[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

They won't and or can't
It'll overheat before the hot laps can be established.
That's why there aren't any lap times
People who by these cars a pretentious IMHO if they want it for environmental friendlyness
They boast about zero emissions but yet fail to realize it took massive amounts of fossil fuels , more so than a ICE car to manufacture
And unless your electricity comes strictly from solar or wind it has a carbon foot print
If you're in Ca, electricity more than likely comes coal , and that is far worst than me burning Dino oil in my 20 yr old 35 mpg acura integra

The amount of misinformation/hate in the post is ridiculous.

We have Teslas that visit our local track (Calabogie) so often, they have actually installed a charging station at the track for them. They do very, very well on track.

Luckily here in Ontario, we don't use cheap, shitty fossil fuels for our power, so, an electric car is actually cleaner. Just because California has it wrong, does not mean the rest of the world does.

[Bols]

I got to drive in one (fully specced it's 132k euros jesus ridiculous christ) and even though it's hella fast I was actually underwhelmed.. That and the jerky way it accelerates/brakes made people nauseous lol. Definitely not worth the price but a cool car none the less.. Imho a well specced F3x costs less than half and is a much better buy all around. Looks better, the interior is out of the Tesla's league by a mile, the sound is nicer, the drive is smoother, cooler options, no hideous giant touchscreen.. I could go on and on

TL;DR: You will have way more fun in the F80!

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

They won't and or can't
It'll overheat before the hot laps can be established.
That's why there aren't any lap times
People who by these cars a pretentious IMHO if they want it for environmental friendlyness
They boast about zero emissions but yet fail to realize it took massive amounts of fossil fuels , more so than a ICE car to manufacture
And unless your electricity comes strictly from solar or wind it has a carbon foot print
If you're in Ca, electricity more than likely comes coal , and that is far worst than me burning Dino oil in my 20 yr old 35 mpg acura integra

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

The amount of misinformation/hate in the post is ridiculous.

We have Teslas that visit our local track (Calabogie) so often, they have actually installed a charging station at the track for them. They do very, very well on track.

Luckily here in Ontario, we don't use cheap, shitty fossil fuels for our power, so, an electric car is actually cleaner. Just because California has it wrong, does not mean the rest of the world does.

Coal power makes up .51% of electricity produced in California and 7.82% of all energy used in California.

Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, biomass and nuclear all produce more energy in California than does coal.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electric...tem_power.html

[ixse]

Lol why the hell people talking about track capabilities of tesla.. The car was made for confort cruiser that can shame most supercars 0-60. It does what it does best. There was vid where for about 1/8mile, it was quicker than ferarri f12.. Thats serious traction w serious acceleration.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by ixse

Lol why the hell people talking about track capabilities of tesla.. The car was made for confort cruiser that can shame most supercars 0-60. It does what it does best. There was vid where for about 1/8mile, it was quicker than ferarri f12.. Thats serious traction w serious acceleration.

Not to mention how many M3 drivers actually track their cars? Maybe 1%? Useless argument.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

We have Teslas that visit our local track (Calabogie) so often, they have actually installed a charging station at the track for them. They do very, very well on track.

I have not seen a single video of one on the nordschleife lapping under 10 minutes.... (that's about the time you can get with a van...)

The batteries don't have the capabilities to even complete one(!) lap in a competative style.

[ixse]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I have not seen a single video of one on the nordschleife lapping under 10 minutes.... (that's about the time you can get with a van...)

The batteries don't have the capabilities to even complete one(!) lap in a competative style.

What a ignorant statement.. P85d has more than 240mi range and even under constant hard acceleration it gives more than 50mi. Last time i checked, there isnt a track in the world thats bigger than 50mi. Also there isnt any large sedan that can do 3.2 sec to 60.
Only reason why you dont see them in nordschleife, is because people buy tesla for daily commuting. Just because its not driven on a track, doesnt mean its a bad car. Comments like yours give bmw drivers bad name

[MightyMouseTech]

Here is Roadster lapping at Calabogie.

Update from the vid though, there is now a charging station at the track.

[zer0cool]

I don't understand why so many people here try to say the car sucks on a track. Most people will never drive on a track so performance on a track is meaningless for almost all cars and owners... I have never and don't personally know anyone who has driven on a track.

Also another person asked about 40-120... like what does that do? On every public road in the USA, it's illegal to drive above 80 (usual speed limits are 70, but there's a 10mph allowance), so why does performance above that matter to any car intended for everyday usage?

If you actually drive on the track regularly, then Tesla is not your car, and you are probably among the <0.1% of drivers who actually drive on a track regularly.

If you drive above 90 regularly on public road, well I hope you get arrested since you are a danger to both yourself and others.

[SunnyD]

Originally Posted by zer0cool

If you actually drive on the track regularly, then Tesla is not your car, and you are probably among the <0.1% of drivers who actually drive on a track regularly.

Agree, and even if you were a track rat, you probably wouldn't be driving something as compromising as an M3.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ixse

What a ignorant statement.. P85d has more than 240mi range and even under constant hard acceleration it gives more than 50mi. Last time i checked, there isnt a track in the world thats bigger than 50mi. Also there isnt any large sedan that can do 3.2 sec to 60.
Only reason why you dont see them in nordschleife, is because people buy tesla for daily commuting. Just because its not driven on a track, doesnt mean its a bad car. Comments like yours give bmw drivers bad name

Comments like yours give bmw drivers an uneducated name.

There is a video of a professional racing driver giving the p85 (non d) a go, and the batteries or power circuit is (suggested to be) overloaded on the nordschleife as power dropped dramatically and it is overtaken by almost everybody.
Do some research before you make yourself ridiculous.

Also you see all kinds of cars, busses, vans etc on the nordschleife, but I think you've never been there...

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

Here is Roadster lapping at Calabogie.

You have any video footage of the model S on calabogie or another track to see the stamina? (so no drag strip)
the roadster is very light, so that puts less strain on the batteries I imagine, which is supposedly the problem with the model S according to that team that ran the S on the nordschleife (or maybe it has a different kind/type of battery)
Toyota made an electric race car a few years back that lapped the nordschleife pretty fast, but that was (obviously) also very lightweight build.

[pikkagtr]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Coal power makes up .51% of electricity produced in California and 7.82% of all energy used in California.

Solar, wind, geothermal, hydro, biomass and nuclear all produce more energy in California than does coal.

http://energyalmanac.ca.gov/electric...tem_power.html

Funny how you convienently left out the fact that natural gas is 60% in CA.
My mistake , I thought coal was higher than 7%.
Nevertheless, you are still leaving a higher carbon footprint by plugging in your electric vehicle than those snobs in the bay claiming zero emmisions BS

[Red Bread]

It was a P60 on the 'Ring, not that it matters at all.

[BwoodBMW]

I just don't understand why as a car enthusiast you wouldn't be excited about the Tesla... I get it, its not a track car
I get it, the top speed isn't a hellcat like 200+
I get it, half the owners are pretentious ass wipes who may not be accomplishing anything at all environmentally...

but who cares! this is mind blowing technology in a car, how is that not a good thing? This one is a big soft cruiser but the tech could make some smaller tighter sprung rocketship daily drivers in the future that smoke F80s without any smoke. E-cars are obviously not for everybody, but neither are M cars.

[RM7]

It's amazing technology. The best part is that it doesn't care what the power plant burns or how it makes its energy. Hydroelectric, fission, fusion, wind, geothermal, hydroelectric, natural gas, etc, it doesn't care. Even if the power has to be generated at the power plant and transmitted through lines to the charging station, it still ends up far more efficient than a gas/diesel engine.

Another fact, super-efficient gas turbine engines are becoming the power plant of choice as far as power stations, due to their hyper efficiency (broke the 50% barrier a few years back, many are in excess of 60%) and the technology that has made them relatively clean.

While there may not be full infrastructure in place for it, there's at least a good amount in place for transmitting electricity to support charging cars. Compared to hydrogen, which is extremely wasteful to produce (lots of energy) and where there is no infrastructure, holding tanks, refineries, trucks, ships, etc.

Now look at how much energy is wasted just trucking gas all over the globe for cars, trucks running everywhere, ships full of fuel, storing it in tanks everywhere, it's incredibly wasteful, and then there's the energy it takes just to create all those conveyances and storage facilities.

We'll have gas for a while and there will be a steady transition through hybrids to full electric, but the tesla IS amazing and ground breaking. The first car with enough energy density to make the car practical for most everyday driving and many trips. Supercharger stations are showing up and the cars are living up to most of the hype.

And if you irrationally hate electric cars, just think about the fact that hybrids are taking over in super and hypercar ranks due to their ability to recover energy to slingshot out of a corner much faster than a gas engine is capable of. Expect to see more of this as battery density continues to increase.

This is here, now, and it works.

[jttBimmer]

Reminder, the OP (me) has an M3 on order and has a July allocation.

I got to drive my buddy's P85D tonight because he needed to borrow my truck. He got the white with nice CF exterior pieces and the large black wheels.

My impressions...

a) It is a large car but IMO the exterior is subtle but beautifully designed.
b) With the P85D the acceleration is absolutely bonkers. It really is absurd. I'd kill the battery just hammering it from 0-40 all the time
c) It is weird to put the car in reverse, take your foot off the break and it doesn't move
d) The tech inside is pretty amazing
e) The interior is most disappointing and kind of awkwardly designed. My experience with BMW interiors they are much, much nicer

I really like it. I will be happier with my M3 I think for much less than the P85D (around 130k) but I don't discount this thing. It is a very well done piece of automotive tech.

[David70]

I think it is interesting how many 1/4 mile races that have been posted showing how great the Tesla is but once you bring up some other form of a race, like a road course the answer is always "that's not what is was meant to do". Far easier to win your battles when you are the one deciding on where to fight and if you are going to put yourself up against a high performance car in the 1/4 mile you should also be prepared to go to the other events.

Wasn't this always the old fight when comparing American "muscle" to exotics? American muscle would race at the 1/4 mile then never want to discuss other, more exciting forms of a racing against the same car.

[Fundguy1]

Hate them. Yes you get quick off the line. Then after its slow. Gotta find a plug. They're environmental nightmares too. You use just as much carbon fuels generating the electrical. Then the batteries, over 1000 of them, are a toxic mess making and disposing of them. These are produced in lithium and nickel plants in China and Canada and have some of the most toxic waste biproducts ever created. Makes love canal look pristine but it's out of site out of mind.

[zer0cool]

Originally Posted by jttBimmer

Reminder, the OP (me) has an M3 on order and has a July allocation.

I got to drive my buddy's P85D tonight because he needed to borrow my truck. He got the white with nice CF exterior pieces and the large black wheels.

My impressions...

a) It is a large car but IMO the exterior is subtle but beautifully designed.
b) With the P85D the acceleration is absolutely bonkers. It really is absurd. I'd kill the battery just hammering it from 0-40 all the time
c) It is weird to put the car in reverse, take your foot off the break and it doesn't move
d) The tech inside is pretty amazing
e) The interior is most disappointing and kind of awkwardly designed. My experience with BMW interiors they are much, much nicer

I really like it. I will be happier with my M3 I think for much less than the P85D (around 130k) but I don't discount this thing. It is a very well done piece of automotive tech.

I have a Model S on order (already produced and in transit). Decided on one after test driving it (regular 85) for the first time, with great reservation before hand, and right after test driving a M3.

I disagree with your (e). I just transferred my 535i with multi contour nappa leather seats and I feel the Model S interior is more modern, tech savvy, and better in general (ya there are many hard plastic parts, but that's true on BMW as well). Also the new Model S seats are better looking and significantly more comfortable than any BMW other than seats on a 7. I would say the Model S interior is better than any BMW sedan that's less than 6 series.

We ll still have a gasoline car, and my daily commute is 50 miles round trip. Even say there's a multi shopping weekend day, I just don't foresee driving more than 100 miles in town on any given day... so I doubt there will be any range issues even if I drive the car hard. Also I am in no way an environmentalist so I don't really care which type of car is more or less polluting.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by David70

but once you bring up some other form of a race, like a road course the answer is always "that's not what is was meant to do".

They (teslamotors) only want to emphasize the strongholds of the electric motor, not the shortcomings of their batteries.
But the challenge is not in the electric motor. Thàt performance was also available 50 years ago. A simpe tram has a more powerful motor than a tesla model S and also fits in the boot of any car, so that is absolutely no technological achievement. And certainly not an a achievement from Tesla.
So where tesla must make a difference is with the batteries, and as far as performance driving on a track, they don't hold up in the model S imho.

It is very strange that a car like the p85d that is globally marketed so heavily as a performance car ("we wanted to match the performance of the mcLaren F1"), it can only do a good 0-60mph sprint, but cannot do anything on the track.
As if 0-60mph is the thing that defines performance
Why not take boot space in the equation too, I bet it rivals the mclaren F1 also on that performance....

Can you imagine a brand like bmw, developping a new m3 or m5, and then in the world media compare it to the mcLaren F1 (or any other supercar), without posting some nordschleife times or so?
Thàt would be completely ridiculous and unthinkable, but that is wat Tesla is doing.
Nobody in the performance car business cares about 0-60 times, they all look at track times. Because you want the damn thing to handle. (so your comparison to 60's musclecars is pretty good)

[zer0cool]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

They (teslamotors) only want to emphasize the strongholds of the electric motor, not the shortcomings of their batteries.
But the challenge is not in the electric motor. Thàt performance was also available 50 years ago. A simpe tram has a more powerful motor than a tesla model S and also fits in the boot of any car, so that is absolutely no technological achievement. And certainly not an a achievement from Tesla.
So where tesla must make a difference is with the batteries, and as far as performance driving on a track, they don't hold up in the model S imho.

It is very strange that a car like the p85d that is globally marketed so heavily as a performance car ("we wanted to match the performance of the mcLaren F1"), it can only do a good 0-60mph sprint, but cannot do anything on the track.
As if 0-60mph is the thing that defines performance
Why not take boot space in the equation too, I bet it rivals the mclaren F1 also on that performance....

Can you imagine a brand like bmw, developping a new m3 or m5, and then in the world media compare it to the mcLaren F1 (or any other supercar), without posting some nordschleife times or so?
Thàt would be completely ridiculous and unthinkable, but that is wat Tesla is doing.
Nobody in the performance car business cares about 0-60 times, they all look at track times. Because you want the damn thing to handle. (so your comparison to 60's musclecars is pretty good)

And that confuses me greatly... I personally think most car reviews are meaningless as they drive on the track and do figure 8 etc... If I had bought a M3, I would never drive it on a track or slide and burn its tires out. I think that's the case with overwhelming majority of potential performance car owners. Therefore, most of those numbers simply is marketing and for psychological consumption since most owners would never experience anything close to those numbers (even if they tried they wouldn't be able to drive as well as the testers) physically ever.

What I care about is how a car drives between 0-80, and how it handles at speeds that you can actually use on a road... I don't care if a car can tackle a tight corner at 70mph, slide onto the shoulder and come out all composed because I will never do that on a road and I hope NO ONE ever tries to do that ever on a public road.

[GuidoK]

So what's your point?
That you're a slow driver and performance cars are not for you?