11-26-2018, 03:54 PM | #1 |
Colonel
2901
Rep 2,771
Posts
Drives: 2020 M4 ZCP / 2023 X3 M40i
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Northern VA
|
Beginning of the end for sedans in the US market?
There was news this morning that GM is closing 5 plants and removing 6 sedans from it's lineup. Ford also announced previously that it's removing all sedans from it's lineup next year. We all know SUV sales are on fire and sedans are slumping. Compact SUVs are the hottest segment in the US now for mainstream and luxury manufactures. The X3 is now BMW's biggest seller in the US.
Is this the beginning of the end of the sedan in the US? Will sedans eventually go the way of manual transmissions? What does everyone think? |
11-26-2018, 03:58 PM | #2 |
Lieutenant
495
Rep 471
Posts
Drives: F80 AW 6MT
Join Date: May 2009
Location: San Diego
|
I don’t think it’s a reflection of the sedan. I think it’s a reflection of the American branded sedan.
__________________
Gabe - F80 AW Cloth 6MT - HRE 520 - OEM GTS Hood - CS lip/spoiler/diffuser - Status Gruppe SRS Coilovers - Nose Lift - Full Suspension - OEM Alcantara & Carbon interior - BM3 - IKON |
Appreciate
9
Dackelone10593.50 BMWILUVU809.00 tuco44645.00 Germanauto9714.50 cfm56d7b5893.50 jqsmooth160.00 CTinline-six6873.00 rainfall161.50 Kyngofpop676.00 |
11-26-2018, 03:59 PM | #3 |
Brigadier General
5150
Rep 3,241
Posts |
Just great. Bigger vehicles with more potential to cause higher degrees of injury and property damage to a large group of US drivers who got their license by basically breathing and showing up at the DMV.
Nice. |
11-26-2018, 04:55 PM | #5 |
Brigadier General
4930
Rep 3,810
Posts |
I would agree - in '08 the problems weren't really fixed to the degree that they needed to be. The problem was simply papered over, money moved around, more financial trickery, etc. The auto makers seemingly started to turn it around by making half way acceptable vehicles, then gas prices started to decline, which boosted their profitable truck and SUV sales. That still wasn't enough - so they opened up the floodgates to subprime borrowers to keep the party going. I would bet this is the root cause of the problem. There's no doubt that SUVs and trucks are hot sellers in the US, and sedans are less popular, but not to the degree that the domestic automakers are claiming.
Last edited by allinon72; 11-26-2018 at 05:01 PM.. |
Appreciate
1
Kyngofpop676.00 |
11-26-2018, 05:01 PM | #6 |
Lieutenant
245
Rep 466
Posts |
Ford and GM just does not have a car capable of competing with the Accord or Camry.
|
Appreciate
3
|
11-26-2018, 05:56 PM | #7 |
In The Rain
8177
Rep 6,261
Posts
Drives: '24 GT4RS, '24 Macan GTS
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: SoCal
|
I been saying it to myself that Ford or GM simply doesn't try anymore. They have stopped trying years and years ago.
This isn't any sort of a surprise to anyone who follow cars. While BMW always emphasize the importance of the 3 series out loud, you have Ford and GM just... there... They have given up a long time ago.
__________________
'24 Porsche Cayman GT4RS Arctic Grey "Alice"
'24 Porsche Macan GTS Dolomite Silver "Gina" |
Appreciate
1
Kyngofpop676.00 |
11-26-2018, 06:41 PM | #8 |
Major General
10172
Rep 8,631
Posts |
A couple of things-
1) Both GM and Ford have continued to make shitty sedans no matter how they spin it. 2) They focused on crossovers and SUV's and Trucks as the profit margin was higher. 3) The core problem of a good car was never fixed... they were able to get away with the above due to low interest rates for years as well as low gas prices. 4) The moment the party with loans ended, the deep profit margins stopped The American car industry will be in trouble for many years ahead unless they completely restructure and learn how to truly compete. A world class corvette and our obsession with trucks doesn't fix the core problem with the company. I can see all American auto manufacturers having problems for many years. |
Appreciate
1
Kyngofpop676.00 |
11-26-2018, 08:24 PM | #9 |
Major General
9715
Rep 6,087
Posts |
I grew up in the metro Detroit area with my folks working for the Big 3, notably GM.
These companies are historically incompetent and short-sighted. They build mediocre sedans with poor residuals and sub-par reliability then wonder why nobody buys them. The passenger car market is shrinking, sure, but it is still a very viable market for the Japanese and Germans. Detroit will just never get its shyt together. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-26-2018, 08:43 PM | #10 |
Brigadier General
1781
Rep 4,456
Posts |
My next vehicle will be some sort of an SUV. Easier to get in and out, I can see better and packing thing into and taking them out is much easier as well.
I just can’t see myself in a sedan again that is my DD. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-26-2018, 09:41 PM | #12 |
Colonel
645
Rep 2,294
Posts |
I'm staying with the sedan/coupe for a DD, at least for the foreseeable future.
The SUV (in it's many forms) is inferior for me because: - a sedan is more comfortable, - a sedan has greater handling capability, especially in emergency situations, - a sedan provides better fuel economy, - I don't need huge cargo room, nor do I tow anything, - I prefer the driving position of a sedan. - I don't go anywhere off road (not that many SUVs go off road). - IMO, a sedan/coupe is more fun to drive than a SUV. I owned an X3 in 2011 for a while, but both my wife and i were happy to get back to a car. Regardless, I don't think the US domestic makers make many good sedans, and they want to be out of them to improve their bottom line. IMO, the US domestic makers could build a better sedan IF they wanted to. Just my 2c
__________________
2018 340i xDrive M Perf Edtn Sunset Orange
Previous BMWs - 19 others since 1971. |
11-26-2018, 09:49 PM | #13 |
Major General
7340
Rep 7,301
Posts |
GM and Ford have made many mistakes, but the writing is on the wall for sedans. BMW, MB, and Audi sales numbers already show the shift. The US and China want SUVs and crossovers.
For the company's profitability and survival, they need to punt on this i4 and divert the resources into getting an electric X3 and X1 out there ASAP. I hate SUVs but now that everyone and their dog drives one, it is a pain in the ass to not be able to see what's in front of anything on the road. Last edited by chris719; 11-26-2018 at 09:57 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
11-26-2018, 10:21 PM | #14 | |
Brigadier General
2893
Rep 3,472
Posts |
Quote:
Other than that, chicks love SUVs, they want their family to have an SUV. Men love trucks for the status symbol and they are decked out these days like luxury cars inside. This is where the profit is. I don't think it has much to do with not making a quality car, if there was a market for it I think it would be supplied, but people aren't buying sedans, they are buying SUVs and trucks.
__________________
Current: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, 2023 Colorado ZR2. Former: BMW 428i Gran Coupe.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-26-2018, 10:33 PM | #15 | |
Major General
3076
Rep 5,577
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-26-2018, 10:54 PM | #16 |
Major
1893
Rep 1,338
Posts |
I doubt sedan’s will die off. If anything, their shape will evolve. We already seeing that with gran coupe designs.
|
Appreciate
1
overlook637244.50 |
11-27-2018, 05:41 AM | #17 |
Colonel
4980
Rep 2,269
Posts |
the sedan is certainly dying a slow death in the US market by US companies; but to be honest it's also suffering a slow death in the european market from euro companies.
Let's face it, the benchmark European sedan the 3-series has not been relevant since the E90 era and since then its status has been on a downward trajectory. The new one looks to further that downward spiral. Companies like BMW and Audi don't depend on sedan sales anymore; the driving force are the lower priced SUVs. The general public, who are in general devoid of an actual opinion most of the time, just buy whatever they are sold and told....
__________________
don't read this. too late...
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-27-2018, 07:39 AM | #18 |
Run Deep
15127
Rep 4,123
Posts
Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 Alfa Romeo Giu ... [0.00]
2022 Ford Bronco 2d ... [0.00] 2016 Alfa Romeo 4C [8.50] 2019 BMW i8 Roadster [0.00] |
I don't think the sedan is dying anywhere close to the extent that people are portraying it to be. I think the domestics just don't have a way to compete.
Here are the sales figures for 2017: 2017 Camry: 387,081 2017 Accord: 322,655 2017 Escape: 308,296 2017 Explorer: 271,131 The Camry and Accord are outselling the two most popular domestic SUV's in America. You don't think that Ford would want another vehicle that would sell over a quarter million units a year? Of course they would and if they built a car that was as popular as the Camry and Accord, they could have just that. You can review trends of annual sales at the link below. You will see that passenger car sales are not in the slump that many portray them to be. http://carsalesbase.com/category/car-sales-us/
__________________
Don't sweat petty things....or pet sweaty things.
|
Appreciate
3
|
11-27-2018, 07:40 AM | #19 |
Lieutenant Colonel
11472
Rep 1,797
Posts
Drives: E86 3.0si
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Susquehanna Valley
iTrader: (0)
Garage List '55 Ford F100 [0.00]
'08 Z4 3.0SI [8.50] '66 Triumph TR4A [0.00] '85 Corvette [0.00] '64 Corvette [0.00] '68 Triumph GT6 [0.00] '19 VW Golf "R ... [0.00] |
The US top 10.
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-27-2018, 07:49 AM | #20 |
Run Deep
15127
Rep 4,123
Posts
Drives: Back and Forth To Work
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: The Mountains
iTrader: (0)
Garage List 2018 Alfa Romeo Giu ... [0.00]
2022 Ford Bronco 2d ... [0.00] 2016 Alfa Romeo 4C [8.50] 2019 BMW i8 Roadster [0.00] |
Sorry - not sure what you are trying to convey with this graph? Can you please expound on this?
__________________
Don't sweat petty things....or pet sweaty things.
|
Appreciate
0
|
11-27-2018, 08:30 AM | #22 |
Colonel
1006
Rep 2,243
Posts
Drives: 2007 328i / 2014 M235i
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Ontario Canada
|
I agree with above, its no so much the death of the sedan its the mediocre US sedans that don't appeal to people.
My next car will be a wagon, all the benefits of a sedan with the practicality of a hatch for hauling things. Sadly there aren't many options. The Volvo V60 is looking very appealing, I like the 2015 (first gens). |
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|