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      09-13-2020, 01:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Not really, its not terrible, the car drives well and is incredibly composed, but by Porsche standards the car is pretty numb and doesn't differentiate itself from the competition other than the PDK, and above all else its heavy and not completely agile. I'd still say the AMG GT4D is class leader in driving dynamics particularly because of its more engaging handling, the AMG V8, and transmission setup that just feels more raw and agile while driving, however some may find that a downside in this class. Apparently the Panamera refresh will be more driver focused.
So the new Panamera will blow the BMW away?
Maybe. We will have to wait and see for reviews and test drives.
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      09-13-2020, 02:59 PM   #46
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In a straight line, probably not as the car is a fair bit heavier. However, it does have 4 wheel steering, which could give it the edge on track times.
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      09-13-2020, 03:15 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
In a straight line, probably not as the car is a fair bit heavier. However, it does have 4 wheel steering, which could give it the edge on track times.
I thought all M8 variants didn't receive the 4WS from the non-M models?
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      09-13-2020, 03:21 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
In a straight line, probably not as the car is a fair bit heavier. However, it does have 4 wheel steering, which could give it the edge on track times.
I thought all M8 variants didn't receive the 4WS from the non-M models?
I was referring to the Panamera.
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      09-13-2020, 03:22 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
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Originally Posted by Neptune7 View Post
In a straight line, probably not as the car is a fair bit heavier. However, it does have 4 wheel steering, which could give it the edge on track times.
I thought all M8 variants didn't receive the 4WS from the non-M models?
I was referring to the Panamera.
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
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      09-13-2020, 05:14 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Not really, its not terrible, the car drives well and is incredibly composed, but by Porsche standards the car is pretty numb and doesn't differentiate itself from the competition other than the PDK, and above all else its heavy and not completely agile. I'd still say the AMG GT4D is class leader in driving dynamics particularly because of its more engaging handling, the AMG V8, and transmission setup that just feels more raw and agile while driving, however some may find that a downside in this class. Apparently the Panamera refresh will be more driver focused.
In my short list down select journey that ended with my 2020 M850i coupe I test drove a Panamera GTS and found it not as fun to drive as the M850i. I also was iffy on the overall look of the car as well but it was more appealing than the earlier Panamera models.
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      09-13-2020, 07:25 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jstein55 View Post
Not really, its not terrible, the car drives well and is incredibly composed, but by Porsche standards the car is pretty numb and doesn't differentiate itself from the competition other than the PDK, and above all else its heavy and not completely agile. I'd still say the AMG GT4D is class leader in driving dynamics particularly because of its more engaging handling, the AMG V8, and transmission setup that just feels more raw and agile while driving, however some may find that a downside in this class. Apparently the Panamera refresh will be more driver focused.
In my short list down select journey that ended with my 2020 M850i coupe I test drove a Panamera GTS and found it not as fun to drive as the M850i. I also was iffy on the overall look of the car as well but it was more appealing than the earlier Panamera models.
Agree on pre 2021 pre LCI Panamera. Didn't like how it drove. The new one flew around the ring, has more power, significantly improved its steering and handling and seems to have righted many of the Un Porsche like issues of the model year 2017-2020. Time will tell it's also a lot more money than the M850 and M8
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      09-13-2020, 08:31 PM   #52
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Agree on pre 2021 pre LCI Panamera. Didn't like how it drove. The new one flew around the ring, has more power, significantly improved its steering and handling and seems to have righted many of the Un Porsche like issues of the model year 2017-2020. Time will tell it's also a lot more money than the M850 and M8
Thanks and good to know that the 2021s are righting the wrongs of the past from a driving dynamics POV. Truth be told I've been sitting on the sidelines and betting on the Panamera given I cannot fit into a 911 which like for many has been a dream car. Cost wise there is no question they are more expensive than the M850i or M8 as the 2020 GTS I test drove was $40k plus (if memory serves) over the final build of my M850i.

When my lease is up on the M850i I'll be facing my last significant car purchase as it will be timed with a decision to move from semi-retired to full retirement. Unless some unforeseen circumstance precludes me from continuing with my current gig (very unlikely), I may just decide to keep working for another couple of years to cover the purchase of my last hurrah before I'm relegated to Honda Accords in my retirement life. Thus, I'm still betting on the Panamera and a few others within the $250K realm to be that last hurrah.
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      09-13-2020, 09:01 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Thanks and good to know that the 2021s are righting the wrongs of the past from a driving dynamics POV. Truth be told I've been sitting on the sidelines and betting on the Panamera given I cannot fit into a 911 which like for many has been a dream car. Cost wise there is no question they are more expensive than the M850i or M8 as the 2020 GTS I test drove was $40k plus (if memory serves) over the final build of my M850i.

When my lease is up on the M850i I'll be facing my last significant car purchase as it will be timed with a decision to move from semi-retired to full retirement. Unless some unforeseen circumstance precludes me from continuing with my current gig (very unlikely), I may just decide to keep working for another couple of years to cover the purchase of my last hurrah before I'm relegated to Honda Accords in my retirement life. Thus, I'm still betting on the Panamera and a few others within the $250K realm to be that last hurrah.
I have told my Financial Advisor that my retirement plan needs to include a discretionary pool of funds for my BMW leases.
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      09-13-2020, 09:16 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
Agree on pre 2021 pre LCI Panamera. Didn't like how it drove. The new one flew around the ring, has more power, significantly improved its steering and handling and seems to have righted many of the Un Porsche like issues of the model year 2017-2020. Time will tell it's also a lot more money than the M850 and M8
Thanks and good to know that the 2021s are righting the wrongs of the past from a driving dynamics POV. Truth be told I've been sitting on the sidelines and betting on the Panamera given I cannot fit into a 911 which like for many has been a dream car. Cost wise there is no question they are more expensive than the M850i or M8 as the 2020 GTS I test drove was $40k plus (if memory serves) over the final build of my M850i.

When my lease is up on the M850i I'll be facing my last significant car purchase as it will be timed with a decision to move from semi-retired to full retirement. Unless some unforeseen circumstance precludes me from continuing with my current gig (very unlikely), I may just decide to keep working for another couple of years to cover the purchase of my last hurrah before I'm relegated to Honda Accords in my retirement life. Thus, I'm still betting on the Panamera and a few others within the $250K realm to be that last hurrah.
You fit in M850 but not 911? I'm 6'4" the 8 coupe/convertible doesn't feel like has anymore room than my 911. Of course we all "fit" differently into cars and I'm sure you know if you fit or not.. lol.....

I have the 18 way sport seats. I believe the 14 way are slightly bigger

Hope the new pano works. The architecture underpins the Bentley CGT and Spur whist significantly Improved those cars driving dynamics vs the old Audi / front drive based bentleys

Of course those cars don't need to be a Porsche so hopefully they got it right :-)

Love the full retirement, congrats!!
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      09-13-2020, 10:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by wesleyan92 View Post
I have told my Financial Advisor that my retirement plan needs to include a discretionary pool of funds for my BMW leases.
LOL as that is mostly a conversation with myself given I manage everything outside of the 401Ks from my prior F100 life which are now under Vanguard's Flagship services.

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You fit in M850 but not 911? I'm 6'4" the 8 coupe/convertible doesn't feel like has anymore room than my 911. Of course we all "fit" differently into cars and I'm sure you know if you fit or not.. lol.....

I have the 18 way sport seats. I believe the 14 way are slightly bigger

Hope the new pano works. The architecture underpins the Bentley CGT and Spur whist significantly Improved those cars driving dynamics vs the old Audi / front drive based bentleys

Of course those cars don't need to be a Porsche so hopefully they got it right :-)

Love the full retirement, congrats!!
I'm 6'6" but given my genes I have shorter legs vs upper body torso in the overall height quotient. This leads to both upper back issues (an entire issue within itself) along with the challenge of car cabin headliner space. I've tried it all in a 911 (last time was a 992), i.e., drive the seat forward, raise the seat, drive it 100% backward and lower it all the way. Even in a 992 my head is literally scraping the headliner.

That said the beauty of the M850i is it is the most comfortable car I've owned to date from both a height and leg room perspective. A lot of people call the coupe's cabin claustrophobic to some degree but for me it is the exact opposite as it fits me like a glove. Some of the criticism is due to the interior color choice, e.g., all black. However, my custom build which includes the Alcantara headliner is not claustrophobic given the full leather Fiona Red/Black overall lightens up the interior vs the cave like feel of all black.
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      09-13-2020, 11:20 PM   #56
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Now imagine the X8

Looking at this beautiful shaped car and then imagine how an X8 would look like.... I would indeed be interested in a cool X8 version based on the 8 GC as well as wondering what Alpina would do with such a car...
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      09-14-2020, 12:06 PM   #57
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While the m8gc is slightly growing on me, I will say I did not get the same feeling I got when the m6gc came to market. I instantly knew "that was my next car." With the m8gc, I more less feel like "I'd consider it in a year or two" but I will definitely consider other options at the time as well..
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      09-16-2020, 08:32 PM   #58
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I have more context here than most and agree with Matt on numerous points. Take UK road suitability--it just doesn't work in England. Our village roads were built in some cases, 400+ years ago and can't be expanded because of these annoying little things called houses. The car's too wide and too long if you live in the UK countryside or want to frequent it.

The way BMW sells the 'options' in the UK is the *THE* definition of nickle-and-diming. Here in the States, it's a few packages and you're done. So yet again, I agree with Matt but that's a 'market' issue, not a product.

On the suspension: I thought it was stiff, too, when I first drove the Comp. Then I let 7psi of air out of my (new Michelin) tires (down to 33 psi at ambient 50f) and it made all the difference. The car wanted 40psi square--WTF... concrete!

On the M850 being the great all-rounder... I'd probably agree and I only say probably because I don't have enough wheel-time with one. However, I genuinely use the 'M' functionality and wouldn't give up the driving pleasure I derive from it (both road and track) and its configurability given the choice.

For someone new to the brand, I suspect the M850 would check all the boxes without any argument.
I take 2 psi out of my 540i xDrive tires to get better ride quality. No effect on tire wear.

Do you notice increased tire wear on the shoulders taking 7 psi out?

You can tell it's a heavy car w/ 40 psi all around factory spec.

Can you give me details on your track experience w/ the car.
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      09-21-2020, 07:58 PM   #59
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I take 2 psi out of my 540i xDrive tires to get better ride quality. No effect on tire wear.

Do you notice increased tire wear on the shoulders taking 7 psi out?

You can tell it's a heavy car w/ 40 psi all around factory spec.

Can you give me details on your track experience w/ the car.
I haven't noticed any effect on the longevity of the tires. My current M8 is at 13,500 miles and they're doing just fine.

I haven't taken the M8 to the track. I took both of my M5s to road courses as well as the dragstrip. At the dragstrip, tuned 4WD S63 bimmers are tough to beat especially on racegas with tweaked exhausts. On the road courses--and not too surprising--they're awesome in the straights and competent in the corners but you had better be a loooong way in front of say a Porsche if you still want to be in front when you exit the corner.

If I were to guess, I'd say the M8C Coupe or GC would suffer the same laws-of-physics limitations the M5s suffer from: an object in motion tends to stay in yada yada--they let go at the most inopportune times in the twisties. I will say the M8's carbon core is palpable, though--perhaps it'll help but I don't yet know.
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      09-21-2020, 08:35 PM   #60
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I haven't noticed any effect on the longevity of the tires. My current M8 is at 13,500 miles and they're doing just fine.

I haven't taken the M8 to the track. I took both of my M5s to road courses as well as the dragstrip. At the dragstrip, tuned 4WD S63 bimmers are tough to beat especially on racegas with tweaked exhausts. On the road courses--and not too surprising--they're awesome in the straights and competent in the corners but you had better be a loooong way in front of say a Porsche if you still want to be in front when you exit the corner.

If I were to guess, I'd say the M8C Coupe or GC would suffer the same laws-of-physics limitations the M5s suffer from: an object in motion tends to stay in yada yada--they let go at the most inopportune times in the twisties. I will say the M8's carbon core is palpable, though--perhaps it'll help but I don't yet know.
Thanks for the reply.

Did you feel the need to equip your M5s w/ CCBs for the road course?
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      09-21-2020, 08:57 PM   #61
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Thanks for the reply.

Did you feel the need to equip your M5s w/ CCBs for the road course?
My RS7P had them and the absence of fade was noticeable--so was the fact that the brakes melted the face off of my aftermarket wheels.

The M5s both did well... but the brakes did fade. I only track each of my cars perhaps 3 times over the term of my ownership (12-18 months). To me, there's not enough bang for the buck.
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