[JohnEnglish]

Originally Posted by RyanBMW

Is this a temporary thing or permanent? Is there a reason why for this? It really going to suck A$$ if it's really the truth, because it's one of the things on my to-do list ::

It's because most of their sales are the X SUV and crossovers built in South Carolina. That's why they're continuing the delivery program there but not in Europe. Unless buying habits change and everyone starts buying sedans again, I don't see ED coming back.

[buckybadger]

I would not do the ED but definitely visit the factory and museum.

I just can't wait another few months to receive the car in US after driving the car in Germany.

[Fugly M3]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I still love you!

From the vantage point of the myopic, this forum is separated into two groups: the haters and the apologists. For the reasonable people/members here it's not that simple. Just because one doesn't adapt a herd mentality doesn't make them an apologist. Any decision that upsets the herd is deemed a "mistake." The herd can't see beyond their own noses.

That's because herd animals don't have binocular vision...just like BMW's designers of late...

[///M TOWN]

.

[ted99]

Originally Posted by Ximian

We did Volvo's Overseas Delivery on my wife's XC90 in 2016 and it was awesome experience. 3000 miles in a month driving around Europe in your own car is the easiest way to connect with a car and to build brand loyalty. Every time we go to an Italian or French restaurant, we're reminded of the memories we've made in the vehicle during our trip and the car being with us there in Italy and France.

I was planning on doing European Delivery with the new M3, but that looks like it won't happen. While I may get another M3/M4 in the future, I certainly won't be paying the premium for a new one and that's how BMW loses with those of us interested in program. They don't make money on used car sales.

As for renting a BMW in Europe, if you go outside Germany to certain eastern European countries, BMWs/Audis/Mercedes rental cars aren't even allowed to go there so that's not an option. So all you're left with as options are old rentals with a ton of insurance coverage that cost more than a typical Ford F150's down payment. In cases like that, European Delivery would actually save money.

Just for the purpose of information to others, you are correct about the restriction on premium car rentals going to Eastern Europe. The reason for this is the high chance that the car will be stolen. I, for one, would not take a ED car I owned into one of those countries, either. As to crappy rentals, I use Sixt exclusively for my European rentals. In a trip last year originating in Berlin and extending into a week in Poland, I rented a brand new VW SUV for a very reasonable price.

[SilverScotty]

I was unable to do it but have experienced it in the past and it was great. I know a lot of members have done this as well. Hopefully it is not Really for good and just a sign of the current environment, although it doesn't read that way.

[NorCalAthlete]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Fine, let's just go ahead and compare Ferrari with Fiat then.

I mean, they DID use to have the exact same infotainment system...

Look up the Ferrari California and it had the same uConnect as they put in the Dodge Caravan lol.

[jkoral]

Sounds like it is for good and not related to current environment.

[W///]

Originally Posted by ///M4ster Yoda

I agree. I laugh at the 20 somethings with no license getting driven around by mommy. It's pathetic and the parents fault.

The difference between Porsche and BMW is that Porsche is using the revenue from SUV sales to continue to make amazing sports cars. Their prestige and heritage will live on. BMW could have gone this route but instead decided to be the German Toyota. They are throwing away all the prestige and heritage and it didn't have to go that way. BMW could have continued to make proper sporty cars along with their other offering.

Instead:
Killed 6MT
Killed DCT
AWD
Heavy Cars
Horrible Electric Steering
Fake engine noises
FWD BMWs

Basically they are now Audi and Audi's are better looking with better interiors.

These are dumb moves that will hurt the brand in the future.

Can I throw some counter points to this? Please keep in mind that my end game is to own a 997.1 GT3. I've always loved the brand just as much as BMW, although it is quite a step up for me and something I cannot afford yet.

Everyone makes it seem like Porsche walks on water, but when I look at it, I don't think that's always the case.

Some of the decisions/thoughts on things I'm not a giant fan of:
- Putting 4 cylinders into the 718. I dare someone to defend this when they're now throwing the 6 cylinders into the GTS
- 992 have become big for a 911 IMO, and not necessarily a fan of how they look
- People gave BMW crap for the X6 when it launched and calling them sellouts, but literally everyone has copied them, including Porsche. Not my kind of cars but it is what it is
- Not saying Porsche is synonymous with cheap, but the Turbo starts at $200k. I don't know about you guys but there are other cars I'd consider at that price. I built a 718 Spyder and it came out to $110k with not too many options.
- Related to the above, but $200k doesn't even get you something like Comfort Access. But people want to complain about BMW being cheap with options?

Once again, I'd like to say that I love they're still building NA engines with MT, and have the outmost respect for those guys. But they're not perfect either.

[BigKutta]

That kinda sucks. For me it was good option that was available, but i never took advantage of it. We go to Europe almost every year, but planning a trip around a car delivery was just logistically challenging for us. I think I'll be fine going to Spartanburg for a PDS at some point in the future. More beneficial for me at least.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by W///

Can I throw some counter points to this? Please keep in mind that my end game is to own a 997.1 GT3. I've always loved the brand just as much as BMW, although it is quite a step up for me and something I cannot afford yet.

Everyone makes it seem like Porsche walks on water, but when I look at it, I don't think that's always the case.

Some of the decisions/thoughts on things I'm not a giant fan of:
- Putting 4 cylinders into the 718. I dare someone to defend this when they're now throwing the 6 cylinders into the GTS
- 992 have become big for a 911 IMO, and not necessarily a fan of how they look
- People gave BMW crap for the X6 when it launched and calling them sellouts, but literally everyone has copied them, including Porsche. Not my kind of cars but it is what it is
- Not saying Porsche is synonymous with cheap, but the Turbo starts at $200k. I don't know about you guys but there are other cars I'd consider at that price. I built a 718 Spyder and it came out to $110k with not too many options.
- Related to the above, but $200k doesn't even get you something like Comfort Access. But people want to complain about BMW being cheap with options?

Once again, I'd like to say that I love they're still building NA engines with MT, and have the outmost respect for those guys. But they're not perfect either.

Reason! I love reason. Well stated.


My end goal is a GT3 as well, but like you.....and despite making good money, it's just not comfortably feasible for me yet. In any case, Porsche will nickel and dime you for every single option. Before you know it, you're writing a check large enough to purchase nearly two BMW's.

[Germanauto]

Does any good news come out of BMW anymore? Ever since the soft squishy F10 came out in 2010 it's been one kick to the nuts after another. They are doing everything in their power to kick us enthusiasts out of their circle.

This is so saddening. Aside from the M2 the BMW brand is dead to me.

[goku7]

Sad this is ending. I was planning to get a 3 series later just so I can tour with my family around Europe comfortably in our new car. For the silver lining I'm glad I got to do it with m2c. One of the best experiences in my life. I'm guessing other manufacturers will also follow suit like Porsche and Volvo.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by goku7

Sad this is ending. I was planning to get a 3 series later just so I can tour with my family around Europe comfortably in our new car. For the silver lining I'm glad I got to do it with m2c. One of the best experiences in my life. I'm guessing other manufacturers will also follow suit like Porsche and Volvo.

....and if/when the others follow suit, BMW won't look so much like the bad guy anymore (...even though Audi already killed their ED program).

[xxyion]

Thats sad. As someone who just recently got into the BMW world its something that really piqued my interest when i was looking for my M2C. I was hoping that in a few years when its more financially viable for me to take a 2week trip just to pick up a car, then i'd be able to do this for an M3 or something with 4 doors. However it looks like i wont get this option anymore. Oh well. For those of you who did do a Euro delivery, hats off to you and hope it was as awesome as it sounds.

[adc]

Originally Posted by JCZ5

The question is can you find the Porsche models you outlined with the equivalent BMW, at BMW's price point new? That is no. The value equation always comes into play or else we can compare a Bentayga to a X5.

Cayenne at a similar price to an X5, yes. Cayman GTS at the same price as an M2CS, around $80-90k, yes. (GT4 might be a stretch).

Now preowned is where it gets interesting if your primary focus is on the brand and for sheer driving focus. But as we all know, new BMWs or even any brand are not focused on pure driving overall. They need to consider comfort, tech, usability, which all compromises the vehicle in some people's eyes.

For the family cars, I can do without BMW and don't even have to go to a Porsche these days, there are plenty of reasonable choices (sporty, comfortable, roomy, and *cheaper*).

For my fun car, the allure of the BMW M cars has always been reasonable reliability, practicality, low running costs (for tracking) and fun to drive. But again once you step into the $80k+ range, choice abounds.

I'll seriously look into a Cayman GTS as my next fun car, since I will no longer require 4 door practicality. An almost-GT4 for the same price as a loaded M4 or M2CS? Manual transmission? And I think I can find a dealer willing to do Euro Delivery. Sign me up...

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by adc

Cayenne at a similar price to an X5, yes. Cayman GTS at the same price as an M2CS, around $80-90k, yes. (GT4 might be a stretch).

For the family cars, I can do without BMW and don't even have to go to a Porsche these days, there are plenty of reasonable choices (sporty, comfortable, roomy, and *cheaper*).

For my fun car, the allure of the BMW M cars has always been reasonable reliability, practicality, low running costs (for tracking) and fun to drive. But again once you step into the $80k+ range, choice abounds.

I'll seriously look into a Cayman GTS as my next fun car, since I will no longer require 4 door practicality. An almost-GT4 for the same price as a loaded M4 or M2CS? Manual transmission? And I think I can find a dealer willing to do Euro Delivery. Sign me up...

What is the price of that GTS or that Cayenne with similar options? I know P-Car financing isn't as friendly as BMW's.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Thescout13

I feel like a lot of people would prefer this to the current dealership experience - which is a complete waste of a day/multiple hours, when all you should have to do is go in sign papers and leave.

What's about all this "service" CA's are getting all bent out of shape over that they offer? Servicing aka rapping the customer at multiple points during the buying experience so everyone at the dealership can pad their wallet, including the F&I shenanigans? I feel that we're just a number when we walk out the door, as the next contact will in 30 months prior to lease-end waiting for our next order.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Hoody007

You’re entirely right. I’m 23, studying to become a doctor. I still remember fondly my dad’s 330Cic, and I love my current E90 335i. These cars are what BMW used to be about. If I wanted a FWD car with electric steering, I’d buy an Audi, and I’d get a better interior and better service from my dealer. To people my age, the LCI 7 series is downright comical, what with its oversized grill, and the supposedly sporty sedans which BMW built their reputation on through the mid 00s are now bloated and lifeless.

I fell in love with the E46 & E90 because I could actually feel the road. Imagine that! Being able to have a telepathic connection to the road! Try that in a modern BMW...

The modern chassis (and I have had the chance to drive the newer G20 on the track) are floppy. The steering, even on the “M Sport” models, absolutely, unequivocally, sucks. The build quality is nice, sure, but not better than Mercedes or Audi.

The only reason owning a BMW was ever worth it was because of the way they drove. Once they got rid of that, it doesn’t make any sense to buy one, IMHO - Mercedes has brought back the straight 6, and at least there I don’t expect a semblance of road feel.

And a FWD BMW? Shouldn’t even exist. The level of contempt I have for those cars knows no bounds.

In about 10 yrs, when I’ve finished residency and am ready to move on from my E90, I will not be going to a BMW dealer - I’ll probably end up buying some sort of Porsche, or maybe an Audi.

Agreed with all your sentiments. I'm completing my residency in a couple years, the only vehicle that will get me into a BMW dealership is the M2. Wish I was born 10 years sooner so I could enjoy BMW in its heydey.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by buckybadger

I would not do the ED but definitely visit the factory and museum.

I just can't wait another few months to receive the car in US after driving the car in Germany.

As I said before, BMW NA slowly ripped apart ED over the years, 1st the 7% to 5% reduction, refusing to fix ED damage, and changing up the insurance that prohibited the Ring.

Easier just to get a Sixt rental car, as the shipping delay was painful.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Ibiza

As I said before, BMW NA slowly ripped apart ED over the years, 1st the 7% to 5% reduction, refusing to fix ED damage, and changing up the insurance that prohibited the Ring.

Easier just to get a Sixt rental car, as the shipping delay was painful.

I wonder if there were customer related issues that exacerbated certain circumstances, resulting in those subtle changes that ultimately led to the program's demise.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I wonder if there were customer related issues that exacerbated certain circumstances, resulting in those subtle changes that ultimately led to the program's demise.

Full of issues, such as customers flying in to MUC, going to the Welt, then paying the Welt drop off fee for shipping and heading back on a fight just to save the 7%.

BMW NA should sell future ED cars at US market prices with incentives, then charge the customer the ED fee such as the European markets due. If leased, customer is responsible for lease payments during shipping. This would remove the scammers gaming the system from ED.

Issue would be US customs as I believe BMW NA imports the ED car as used. History of ED programs dates back to the German government sponsoring tourism with the program. People learned how to game the system, wreaked cars during ED knowing the VPC would repair to factory new standards.