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      09-25-2020, 04:42 AM   #1
sollomon
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M8 axle exploded

First of all
yes not broken down. it exploded at 1300 miles
before i start let me just list the things i have on the car
F92 Comp

front tire 285/35/20
rear tire 305/30/20
Intake
H&R Spring
Exhaust
NO TUNE

changed my tires and wheels over the weekend.
i was driving maybe about 40-50 mph and i started feeling something shaking and all of sudden BOOM!!! i hear something blow up and i had to pull over to the side.

i dont know if im tripping or bmw is f*ked up. but
bmw is denying the warrenty to replace the axle
i dont know what to do at this point.
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      09-25-2020, 06:47 AM   #2
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Wow. Looks similar to when my output shaft broke on my F80 M3, although that was launching it at a drag strip.

I'm not familiar with stock M8 tire sizes, and don't know what wheels you have on the car. Perhaps if they're not the same overall diameter it might be a reason for BMW to deny the claim. Either way, BMW has to prove something YOU did was the cause for the axle to fail. What did the dealer say? Usually they are your go between for these matters. If they've already taken it to BMW and it's an official NO from them, I'd hand it to your lawyer. Should be an easily remedied issue, if you didn't do anything to void your warranty. Best of luck!
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      09-25-2020, 12:41 PM   #3
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Wow, reminds me of the old days when hard launching 930's turbos (all manuals then) and the CV joints would break...
What is BMW's rationale for not covering?
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      09-25-2020, 01:57 PM   #4
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BMW says there's a reason why car is designed in that way. Yes it has been taken to BMW and it was official f*k off or pay me 4500 to fix.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DBV View Post
Wow. Looks similar to when my output shaft broke on my F80 M3, although that was launching it at a drag strip.

I'm not familiar with stock M8 tire sizes, and don't know what wheels you have on the car. Perhaps if they're not the same overall diameter it might be a reason for BMW to deny the claim. Either way, BMW has to prove something YOU did was the cause for the axle to fail. What did the dealer say? Usually they are your go between for these matters. If they've already taken it to BMW and it's an official NO from them, I'd hand it to your lawyer. Should be an easily remedied issue, if you didn't do anything to void your warranty. Best of luck!
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      09-25-2020, 06:46 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by debdoub View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DBV View Post
Wow. Looks similar to when my output shaft broke on my F80 M3, although that was launching it at a drag strip.

I'm not familiar with stock M8 tire sizes, and don't know what wheels you have on the car. Perhaps if they're not the same overall diameter it might be a reason for BMW to deny the claim. Either way, BMW has to prove something YOU did was the cause for the axle to fail. What did the dealer say? Usually they are your go between for these matters. If they've already taken it to BMW and it's an official NO from them, I'd hand it to your lawyer. Should be an easily remedied issue, if you didn't do anything to void your warranty. Best of luck!
front tire 285/35/20! that is extremely wild width.
rear tire 305/30/20

I'm sure these are not stock.
They are not stock. Stock is 275/35 front, 285/35 rear (20").

With that setup, it's a 0.8" greater variance relative to the stock front <-> rear circumference. It also flips where the greater circumference wheels are: stock, it's the rears; with this setup, the fronts have the larger circumference. I've no idea if that matters.

@OP: did you verify the drivetrain could tolerate this?

For reference, I run 285/35/20 front (same as OP) and 295/35/20 rear--14,000 miles, no issues.

Last edited by limeypride; 09-25-2020 at 06:56 PM..
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      09-25-2020, 07:59 PM   #6
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I can't see how slightly/moderately larger rear tires would cause this issue or void the warranty.
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      09-25-2020, 09:00 PM   #7
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Just checking this is one of the rear axles coming out of the diff, not the driveshaft that runs from the back of the trans to the diff?
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      09-25-2020, 10:18 PM   #8
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If he is running different wheels with different offsets could put a lot of stress on the outer wheel and essentially a bending motion on the driveshafts but that would have to be a lot wider than .8 inch I would think. Similar risk with wheel spacers. I had larger wheels on my m6 but they were identical to comp package size and HRE made them with no issues. I have wider Vossen wheels on my x3m rear but the offsets are adjusted to keep track width the same.

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      09-25-2020, 10:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
If he is running different wheels with different offsets could put a lot of stress on the outer wheel and essentially a bending motion on the driveshafts but that would have to be a lot wider than .8 inch I would think. Similar risk with wheel spacers. I had larger wheels on my m6 but they were identical to comp package size and HRE made them with no issues. I have wider Vossen wheels on my x3m rear but the offsets are adjusted to keep track width the same.

Noushy
I agree
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      09-26-2020, 05:21 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
If he is running different wheels with different offsets could put a lot of stress on the outer wheel and essentially a bending motion on the driveshafts but that would have to be a lot wider than .8 inch I would think. Similar risk with wheel spacers. I had larger wheels on my m6 but they were identical to comp package size and HRE made them with no issues. I have wider Vossen wheels on my x3m rear but the offsets are adjusted to keep track width the same.

Noushy
running on the correct offset for m8
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      09-26-2020, 05:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brad850csi View Post
Just checking this is one of the rear axles coming out of the diff, not the driveshaft that runs from the back of the trans to the diff?
front driver side
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      09-26-2020, 05:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
If he is running different wheels with different offsets could put a lot of stress on the outer wheel and essentially a bending motion on the driveshafts but that would have to be a lot wider than .8 inch I would think. Similar risk with wheel spacers. I had larger wheels on my m6 but they were identical to comp package size and HRE made them with no issues. I have wider Vossen wheels on my x3m rear but the offsets are adjusted to keep track width the same.

Noushy
BBS CIR 0501 Front
20 x 10 + 25
PS4S 285/35/20

BBS CI-R 0401 Rear
20 x 10.5 +35
PS4S 305/30/20

i was told to put +10cm spacer in rear because it wont clear, but i found out it actually clears so didnt installed it.

what i dont understand is why front?
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      09-26-2020, 05:35 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
I can't see how slightly/moderately larger rear tires would cause this issue or void the warranty.
tire and wheel is not the problem,
bmw is saying *spring* from H&R
car is not even tuned also
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      09-26-2020, 05:49 PM   #14
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The overall diameter of the stock setup is 27.6 front and 27.9 rear

The overall diameter of the setup you are running is 27.9 front and 27.2 rear. That seems, especially in rear, enough off to affect the drivetrain

I'm not at all saying it's your fault actually seems unrelated. I would have expected some kind of drivetrain malfunction with the diameters being off quite a bit from stock
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      09-26-2020, 06:10 PM   #15
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Spoke with my tech who is one of the best in the business and a former racecar mech in Nascar says widening the track and weight puts more stress on the ball joints and suspension parts and those can fail and then take out everything else. This includes the hub. He says the higher the speed and load the more likely. But he doesn't think the ops mods are significant enough to do it. He said with really wild reverse barrel setups and spacers yes.

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      09-26-2020, 06:47 PM   #16
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Think of the countless people that increase the size of their wheels and tires far larger than what he did proportionately and not on uber engineered cars like an M8 Comp and never have an issue like this, especially after just a few hours or so. It's either simply a bad part (it happens) or perhaps there's more to the story...
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      09-26-2020, 06:50 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sollomon View Post
tire and wheel is not the problem,
bmw is saying *spring* from H&R
car is not even tuned also
There you go, but I'm not quite sure how a spring would cause this, did they explain?
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      09-26-2020, 06:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by sollomon View Post
tire and wheel is not the problem,
bmw is saying *spring* from H&R
car is not even tuned also
There you go, but I'm not quite sure how a spring would cause this, did they explain?
Again I am sure there is more but my tech cautioned about changing contact patches, wheel weight and spacers especially with aggressive offsets. Again he said caution and that especially on a track it would put extra strain on the ball joint and hub. But he did say less than an inch shouldn't make a difference. Maybe this combination with springs and wheel dynamics was enough.

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      09-26-2020, 07:04 PM   #19
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Many marques/vehicles offer larger wheels and tires as a factory option and there's no changes to beef up driveline components. He also wasn't tracking the car just driving 40-50 mph according to the OP. If I were the OP I would insist BMW to put something in writing explaining the exact reason the spring/s caused their driveline part to disintegrate at 40-50 mph of normal driving. I would then send that to HR for their take.

EDIT: I have been very vocal here nd on other forums to avoid modifications without prior blessings...
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      09-26-2020, 09:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Many marques/vehicles offer larger wheels and tires as a factory option and there's no changes to beef up driveline components. He also wasn't tracking the car just driving 40-50 mph according to the OP. If I were the OP I would insist BMW to put something in writing explaining the exact reason the spring/s caused their driveline part to disintegrate at 40-50 mph of normal driving. I would then send that to HR for their take.

EDIT: I have been very vocal here nd on other forums to avoid modifications without prior blessings...
They do offer plus sizes but the diameter of the wheels is the same or nearly the same. Doesn't change anything with the rolling diameter. That's why I mentioned the large diff he is running in overall diameter of the wheels. The wheels/tires are now rotating faster or slower than the stock diameter wheels which may cause extra stress.

I'm not referring to the width just the change in the diameter of the wheels vs what he has on the car

"The total diameter of your tire and wheels needs to be the same as your original equipment tires. If you vary from the total diameter by more than three per cent, you could be risking problems with your vehicle's computer, braking system, transmission and mileage."
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      09-26-2020, 09:11 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
They do offer plus sizes but the diameter of the wheels is the same or nearly the same. Doesn't change anything with the rolling diameter. That's why I mentioned the large diff he is running in overall diameter of the wheels. The wheels/tires are now rotating faster or slower than the stock diameter wheels which may cause extra stress.

I'm not referring to the width just the change in the diameter of the wheels vs what he has on the car

"The total diameter of your tire and wheels needs to be the same as your original equipment tires. If you vary from the total diameter by more than three per cent, you could be risking problems with your vehicle's computer, braking system, transmission and mileage."
That's a great point, as normally if you go from a 20 to a 22 etc the height of the tire sidewall indeed drops, but the width of the tire usually grows wider
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Last edited by RJC-1; 09-26-2020 at 09:16 PM..
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      09-26-2020, 09:16 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LSM View Post
They do offer plus sizes but the diameter of the wheels is the same or nearly the same. Doesn't change anything with the rolling diameter. That's why I mentioned the large diff he is running in overall diameter of the wheels. The wheels/tires are now rotating faster or slower than the stock diameter wheels which may cause extra stress.

I'm not referring to the width just the change in the diameter of the wheels vs what he has on the car

"The total diameter of your tire and wheels needs to be the same as your original equipment tires. If you vary from the total diameter by more than three per cent, you could be risking problems with your vehicle's computer, braking system, transmission and mileage."
That's a great point, as normally if you go from a 20 to a 22 etc the height of the tire sidewall indeed drops
Of course the problems caused by running beyond spec overall diameter wheels/tires doesn't sound like his problem. May be a combo of springs and the overall diameter being different who knows.

Either way hope OP gets a positive resolution
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