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      06-25-2020, 09:09 PM   #1
Resjudicata
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Hello everyone, since I recently offered free legal advice to one person who didn't need it, I'm offering free legal advice to all my fellow m850i and m8 drivers.

I'll start with my background and a quick disclaimer, followed by an open Q&A with anything you ever wanted to ask a defense attorney.
To start, I graduated top of my classes through to UVA and my BS, MBA, and JD. I started working for banks and a large firm, before I went to work for one of the Virginia Commonwealth Attorney's Offices. I left and started my own firm. We grew and I soon became one of the largest criminal defense firms in the area. I sold it, cashed out, the business and now am semi-retired.

The following information below on this forum or other media is provided for general informational purposes only. None of the information on this forum or media is offered, nor should it be construed, as legal advice on any matter. Nothing on this forum or media ­– including the presentment, transmittal, and/or receipt of information on this website ­– shall create or is intended to create a prospective or actual attorney-client relationship between you (or any other person) and the licensed Attorney. You should not act or rely upon any information contained in this forum or media without first specifically seeking professional legal advice. By visiting this forum or media or receiving information from this website, you shall not become an actual or prospective client of this law firm and the firm shall not be precluded from representing any persons.
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      06-25-2020, 09:10 PM   #2
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The question I get all the time: What do when you're pulled over.

The answer varies depending on situations, but usually it's at night after you've been partying at the company Christmas party.

Steps to follow:
1: pull over immediately in the safest manner possible.
2: Turn on all your interior lights and open all your windows. don't fidget or fumble around.
3: get your license and registration out and have them ready for the officers. Don't throw them at them, just wait till they ask for the documents.
4: Act Sober. Don't slur your words, and don't slouch. Answer all questions with either "yes, sir." "No." Or "I want my attorney".
5. Look straightforward, hands on or above the wheel in plain view at all times. Don't get out of the car, unless the officer says "you're under arrest"
6. If the officer asks questions like: "do you want to step out", or "come with me"; you can ask "Sir, Am I free to leave?"
7. Thank the officer if he let's you go with just a warning for following the above advice.

Don't ever agree to perform any field sobriety tests, blow into anything, or consent to searches or anything of the kind.
You have a 5th and 6th ammendment right, NOT to do any tests and you should exercise your 6th amendment rights to counsel at all times.

Questions?
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      06-27-2020, 10:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
The question I get all the time: What do when you're pulled over.

The answer varies depending on situations, but usually it's at night after you've been partying at the company Christmas party.

Steps to follow:
1: pull over immediately in the safest manner possible.
2: Turn on all your interior lights and open all your windows. don't fidget or fumble around.
3: get your license and registration out and have them ready for the officers. Don't throw them at them, just wait till they ask for the documents.
4: Act Sober. Don't slur your words, and don't slouch. Answer all questions with either "yes, sir." "No." Or "I want my attorney".
5. Look straightforward, hands on or above the wheel in plain view at all times. Don't get out of the car, unless the officer says "you're under arrest"
6. If the officer asks questions like: "do you want to step out", or "come with me"; you can ask "Sir, Am I free to leave?"
7. Thank the officer if he let's you go with just a warning for following the above advice.

Don't ever agree to perform any field sobriety tests, blow into anything, or consent to searches or anything of the kind.
You have a 5th and 6th ammendment right, NOT to do any tests and you should exercise your 6th amendment rights to counsel at all times.

Questions?
Wow this is good info...and what if officer decides to arrest you for refusing the test? How do u refuse in the most polite way without escalating things? Do you state any type of law that makes them realize you know your rights and the law?
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      06-27-2020, 10:19 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belugs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
The question I get all the time: What do when you're pulled over.

The answer varies depending on situations, but usually it's at night after you've been partying at the company Christmas party.

Steps to follow:
1: pull over immediately in the safest manner possible.
2: Turn on all your interior lights and open all your windows. don't fidget or fumble around.
3: get your license and registration out and have them ready for the officers. Don't throw them at them, just wait till they ask for the documents.
4: Act Sober. Don't slur your words, and don't slouch. Answer all questions with either "yes, sir." "No." Or "I want my attorney".
5. Look straightforward, hands on or above the wheel in plain view at all times. Don't get out of the car, unless the officer says "you're under arrest"
6. If the officer asks questions like: "do you want to step out", or "come with me"; you can ask "Sir, Am I free to leave?"
7. Thank the officer if he let's you go with just a warning for following the above advice.

Don't ever agree to perform any field sobriety tests, blow into anything, or consent to searches or anything of the kind.
You have a 5th and 6th ammendment right, NOT to do any tests and you should exercise your 6th amendment rights to counsel at all times.

Questions?
Wow this is good info...and what if officer decides to arrest you for refusing the test? How do u refuse in the most polite way without escalating things? Do you state any type of law that makes them realize you know your rights and the law?
Ok I re-read the post again. I guess the answer to my question was in plain sight. So 5th amendment not to take the tests and 6th amendment for your lawyer. Is that correct?
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      06-27-2020, 02:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belugs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Belugs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
The question I get all the time: What do when you're pulled over.

The answer varies depending on situations, but usually it's at night after you've been partying at the company Christmas party.

Steps to follow:
1: pull over immediately in the safest manner possible.
2: Turn on all your interior lights and open all your windows. don't fidget or fumble around.
3: get your license and registration out and have them ready for the officers. Don't throw them at them, just wait till they ask for the documents.
4: Act Sober. Don't slur your words, and don't slouch. Answer all questions with either "yes, sir." "No." Or "I want my attorney".
5. Look straightforward, hands on or above the wheel in plain view at all times. Don't get out of the car, unless the officer says "you're under arrest"
6. If the officer asks questions like: "do you want to step out", or "come with me"; you can ask "Sir, Am I free to leave?"
7. Thank the officer if he let's you go with just a warning for following the above advice.

Don't ever agree to perform any field sobriety tests, blow into anything, or consent to searches or anything of the kind.
You have a 5th and 6th ammendment right, NOT to do any tests and you should exercise your 6th amendment rights to counsel at all times.

Questions?
Wow this is good info...and what if officer decides to arrest you for refusing the test? How do u refuse in the most polite way without escalating things? Do you state any type of law that makes them realize you know your rights and the law?
Ok I re-read the post again. I guess the answer to my question was in plain sight. So 5th amendment not to take the tests and 6th amendment for your lawyer. Is that correct?
kinda, that's an over simplification. I'll give a more detailed answer in direct follow up to your prior message. it's an amazing great question by the way.
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      06-27-2020, 02:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belugs View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
The question I get all the time: What do when you're pulled over.

The answer varies depending on situations, but usually it's at night after you've been partying at the company Christmas party.

Steps to follow:
1: pull over immediately in the safest manner possible.
2: Turn on all your interior lights and open all your windows. don't fidget or fumble around.
3: get your license and registration out and have them ready for the officers. Don't throw them at them, just wait till they ask for the documents.
4: Act Sober. Don't slur your words, and don't slouch. Answer all questions with either "yes, sir." "No." Or "I want my attorney".
5. Look straightforward, hands on or above the wheel in plain view at all times. Don't get out of the car, unless the officer says "you're under arrest"
6. If the officer asks questions like: "do you want to step out", or "come with me"; you can ask "Sir, Am I free to leave?"
7. Thank the officer if he let's you go with just a warning for following the above advice.

Don't ever agree to perform any field sobriety tests, blow into anything, or consent to searches or anything of the kind.
You have a 5th and 6th ammendment right, NOT to do any tests and you should exercise your 6th amendment rights to counsel at all times.

Questions?
Wow this is good info...and what if officer decides to arrest you for refusing the test? How do u refuse in the most polite way without escalating things? Do you state any type of law that makes them realize you know your rights and the law?
That's the PERFECT follow up question, and thanks for your comments. I'm trying to provide good info and help everyone.

Questions?[/QUOTE]
Wow this is good info...and what if officer decides to arrest you for refusing the test? How do u refuse in the most polite way without escalating things? Do you state any type of law that makes them realize you know your rights and the law?[/QUOTE]

First, let me start by saying it varies by state and jurisdiction. I'm licensed in Virginia and DC, and while most states are similar, I'll be responding based on Virginia law which is more common law.

Most states including Virginia have an "implied consent" law. which in plain English means that you agree to blow if asked by a cop. HOWEVER, this only applies to the Intoxilator machines at the Station AFTER you've been arrested.
Before you can get to that point, the police will ask for Field Sobriety tests ("FST") and a machine called a "PBT" (preliminary breath test) in order to prove that you're probably guilty.

Before the police call pull you over, they need "RAS" (Reasonable Articular Suspision) to get "PC" (Probable Cause) to arrest.

You're speeding, swerving, or other actions could give rise to RAS that would alert an officer. then the officer will initiate a traffic stop and ask for all kinds of stuff to see if he can get PC. this includes but not limited to the FST and PBT.

YOU DO NOT NEED TO DO the FST or PBT.

However, the cop may still have a reason to get PC neccessary for arrest and make the arrest. You are then handcuffed and transported to the nearest Police Station. this is where you will be observed for 30 minutes and given a choice of whether or not to take the Machine tests.

This is your first real "choice". You can agree and provide the police with evidence that could hurt your DWI or DUI case in court. OR you can refuse and accept certain consequences.

Depending on the law and jurisdiction, refusing in Virginia FOR A FIRST OFFENSE is considered CIVIL and not criminal in any way. However, your second and third refusals, etc; will be considered seperate class misdemeanors with additional jail time and penalties.

In Virginia, if you're guilty of being drunk and driving as a first offense, your first refusal is a civil and the maximum penalty is 12 months without any license. although you rarely get the max, it's what's called a "HARD" loss of license, meaning you can't get a permit and will be walking for at least a year.

If you're guilty of a first DUI in Virginia, you can lose your license for a year; but you're often given a restricted temporary license to get to and from work. Also you face a host of problems such as a year in jail, a $2500 fine, SR22 insurance, and a myriad of other problems.

so it's clearly your call and a judgment call in the moment. However, if you're "drunk" enough to get arrested and taken downtown when you're following all my steps above, the cop probably has a really good feeling you're drunk and you might be advised not to help him out you in jail.

Take my advice and if you're in Virginia, don't Consent.
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      06-27-2020, 10:50 PM   #7
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Interesting as here in AZ one does have the right to refuse the PBT but regardless of the outcome over the long haul of the case that act ends with a 1-year suspension of the individual's drivers license. According to the statutes:
  • 1st Offense refusal to take the breath test will result in a 1 year suspension of their driverís license
  • 2nd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will result in a 2 year suspension of their driverís license
  • 3rd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will also result in a 2 year suspension of their driverís license

Thus, although you may win the overall DUI charge you still can't drive anyway as the outcome.
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      06-28-2020, 12:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Interesting as here in AZ one does have the right to refuse the PBT but regardless of the outcome over the long haul of the case that act ends with a 1-year suspension of the individual's drivers license. According to the statutes:
  • 1st Offense refusal to take the breath test will result in a 1 year suspension of their driver’s license
  • 2nd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will result in a 2 year suspension of their driver’s license
  • 3rd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will also result in a 2 year suspension of their driver’s license

Thus, although you may win the overall DUI charge you still can't drive anyway as the outcome.
that's the same law in Virginia and yes basically similar. I don't know if Arizona classifies it as Civil or Criminal, but in Virginia it's civil.

And that is a BIG deal for many of my former clients in the government, military, and civilians with security clearances. It can be the difference between a promotion or even losing your job.

Also, the refusal is far less painful than the DWI on your insurance and criminal record. Your second DWI is serious and a third is Felony in Virginia.
so if we can get your first DUI dismissed, then your "3rd" is still considered a 2nd. and the misdemeanor penalty is FAR less than the 3rd felony.
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      06-28-2020, 12:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Interesting as here in AZ one does have the right to refuse the PBT but regardless of the outcome over the long haul of the case that act ends with a 1-year suspension of the individual's drivers license. According to the statutes:
  • 1st Offense refusal to take the breath test will result in a 1 year suspension of their driver’s license
  • 2nd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will result in a 2 year suspension of their driver’s license
  • 3rd Offense refusal to take the breath test within 7 years of a previous one will also result in a 2 year suspension of their driver’s license

Thus, although you may win the overall DUI charge you still can't drive anyway as the outcome.
also in Virginia the penalty for a first DUI can be up to 1 year in jail, a $2500 fine, 6 months of ASAP classes, a VIP panel program, 12 months loss of license, 12 points on your DMV, and multiple hits to your insurance for up to a decade - including but not limited to higher premiums, dropped coverage, and SR22 requirements.

Furthermore, should you qualify for a restricted license, you will be required to install a blow and go breathlizer that can add another $1000 and regular inspection and maintenance requirements.

and the list goes on. However, for a simple refusal: Often an attorney can get it dismissed or at the worst, you take a 1 year Loss of license with 0 penalty.
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      06-28-2020, 01:25 AM   #10
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while I didn't write it, here's a good break down covering a lot what I mentioned.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.and...ginia-dui/amp/

Also consider a DWI will cost about $10k-$15k for average first offenders in Virginia. A simple first refusal will cost Attorney Legal Fees only plus dmv reinstatement fee. [roughly $2k or less, depending on case]
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      06-28-2020, 05:16 PM   #11
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What do you think about visibly using your phone to record encounters with the police?


Is it the appropriate course of action or are you just asking for trouble?
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      06-28-2020, 06:32 PM   #12
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What do you think about visibly using your phone to record encounters with the police?


Is it the appropriate course of action or are you just asking for trouble?
That's an EXCELLENT Question! Now I have to caveat by saying I'm only licensed in DC & VA; and every state have (and sometimes towns and counties) are all very different laws about this.

Quick answer: "It Depends".

Short answer: First, for VA it's allowed but not recommended. Second for DC, it's not allowed. In VIRGINIA, almost all cops have dash cam and body cams. In DC, most don't have dash cams, but they are all starting to have body cams. Upon request, defense lawyers can get copies of all these available.

Longer Version: For "visibly" recording with your phone, I'd say the typical lawyer answer : "it depends". What do you hope to accomplish?
Anything you say or do will be admitted as evidence by the cop in a court of law. To object, contradict, or fight those statements; you will need to provide evidence. This is almost always done by the "best evidence method" which means you have to testify in court under oath. This is usually not advisable for criminal defendants.
Even if you have a recording, in order to introduce it in court, you again need to take the stand and testify that you took the video. And even then you need to cross the high bar that you can't remember what happened and only the tape shows the best evidence.
Police officers get to show the tapes because it's their direct testimony, and it's their proof that you committed a crime, and it's the counter to any contradiction from defendants.

Let's say you have a good reason to record. And for some reason you want to visibly do it with your phone. Your second question asks "is it a good idea?" And by now I think you know my answer.
To use your legal words (nice choice by the way):
While it may be possible to be an appropriate course of action; You are DEFINITELY asking for trouble.
Why? Because unless you are allowed by state law, and you are 100% clear what you're doing; it's possible the cop mistakes your phone for a gun and kills you.

In today's black vs blue environment, this may or may not be more necessary; but it's a double edged sword. I'd like to think today police are less likely to use deadly force, but they certainly can by law almost anytime they are "afraid for their life" as a general phrase that pays. And all the cops know that's the magic "get outta jail free" phrase to use when in court.

As a blanket bright line rule: on the streets: "follow and obey the cops" but try to remember everything that happens. And then get your criminal defense attorneys to "Fight it in Court".

And side note:: almost always take everything to court and to trials. It's rare that "prepayment" or plea deals are a good deal, unless you can reduce charges like a felony to a misdemeanor.

Also, if you're in a public place - hopefully odds are that some unbiased third party will have a camera or phone or some recordings. Third party witnesses can sometimes be the best.
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      06-28-2020, 07:35 PM   #13
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Thanks for creating this thread--a nice idea and much appreciated.

I'm curious--and possibly asking you to speculate but... why is video recording an engagement with the police "not allowed"; I'd consider that a reasonable attempt at (albeit citizen-driven and optimistically more credible than words alone) oversight? Does "not allowed" translate to an offense in and of itself (within the jurisdictions you're most familiar with)?
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      06-28-2020, 08:48 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Thanks for creating this thread--a nice idea and much appreciated.

I'm curious--and possibly asking you to speculate but... why is video recording an engagement with the police "not allowed"; I'd consider that a reasonable attempt at (albeit citizen-driven and optimistically more credible than words alone) oversight? Does "not allowed" translate to an offense in and of itself (within the jurisdictions you're most familiar with)?
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Thanks for creating this thread--a nice idea and much appreciated.

I'm curious--and possibly asking you to speculate but... why is video recording an engagement with the police "not allowed"; I'd consider that a reasonable attempt at (albeit citizen-driven and optimistically more credible than words alone) oversight? Does "not allowed" translate to an offense in and of itself (within the jurisdictions you're most familiar with)?
Sure thing, glad to help! And you caught me! I haven't done a case in DC in a decade and it shows!
I looked up some legal searches and found this article:
https://legaltimes.typepad.com/files...complaint1.pdf

That's why lawyers do many hours of live CLE (Continuing Legal Education) to keep up to date on the new laws.

So I stand corrected, you can record cops anywhere that is in a "public" space while visibly public from a non-private view.

Even I thought it was illegal in DC, but I was wrong. It's still not advisable but it can be done. Police can always say it's "interfering with their job" but that's a tougher argument these days.
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      06-28-2020, 11:21 PM   #15
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An attorney not caught up on the law giving legal advice....this ought to be good.
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      06-29-2020, 01:01 AM   #16
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An attorney not caught up on the law giving legal advice....this ought to be good.
That's the spirit!

Unnecessary douchebag comment.
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      06-29-2020, 02:37 AM   #17
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An attorney not caught up on the law giving legal advice....this ought to be good.
This is absolutely uncalled for. He is giving some excellent advice, please don't try to discourage someone who is doing people like you and I a service.

And just to be clear, CLE is a thing. Law isn't "static" everywhere; it is quite fluid actually, as ironic as it may sound.
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      06-29-2020, 09:29 AM   #18
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And just to be clear, CLE is a thing. Law isn't "static" everywhere; it is quite fluid actually, as ironic as it may sound.
That is correct! The laws most places, like in Virginia change every year; with new laws going into effect every July 1.
Just like BMW software updates, sometimes it's small changes, sometimes big ones, but it always creates some added knock on effects every year!!
And sometimes they repeal, sometimes they replace, and sometimes they add new ones. And like BMW, sometimes your "icons" and "apps" get moved to different sections of the legal code!
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      06-29-2020, 09:35 AM   #19
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That's the spirit! Unnecessary douchebag comment.
He clearly can't read, because when an entire police station from the top brass to the front line ALL think that's the law; then I'm definitely in the common stream of thought.
It's a shame that small people get jealous of successful people. but when you rise to a successful career, business, or station in life everyone will try to "knock you down to their lower level".
His jealousy will get him no where and I've blocked him, so I don't even see his comments unless someone replies to him. I think he's just looking for attention the wrong way.

He's no different than my 2 year child, and I hope for his sake that he grows up and finds a better outlet for his jealousy.
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      06-30-2020, 09:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
That's the spirit!

Unnecessary douchebag comment.
Exactly, and just like you and I live in a world of Technology that evolves monthly for incremental steps but guaranteed yearly for a potential absolute disruption so do lawyers. We all strive to keep up to date but at times it's a "fools errand" and we end up prioritizing learning the things that significantly matter over the mundane.
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      07-01-2020, 04:27 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
That's the spirit! Unnecessary douchebag comment.
He clearly can't read, because when an entire police station from the top brass to the front line ALL think that's the law; then I'm definitely in the common stream of thought.
It's a shame that small people get jealous of successful people. but when you rise to a successful career, business, or station in life everyone will try to "knock you down to their lower level".
His jealousy will get him no where and I've blocked him, so I don't even see his comments unless someone replies to him. I think he's just looking for attention the wrong way.

He's no different than my 2 year child, and I hope for his sake that he grows up and finds a better outlet for his jealousy.
LMFAO, yeah, I'm really hurting. You were the one complaining about taking a huge bath on your M850i 2 months ago.

I also wasn't the clown who came on a BMW forum and offered free legal help to the guy who killed 2 people driving drunk in his M8. Like, my God....who even says that on a public forum? It's just odd....

You post on here just to hear yourself talk 98 percent of the time. Every other post is semi-retired this, lawyer that. Blah blah blah.
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      07-01-2020, 09:21 PM   #22
Resjudicata
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
That's the spirit!

Unnecessary douchebag comment.
Exactly, and just like you and I live in a world of Technology that evolves monthly for incremental steps but guaranteed yearly for a potential absolute disruption so do lawyers. We all strive to keep up to date but at times it's a "fools errand" and we end up prioritizing learning the things that significantly matter over the mundane.
Thanks. And speaking of which, new laws in Virginia as of today. Tighter gun laws, more rules in crosswalks, casinos now legal, and marijuana decriminalized. Those are just some of this years highlights.
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