefore, $4.50 gets me 24 miles.
Leaf gets about 3.5 miles/kWh. Therefore $4.50/0.08=56.25 kWh
56.25 kWh * 3.5 miles/kWh = 196.9 miles

196.9/24 = 8.2

That means that it's 8.2 TIMES more expensive to drive my x5 (not including maintenance or repairs).

It's not even close. For those of us with cheap electricity, this technology shift is as monumental as the change from steam to ICE.

If you want to put your head in the sand, be my guest, but to suggest that a Malibu is as efficient and cheap to operate as an EV is willful ignorance. Sure there are gas cars that get 60 mpg, but even they are significantly more expensive to operate.

DOE didn't use your fantasy math. They used real world USA average utility efficiency and average transmission loss to the home and then loss from home entry to the EV. The EPA pretends that energy generated for EV use is at 100% efficiency and transmitted to your EV at 100% efficiency. The result is fantasy eMPG numbers. And if you think your kw rate will stay low, LOL, you have no idea what is headed your way. Look at CA and the EU to get a clue.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

But, you're driving a Leaf.

He has a dedicated commuter and an ICE for when the EV is a pain. He doesn't comprehend the financial status of most Americans or what the mandates will do to them.

[Weather Man]

6,843 pound carbon bomb for EV posers, what a joke.

So if taking the CT from 100% to close to zero towing a 6,000 lb pretty aero efficient Tesla on mostly town roads and some highway CT towing range is approximately 90-150 miles in very good/mild towing conditions using the whole battery.
But a real world use of 75% of the battery pack gives the CT towing a modest load about 68-113 miles of usable range. Based on a total of 4 range tests with the one above being the most comprehensive and complete.
With a bigger load and higher speeds could be looking at as little as 50 miles of towing range with current data available.

https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com...er-load.11420/

[M5Rick]

^^ Good point, we only hear of well off folk who can afford the luxury of an EV with a gas car to back it up if things get too much with the EV.