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BMW M8 Forum and 8 Series Forum BMW M8 and 8-Series General Discussion Official: No M8 Coupe or Convertible for 2021 model year

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      07-13-2020, 08:48 PM   #67
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History just repeats itself. BMW shouldn't have ruined the 6 series lineup with the G32 GT looking POS. The F06 GC was probably the best looking sedan BMW has ever produced. What a sleek and clean looking GC touring sedan. BMW figured it could milk it and upcharge for essentially the same car design the next gen by renaming it the 8 series haha. I guess that didn't work out.
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      07-13-2020, 08:51 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by antzcrashing View Post
So bizarre that they cut models like this. Guess due to poor sales. I would think convert would be pretty popular
I have only seen M8 comp convertible like twice?
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      07-13-2020, 08:52 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
The 8-series is having a hard time for many reasons, but mainly no one wants coupes, convertibles or sedans anymore, and at the $100k price point priorities and values change significantly and the 8 starts to shine less. The days of the convertible in general seem to be numbered honestly.

I found this article pretty interesting as they asked dealers why they are having a hard time selling and what prospective customers think when they look at the 8er.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/03/27/w...ell-in-the-us/
I believe that is wrong to conclude that "no one wants coupe".
I would like one and know many guys that would.
The problem is that the lay-out of the vehicle and interior ergonomics are terrible. The lack of leg space in the rear seats are the problem!
Honda Accord has pretty much the same length and very few can touch the bottom of the leg area in the front when the seat is pushed max in the rear, and there is still space in the back. At a normal setting (and I am pretty tall) in the rear there is a normal space for an adult to sit comfortably on a long trip.

They engineer it wrong and that is the issue.
And, the Gran Coupe ended up too long for the same reason.
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      07-13-2020, 08:54 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teutonic View Post
I believe that is wrong to conclude that "no one wants coupe".
I would like one and know many guys that would.
The problem is that the lay-out of the vehicle and interior ergonomics are terrible. The lack of leg space in the rear seats are the problem!
Honda Accord has pretty much the same length and very few can touch the bottom of the leg area in the front when the seat is max rear, and there is still space in the back. At a normal setting (and I am pretty tall) in the rear there is a normal space for an adult to sit comfortably on a long trip.

They engineer it wrong and that is the issue.
And, the Gran Coupe ended up too long for the same reason.
When I say no one wants a coupe, I just mean market trends have shifted, hence the SUV revolution. The number of people who want coupes these days are becoming slimmer and slimmer. You definitely are correct about this cars packaging, it is very tight for such a large car. In my opinion the best version of the 8er is the vert, although top has to be down otherwise it isn't pretty, but truthfully I would hands down take an S-Coupe or 911 over any form of 8er.
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      07-13-2020, 09:06 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
The 8-series is having a hard time for many reasons, but mainly no one wants coupes, convertibles or sedans anymore, and at the $100k price point priorities and values change significantly and the 8 starts to shine less. The days of the convertible in general seem to be numbered honestly.

I found this article pretty interesting as they asked dealers why they are having a hard time selling and what prospective customers think when they look at the 8er.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/03/27/w...ell-in-the-us/
I think people are wanting green cars in that segment and tesla is getting those sales with model S. But yes car to suv transition is a factor too
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      07-13-2020, 09:07 PM   #72
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My feeling is that the coupe and convertible share enough parts and mechanicals with the Gran Coupe that as long as the latter is produced, it's going to be a while before the former become obsolete. So far all we've heard about is US production, and the coupe and convertible may still be manufactured for other markets. In some parts of the country, the remaining vehicles could actually see higher demand as supply becomes more constrained. One of the dealers I was negotiating with said that they would be less likely to substantially discount an M8 if they knew that more vehicles weren't being built. Personally, I'm hoping that 2020 is the last and only model year for the M8 coupe and convertible. They're beautiful cars and attract a lot of attention. I bought mine and have no regrets. Rather than settling for whatever is left, find one that checks all of the boxes and make it yours.
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      07-13-2020, 09:31 PM   #73
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This is why:

https://carsalesbase.com/us-bmw-8-series/

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-u...ures-by-model/

Also, a decked out M850i is $125,000. I can get a 2017 R8 V10 Plus with 1,800 miles on it for the same price. I know which one I'd rather have.
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      07-13-2020, 10:06 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
This is why:

https://carsalesbase.com/us-bmw-8-series/

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2020-u...ures-by-model/

Also, a decked out M850i is $125,000. I can get a 2017 R8 V10 Plus with 1,800 miles on it for the same price. I know which one I'd rather have.
We on the forums can complain about this and that but I'm looking at those numbers for the 8er and I don't think it's that bad relative to the type and price of the car. Alternatively, for all the hype and talk about the R8 being the ideal everyday supercar, those sales numbers are abysmal for a car that every "entry-level" performance/supercar is compared to before getting to the Ferrari's and Lamborghini's of the world. At those take rates, the R8 is just a hypothetical talking point - "If I had the money I would get..." of "why would you get that when you could get a R8?".

I'm not saying the 8er is better than the R8 or vice versa but I'm just trying to put the numbers for a car that supposedly nobody wants into context.

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      07-13-2020, 10:08 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibiza View Post
Only mater of time before the X8 is cancelled. Don't see how a X8 that will be priced higher than a X7B will sell. Maybe Eastern Europe, Russia and China are the markets for the X8, but is it worth all the R&D costs for a niche product. I highly doubt it.
Actually I expect they will continue with the X8. The high dollar SUV market is a lot bigger than the coupe market, and I don't expect the X8 to start higher than the XB7, given that the current rumors says that the X8 will start with a M50e model.

The X8M will probably be more expensive than the XB7, though it is rumored to have a S63 + hybrid system with 700+hp to make up for it.

In terms of market positioning, BMW would want an SUV more expensive than the current X7 lineup, but not as expensive as the Cullinan. It will be going up against the Cayenne Turbo, Bentley Bentayga, Aston Martin DBX, etc...
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      07-13-2020, 10:46 PM   #76
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8-series has been all over the place

BMW make up your mind
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      07-13-2020, 11:17 PM   #77
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That's unfortunate because the car has potential. Maybe just reduce the size and call it, M4!

I agree with other members though. At that price point you're opening the door to much more competition that their lower models don't have; especially when factoring in incentives and lease deals.
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      07-13-2020, 11:20 PM   #78
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i guess i just personally dont understand why an m8 is 30-40k more than an m5. the m6 was what 5-10k more expensive than the m5 at the time? bmw can say its not an m6 all day long but is there really any major difference between the m5 and the m8? same drivetrain/interior/materials/etc -- maybe with some small tweaks but certainly not enough to justify the price difference.

it seems like the 8 series was an exercise in price it higher and see if it creates exclusivity which doesnt work if theres nothing particularly special about the car compared to the rest of the lineup.
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      07-14-2020, 12:04 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uniqueMR View Post
8-series has been all over the place

BMW make up your mind
BMW killed off the 6er to make more money

This is unfortunate egg in their face

X8 will sell regardless
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      07-14-2020, 12:05 AM   #80
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glad I skipped this and went with a Porsche GT car. These cars will be $60k in 2 years. Sad.
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      07-14-2020, 12:11 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by werdn View Post
The M5 is selling like hot cakes where I live, my street (a dead end street) has 3 new m5's in the past 8 months (not including many others I see driving around). No e63s or RS6/7 seen anywhere yet.
The M5 is an iconic badge with a storied history. If it goes down, it will take the entire M division down with it.
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      07-14-2020, 12:12 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoManyBlueCars View Post
I think you're seeing the first casualty of BMW slicing the pie to thin.
Indeed.

And I hope they learn the lesson, long term not just short term.


It’s interesting, and not one bit surprising, that some people find the 8 series coupe unattractive, in contrast to the previous 6 series. Same sentiments have been shared on the forums, and these arguments aren’t without merit. So what does BMW do? Put out the new 4 series with its massively polarizing looks. I’m watching that one with a lot of interest...
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      07-14-2020, 12:13 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
We on the forums can complain about this and that but I'm looking at those numbers for the 8er and I don't think it's that bad relative to the type and price of the car. Alternatively, for all the hype and talk about the R8 being the ideal everyday supercar, those sales numbers are abysmal for a car that every "entry-level" performance/supercar is compared to before getting to the Ferrari's and Lamborghini's of the world. At those take rates, the R8 is just a hypothetical talking point - "If I had the money I would get..." of "why would you get that when you could get a R8?".

I'm not saying the 8er is better than the R8 or vice versa but I'm just trying to put the numbers for a car that supposedly nobody wants into context.
If those numbers weren't bad then BMW wouldn't have pulled the 2021 model year from the market. Keep in mind BMW banks on selling thousands and thousands of these to make a return on investment. Obviously stopping production of the car for an entire model year or more is going to be less costly for them than to keep pumping out cars and have them just sit on lots. The real problem is nobody is going to pay $130,000 for a BMW when they can waltz into Porsche. I bet you Porsche isn't having any problems selling $130,000 911's or Panamera's or Macan's or Cayenne's.

I am a firm believer that every manufacturer has a pricing limit in the eyes of many consumers and BMW has overstepped theirs. You know, A BMW isn't worth *insert dollar amount here*. BMW kind of did it to themselves though by leaving the high end market and wanting to focus more on FWD 1's and 2's and X this and X that. Both Mercedes and Audi are still in the high end game with the Mercedes AMG GT and the R8.

Also, a brand new Audi R8 is significantly more expensive than a brand new 8 series. That price bracket of cars is for a very few select group of people. The 8 series is for the management team and the R8 is for the CEO kind of thing. Now, on the used market it becomes an entirely different story. That management team can probably buy a used R8 but that doesn't count for Audi sales. There are a lot more people that are part of the management team then there are people that are CEO's.
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      07-14-2020, 12:47 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
The M5 is an iconic badge with a storied history. If it goes down, it will take the entire M division down with it.
BMW should be very careful b/c at this point they've diluted the M brand already way too much by putting an M on everything, including those stupid SAVs. X5M was cool but then X6M, X4M, X3M, X7M, etc. Then you got M240, M340, M540, M740, M850, etc. They also chickened out of building a i8M which would have made it a true halo car. What a missed opportunity! The i8M would have been a great segue into the future of electric ///M. Instead we got nothing. Nice job Harald Kruger. You fucked the whole brand in 4 years time.

Since the G8X cars are too controversial already just based on styling, if they get poor reviews on launch for any reason, then I have a feeling it will take the whole M division down. Might as well go beg Albert Biermann to come back and rebuild it with 3 or 4 true M models.
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      07-14-2020, 01:14 AM   #85
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Seen a few m8 convertibles lease with a 25% off msrp discount. Honestly, if not for that, I have no idea why anyone would pick an m8 over a m850 (unless money was no object)
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      07-14-2020, 01:23 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Automotive Enthusiast View Post
The real problem is nobody is going to pay $130,000 for a BMW when they can waltz into Porsche. I bet you Porsche isn't having any problems selling $130,000 911's or Panamera's or Macan's or Cayenne's.
I am a firm believer that every manufacturer has a pricing limit in the eyes of many consumers and BMW has overstepped theirs. You know, A BMW isn't worth *insert dollar amount here*. BMW kind of did it to themselves though by leaving the high end market and wanting to focus more on FWD 1's and 2's and X this and X that. Both Mercedes and Audi are still in the high end game with the Mercedes AMG GT and the R8.
Absolutely correct, you summarize it very well!
There is a ceratin niche of price for some vehicles and the prestige of the brand plays a huge role in here.
BMW decided to cheap out and use CLAR FWD platforms, and use very cheap materials in cars.
The new front seats share the same black rear back cover, when they use to have the same color with the leather choice, the headliner is a pantyhose material that is used everywhere and in all, including high end series, they do not offer different lighter headlines in certain models anymore, the sunshade is a saggy cloth, the plastics are terrible, the seats are not full leather anymore but half textile on the bottom area, etc.

They also gave up any halo car and throw an electric i8 which was a failure to begin with as the wrong engine was in it and was very spartan in terms of interior and amenities.
The M badge is slapped in every little car that shouldn’t wear that badge except it is engineered by M.
They actually affected tremendously the M reputation. The real M owners are discredited as the stupid BMW greediness is milking the whatever is left of this letter that used to be a powerful statement.

Bottom line, they pretty much cheapened the whole brand. They wanted volume, they have volume. They wanted China, and they get China reputation.
The shareholders cared about their pockets NOW, not for the future and the BMW brand is actually on a slope.

Never thought that Audi will reach a certain level, yet they did, and exceeding now. They have everything including a halo car to reiterate the status quo of the brand.

BMW now is just a volume maker with a questionable quality in the lower models. At least if they could really make -for example- an X1 like the previous one, with a RWD biased true xDrive, good materials and a sedan like chassis. But so far, all we get is confusing nomenclature with FWD chassis and questionable quality.
Just cheaper cars for more money...

So, ya, BMW value perception is not whee it supposed to be....
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      07-14-2020, 02:07 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
When version 1 of the order guide came out, I found it somewhat odd that the Coupe and convertible was not listed and I posted as such in the other thread. Now it's official. Should jive with what was earlier reported shortly after the 8er release, Coupe and Convertible models could be discontinued leaving only the Gran Coupe. Seems like it' going to happen.
A very big big car. At that price I prefer a Panamera, better in most ways.
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      07-14-2020, 02:34 AM   #88
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This was expected, they renamed car from M6 to M8, slapped another 30-40t, but buyers didn't go for that cheap trick.
BMW is making bad decisions last 4 years.
This crap with grill is just cherry on the top.
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