[Red Bread]

Congratulations on finding a dumber argument than manual vs flappy paddle.

[zenmaster]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Just saw this recent article. Looks like Telsa might move to a supercharger credit system.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model...-mytesla-page/

That's good for people that take infrequent long-distance road trips. Saves that Model S embedded cost of pre-paid "lifetime" usage. Also discourages local use which is quite rampant among those that feel entitled, regardless of purpose. Local use would otherwise be a big problem once the mass produced Model 3 hits the roads.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Blipit_

Just saw this recent article. Looks like Telsa might move to a supercharger credit system.

http://www.teslarati.com/tesla-model...-mytesla-page/

Yeah, saw it earlier today as well
https://cleantechnica.com/2016/08/31...arging-pay-go/

I thinks it's clever
You can use it when you need it with no upfront cost

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by e90m305

Ah, there we go, Dr. Tyson quoted with his picture next to words, that closes the case; settled science. Humans are going to completely change the climate of the Earth! Somehow all the data from the geological record, fossil record, astro-physical record, celestial record, and anthropological record is all wrong. The Earth has been this static paradise forever and humans have always existed on it, and it will stay this way if we all just stop driving cars and eating animals, and use solar and wind power.

Where do I join up!?

LOL

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah, there we go, Dr. Tyson quoted with his picture next to words, that closes the case; settled science. Humans are going to completely change the climate of the Earth! Somehow all the data from the geological record, fossil record, astro-physical record, celestial record, and anthropological record is all wrong. The Earth has been this static paradise forever and humans have always existed on it, and it will stay this way if we all just stop driving cars and eating animals, and use solar and wind power.

Where do I join up!?

LOL

Classic straw man fallacy above if anyone wants to study it or use it for a class.

[Spinnetti]

This whole thread sure makes it look like all BMW owners are politically right of hitler. I'm a dyed in the wool car crazy, but if the Tesla were a bit cheaper I'd buy one. The economics don't quite work for me as is - I think it will with the model 3, but I don't want to wait that long, so an M2 will probably be my ICE swan song... long term keep it as a toy but drive electric daily... Its cheaper, less poluting, faster in daily traffic etc... most trips are short and in town... People who can afford one don't just have one car do they? Can use one of the others for long trips if worried about range.. I'll still have my garage full of race cars anyway. Bash away

[NickyC]

I have no real opinion on the global warming debate, most of what I see from looking in on the outside is it's political. From what I've read there's been no meaningful rise in global temperatures over the past 20 years, and we're now into our 22 consecutive year with technically no warming. All of the gloom and doom models predicted have been 100% incorrect thus far as well, so whatever impact we're having on the environment, appears to be absolutely minimal at this point.

Regardless, if they can make electric cars and make them better than their fossil fuel driven equivalents, what's the problem? I can't remember the last time I drove over 300 miles, or took my car here in St. Louis to the 'Ring in Germany. Who cares about 100-160mph acceleration, you're a complete jerkoff if you do that on public roads. I think electric cars are absolutely perfect for day to day driving. Mad acceleration off the line, and super quick response. I don't get the hate personally.

[Frozen]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Ah, there we go, Dr. Tyson quoted with his picture next to words, that closes the case; settled science. Humans are going to completely change the climate of the Earth! Somehow all the data from the geological record, fossil record, astro-physical record, celestial record, and anthropological record is all wrong. The Earth has been this static paradise forever and humans have always existed on it, and it will stay this way if we all just stop driving cars and eating animals, and use solar and wind power.

Where do I join up!?

LOL

Straw man. You're right however, the earth has changed & has gone through warming and cooling periods over millions of years, but that's not what is happening right now. Don't be ignorant.

[Frozen]

Originally Posted by NickyC

I have no real opinion on the global warming debate, most of what I see from looking in on the outside is it's political. From what I've read there's been no meaningful rise in global temperatures over the past 20 years, and we're now into our 22 consecutive year with technically no warming.

Where did you get this data?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by e90m305

Where did you get this data?

Some random weatherman. But if he's wrong, it was just the first link. Someone else with an official sounding title will come along with similar claims.

Deniers are amusing.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Some random weatherman. But if he's wrong, it was just the first link. Someone else with an official sounding title will come along with similar claims.

Deniers are amusing.

Deniers? Is this like a cult to you people? All you have to do is google no warming for 20+ years, and there is link after link and graph after graph showing no statistically significant warming in the past 20 years. The trend is flat, which is the exact opposite of all the doom and gloom predictions from our precious, know it all scientists so many of you seem to bow at the altar for.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Deniers? Is this like a cult to you people? All you have to do is google no warming for 20+ years, and there is link after link and graph after graph showing no statistically significant warming in the past 20 years.

I can find images of a flat earth too.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I can find images of a flat earth too.

Well here's the deal, now the Pontiff himself is telling all the religious folk they need to atone for man made global warming as well.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...g-car-pooling/

I'm personally going to start car pooling now to save the polar bears! What about buying a Tesla, is that the 2016 version of buying an indulgence?

Lmfao, this crap can't get anymore ridiculous.

Edit, forgot to mention though, I think the greatest thing about buying an electric car such as the Tesla is that you're essentially flipping a huge middle finger to the Middle East and all of the various scumbags around the world who have held us hostage for decades because of some black junk they can pump out of the ground. Is there anything more repulsive than big oil or OPEC? Why electric cars shouldn't be cheered and hoped for all is beyond me. I'm a huuuuge car nut, and if Tesla can come through with their Model 3 or whatever and bring the same great technology they put in their flagship cars to the masses where it's affordable, how can anyone possibly think this is a bad thing?

If Tesla makes a nice car sub $40k, it's an absolute no brainer and I'll be first in line screaming for them to take my money. I'll still keep my Z4M because I love it more than anything, but if Tesla can come through with the above, it's bye bye BMW (or anybody else for that matter) for me.

[yousefnjr]

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/

[Frozen]

I'm willing to change my views on climate change if you guys can convince me with intelligent arguments.

Let's start here, please watch and let's discuss it's only 6 min and is non-political:

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

Classic straw man fallacy above if anyone wants to study it or use it for a class.

No strawman; you apparently don't understand sarcasm. Dr. Tyson (apparently) said "it's factual" regarding anthropocentric global warming... i.e. "settled science". "...the geological record, fossil record, astro-physical record, celestial record, and anthropological record..." show that the Earth's climate changes drastically all on it's own... i.e. counter argument. "The Earth has been this static paradise forever and humans have always existed on it, and it will stay this way if we all just stop driving cars and eating animals, and use solar and wind power."... sarcasm.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Deniers? Is this like a cult to you people? All you have to do is google no warming for 20+ years, and there is link after link and graph after graph showing no statistically significant warming in the past 20 years. The trend is flat, which is the exact opposite of all the doom and gloom predictions from our precious, know it all scientists so many of you seem to bow at the altar for.

Even if there is empirical data that show the Earth has warmed for the last 20 years doesn't mean that humans are causing it, or that the Earth will stay "warmer". All it means is the Earth was warmer than some other observed point in time. The problem is that there is no comparable observed data for more than possibly 250 years. 250 years is one ten thousandth the diameter of a Nat's ass hair in the scope of the 4B-year existence of the planet, which gets back to the validation (credibility) of climate models...

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

No strawman; you apparently don't understand sarcasm. Dr. Tyson (apparently) said "it's factual" regarding anthropocentric global warming... i.e. "settled science". "...the geological record, fossil record, astro-physical record, celestial record, and anthropological record..." show that the Earth's climate changes drastically all on it's own... i.e. counter argument.

No, straw man. That response shows you do not understand the issue on the most basic level. The claim is not that the earth hasn't changed climate/temperatures all on it's own, over time.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

No, straw man. That response shows you do not understand the issue on the most basic level. The claim is not that the earth hasn't changed climate/temperatures all on it's own, over time.

Nope, I do understand the issue on the most basic level and better than you do. The argument of globalwarmingclimatechnage is that the greenhouse effect is affected by the level of free carbon gas in the atmosphere. Being that the greenhouse effect is what sustains life on the planet by keeping the temperature of the plant within a range that is conducive to developing and maintaining life in its various forms. The fear of the globalwarmingclimatechange community is that the greenhouse effect is of such delicate balance that any significant change in greenhouse gases (mainly carbon in their minds) will drastically alter the greenhouse balance and send the Earth into uninhabitable climate state for humans. So the obvious solution is to devise ways to reduce or stop exhausting carbon-based gases into the atmosphere. One easy and politically visible way is to shut down factories, close coal-fueled power plants, and stop driving gasoline and diesel fueled automobiles. The reason it is political is because closing down manufacturing plants, shutting off coal-fueled electrical plants, and stopping the use of the internal combustion engine to power automobiles affect the livelihood of the humans the globalwarmingclimatechangists are trying to save.

The unanswerable question is if and how human activity (via the exhausting of carbon gasses into the atmosphere) is altering the greenhouse effect, which is where climate modelling is employed to try and answer the question. People who understand science, and who understand modelling, merely question the validity of the climate models used to determine the answer to the unanswerable question. This in turn affects the decision making of the globalwarmingclimatechangists who make the political decisions to curb carbon emissions. The argument here of the Earthtraditionalists (people like me) is that the globalwarmingclimatechangists are making bad decisions based off of bad data created by inaccurate and un-validated climate models. The only conclusion one can reach is that the globalwarmingclimatechangists want to (and think they can) manipulate the greenhouse effect in such ways as to keep the Earth's climate static so that human life can remain on the planet forever.

The Earthtraditionalists' counter argument is that the various branches of scientific study being things such as anthropology, geology, astronomy, have discovered data that show the Earth's climate changes without any intervention from humans, and that celestial mechanics has very much to do with the climate status of the Earth, which means the climate is supposed to change. And just to cut this short... means that the only reason humans exist on the planet at is IS BECAUSE of climate change. So the thinking by the globalwarmingclimatechangists that they can fuck with the greenhouse effect to keep the Earth's climate static and inhabitable for humans for the remaining of time is completely laughable. The sad part is that some coal miner in West Virginia trying to raise his family and have a cool truck gets fucked out of a job by this ridiculous mindset. That's why it is political.

This is the issue at its most basic level.

[Efthreeoh]

I wonder how many Tesla S's and Tesla X's it takes to counteract the carbon emissions of one SpaceX rocket that blows up on the launch pad...

[GotE46M]

Its so damn ugly though..

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I wonder how many Tesla S's and Tesla X's it takes to counteract the carbon emissions of one SpaceX rocket that blows up on the launch pad...

Remember BP oil spill?
It may take quite a few Teslas to counteract that
The sad part is, I still have to inhale fumes when i drive my clean car, especially in heavy traffic
Gotta get one of those bio defense modes they put in new S and X

So, global warming aside, they all pollute and stink, especially dirty diesels
Air quality is terrible in metro areas, can't even see stars through the smog, never mind the breathing