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      07-14-2020, 09:09 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
This was expected, they renamed car from M6 to M8, slapped another 30-40t, but buyers didn't go for that cheap trick.
BMW is making bad decisions last 4 years.
This crap with grill is just cherry on the top.
Pretty much this. They have model dilution (making too many models in general) on top of making ugly cars now.
You nailed it. Cars are ugly... front grill of the new 4 series is ridiculous and will kill the sales on it.
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      07-14-2020, 09:35 AM   #112
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BMW just told us that there won't be a 2021 M8 Coupe or Convertible for the US.
That's ok, cause a Ford Mustang looks exactly like the coupe and convertible, and much cheaper
On a forum chock full of ridiculous comments, this one takes the cake.

Might wanna make an urgent appointment with an eye doctor.
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      07-14-2020, 09:43 AM   #113
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      07-14-2020, 09:43 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by farishat View Post
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BMW just told us that there won't be a 2021 M8 Coupe or Convertible for the US.
That's ok, cause a Ford Mustang looks exactly like the coupe and convertible, and much cheaper
On a forum chock full of ridiculous comments, this one takes the cake.

Might wanna make an urgent appointment with an eye doctor.
Not really, every time I see one mustang is the first thing that comes to mind.
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      07-14-2020, 10:00 AM   #115
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Per my dealer... here are the 2020s remaining in inventory...

142 M8 Comp Conv
329 M8 Comp Cpe
618 M8 Conf
312 M8 Cpe

as he said "we don't need any 2021s at this time"
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      07-14-2020, 10:38 AM   #116
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Any conjecture as to what this means for demand and depreciation?
So if they are not selling chances dealers have to discount them to move them out of the lot. 1+1=2
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      07-14-2020, 10:39 AM   #117
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Absolutely correct, you summarize it very well!
There is a ceratin niche of price for some vehicles and the prestige of the brand plays a huge role in here.
BMW decided to cheap out and use CLAR FWD platforms, and use very cheap materials in cars.
The new front seats share the same black rear back cover, when they use to have the same color with the leather choice, the headliner is a pantyhose material that is used everywhere and in all, including high end series, they do not offer different lighter headlines in certain models anymore, the sunshade is a saggy cloth, the plastics are terrible, the seats are not full leather anymore but half textile on the bottom area, etc.

They also gave up any halo car and throw an electric i8 which was a failure to begin with as the wrong engine was in it and was very spartan in terms of interior and amenities.
The M badge is slapped in every little car that shouldn’t wear that badge except it is engineered by M.
They actually affected tremendously the M reputation. The real M owners are discredited as the stupid BMW greediness is milking the whatever is left of this letter that used to be a powerful statement.

Bottom line, they pretty much cheapened the whole brand. They wanted volume, they have volume. They wanted China, and they get China reputation.
The shareholders cared about their pockets NOW, not for the future and the BMW brand is actually on a slope.

Never thought that Audi will reach a certain level, yet they did, and exceeding now. They have everything including a halo car to reiterate the status quo of the brand.

BMW now is just a volume maker with a questionable quality in the lower models. At least if they could really make -for example- an X1 like the previous one, with a RWD biased true xDrive, good materials and a sedan like chassis. But so far, all we get is confusing nomenclature with FWD chassis and questionable quality.
Just cheaper cars for more money...

So, ya, BMW value perception is not whee it supposed to be....
I agree with you 100%. At the end of the day, that's why people buy these cars. There was a period of time that the cars on this end of the spectrum held the crown when it came to tech, but that's just not the case anymore. Brands like Honda, Toyota, Hyundai have stepped up their game and are offering all of the tech that you can find in a BMW, Mercedes, or Audi so something has to set you apart. My personal opinion is that if a brand has a high end halo car, that technology is going to trickle down to the rest of the lineup.

Mercedes has the AMG Project One and Audi has the upcoming Audi E-Tron.
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      07-14-2020, 10:43 AM   #118
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Any conjecture as to what this means for demand and depreciation?
So if they are not selling chances dealers have to discount them to move them out of the lot. 1+1=2
There were some decent deals leading up to this news, I don't think things will change right away. But they're not moving, so there will have to be some changes in the MF to get rid of them.
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      07-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #119
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Closed the ED Program. A horrible 4 Series design. A failed 8 series... they better get their shit together.
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      07-14-2020, 01:08 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city1991 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHunk View Post
This was expected, they renamed car from M6 to M8, slapped another 30-40t, but buyers didn't go for that cheap trick.
BMW is making bad decisions last 4 years.
This crap with grill is just cherry on the top.
Agreed! The new 4 series could've been a heck of a car with a regular grill. That atrocious grill is going to kill it before it even is produced.


Audi is building some nice cars. Quality interior and not over saturating the market with a 100 different models.
Huh?!? It was BMW trying to keep up with Audi and MB that led to the saturation. Audi has the A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, A8, S this and S that, S-Line this and S-Line that, etc. BMW responded with the 1 that became the 2, the 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, etc., adding ///M to everything and diluting the ///M brand. Don't you remember all of the criticism on the BMW forums about BMW trying too hard to be like Audi and saturating the model line?!....or did you forget?!?! You had one camp calling ///M owners elitists who only cared about perception just because they voiced discontent with BMW making everything an M in an attempt to keep up with Audi/MB and to sell more cars. Another camp claimed adding M to everything didn't dilute the ///M brand, but most of us knew better.
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      07-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #121
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      07-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #122
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M stands for Meaningless now. 😂🤦
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      07-14-2020, 01:26 PM   #123
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Don't think the 8 Series failed as a car but BMW did a poor job on the with the launch, dealer inventory, marketing and to some extend pricing.

The reality is that compared to SUV's & cross-overs, virtually all sedans, coupes and convertibles have become niche vehicles. This is not unique to BMW.
The usual bread and butter models like the BMW 3 & 5 series are outsold by a large margin by X3 & X5 models. Same with Mercedes C & E-Class are well below the GLC & GLE models.

Yet BMW decided to create 18 different 8 series models (with Diesels) and 6 M8 models alone and then loaded up every dealer in the country with launch inventory plus more to come.

Zero exclusivity, no marketing support, smaller dealerships desperate to move cars off the lot that they have no experience selling.

This is not how you create brand..
If BMW sold 1700 units in Q2 during COVID, good for them. Even if at a 15-20% discount.

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      07-14-2020, 01:36 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by doug_999 View Post
Per my dealer... here are the 2020s remaining in inventory...

142 M8 Comp Conv
329 M8 Comp Cpe
618 M8 Conf
312 M8 Cpe

as he said "we don't need any 2021s at this time"
I'm not surprised as my dealer has tons on the lot as well. Not too many people want a large overpriced large boat of a coupe or convertible in a SUV world.

I can only imagine the depreciation on these things after a few years (50% or more?). The M8 should never have been priced so high in 911 territory.
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      07-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #125
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Per my dealer... here are the 2020s remaining in inventory...

142 M8 Comp Conv
329 M8 Comp Cpe
618 M8 Conf
312 M8 Cpe

as he said "we don't need any 2021s at this time"
I'm not surprised as my dealer has tons on the lot as well. Not too many people want a large overpriced large boat of a coupe or convertible in a SUV world.

I can only imagine the depreciation on these things after a few years (50% or more?). The M8 should never have been priced so high in 911 territory.
I agree with your latter point. If any car I'm considering starts to venture into GT3 territory, I might as well go for the P-Car. I concede that the M8 and the GT3, for example, are two very different cars, but there's no way that I would pay high end P-Car money for a BMW.
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      07-14-2020, 01:44 PM   #126
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Not surprised. There's no reason to buy the M8 other than a status symbol. The interior is pretty much the same as an M5 (and even a 3 series for that matter).

I still can't understand why they essentially use the same interior on a $50k 3 series as a $150k M8, save a few carbon bits here and there? If I had the $ I'd def be looking at something way more exotic
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      07-14-2020, 02:58 PM   #127
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I can't argue who a car may or may not be for, who really knows but the argument is how desirable is an 8 Series and how does it relate to sales. I thought sales for the 8 Series was a lot lower but at 1700 in Q2, you're putting it up there with the 911. I don't care what brand, once you cross that $100k price tag, that car is largely unattainable to the majority and brands have realistic expectations. At 1700 units moved in Q2, you can't tell me that's a fail. BMW isn't special to think it can outsell every car in this price bracket and they know this. If Mercedes, Porsche, Audi, or l any brand that have any car in this price bracket and numbers are all in the same range, how are we going to say sales is the main factor for stopping production?
If the 8 series was desirable, they wouldn't be sitting on dealer lots and we'd see a 2021 model year. I think the point that I'm making where I'm trying to point out 1,700 units moved in Q2 isn't enough to be sustainable for BMW to keep production going for the coupe/convertible. Your opinion of 1700 unites moved in Q2 being 'good' is just that though, your opinion. BMW NEEDS to sell thousands and thousands of these cars for it to make sense for them. I don't need to tell you the car failed because BMW just did it for me. They stopped production on a car that's two years old. I personally think the AMG GT and Audi R8 around what the manufacturers wanted and don't really have an issue with where they stand. The mistake that BMW made was it stepped into the ring with the brands that have a significant presence in the $100,000 car territory. Cars like the AMG GT-S that have a presence when they pull up. I honestly don't see a reason to get a bloated 8 series on steroids when options like a AMG GT-S exist or an Audi R8 or a even a used 911 GT3.

https://www.motor1.com/news/405697/b...-difficulties/

https://www.autoblog.com/2020/03/26/...es-slow-sales/

https://www.jdpower.com/cars/shoppin...ng-enthusiasts

https://carbuzz.com/news/bmw-dealers...h-the-8-series

Porsche makes $17,000 for every car they sell. Ferrari makes about $70,000. They don't need to sell as many as for it to make sense for them. Mercedes is also fine with selling 4,000 AMG GT's a year because it keeps that brands prestige up and gives it's clients something to yearn for. I'm also pretty sure cars like the A and B class fund projects like that. Why is Mercedes able to invest and make a Project One Hyper car but we haven't seen anything worth a hooey from BMW since....forever? Mercedes is only going to sell a handful of them(I actually think they're all already sold) but it draws attention to the brand and make current Mercedes owners see what the brand is capable of so they come back again. The 8 series also has depreciates harder than a free falling rock thrown down the Grand Canyon.

P.S. It doesn't help that SUV's are taking over. I think 48% of BMW USA sales last year were SUV's.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/08/17/prof...s-per-car.html
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      07-14-2020, 03:04 PM   #128
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well, for the MSRP of these things, think of what else you can buy from the likes of A.Martin, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Much different league at that price point!!
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      07-14-2020, 03:09 PM   #129
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TL;DR: BMW isn't doing anything that really sets them apart in the price bracket. They're using the same formula at a price point that expects more. If I pay $130,000 - my car better be special and not look exactly like an M5. I can only imagine how someone in an M8 would feel.
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      07-14-2020, 03:11 PM   #130
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well, for the MSRP of these things, think of what else you can buy from the likes of A.Martin, Bentley, Porsche, etc. Much different league at that price point!!
Yep. And those brands don't need a crazy amount of sales for them to be happy.
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      07-14-2020, 03:54 PM   #131
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Closed the ED Program. A horrible 4 Series design. A failed 8 series... they better get their shit together.
I dumped my BMW stock. They are too slow and reactionary now. Their EV efforts will fail because they are not made on a dedicated platform. This is clearly the future and they are not taking it seriously. Their other missteps like the 8 series do not give me confidence.
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      07-14-2020, 04:51 PM   #132
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Yep. And those brands don't need a crazy amount of sales for them to be happy.
You've written so much sh*t in this thread, hard trying to look like a f*cking luxury automotive expert, unfortunately you're just pathetic always comparing different class models and totally near the subject 😂
Get a life man, and let the real experts to do the math for what is good and what is wrong with a model
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