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      03-23-2020, 05:53 PM   #1
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Haters going to Hate.

more bad press.
https://www.motor1.com/news/405697/b...-difficulties/
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      03-23-2020, 06:04 PM   #2
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It is a very fun vehicle to drive. It drives a lot nicer and more exciting than say 7 series.
It does not change the fact that it does not look particularly good outside. Not bad, and that's about sums it up. And the inside it is very ordinary. Aside from the ride it does feel like an equivalent to a 5-series vehicle.
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      03-23-2020, 08:58 PM   #3
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I like my M8 (when it works) - that being said it's overpriced. The fact that I have to keep bringing it into service makes me have a lot of buyers remorse. I can only hope they (BMW + service) keep on doing what they're doing for fixes so I can lemon-law it and move on
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      03-23-2020, 09:15 PM   #4
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Not sure where the hate or "hater" is in this article, its simply explaining that the 8-series is having a hard time selling, which makes sense in our current market.

Today, everyone wants SUVs, not coupes or verts, and to make matters worse the price is very high, which limits the market even further into a small niche to which BMW simply overestimated demand for. Going into the $100k+ "sports car/GT" market is a very tricky task, and one that most people would simply just associate with the 911. Marketing seems like an excuse if anything, I doubt that it will fix the problem. The slow selling 6-series coupe and convertible should have been any indication to BMW that the new 8 wouldn't have fared any better even with new upgrades made.

Not to say the 8 is a bad car, because it isn't, but I believe its main problem is at its price point for most models such as the M850 or M8, there's a large selection of more desirable vehicles that are either priced similarly or only a tad higher than the 8.
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      03-23-2020, 09:45 PM   #5
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To defend the 8-series: one can find a good one with substantial discount. For example, I was on the market for a Lexus LC500 (I simply love that vehicle, still do). But I had to check what's comparable available from BMW.... and it ended up being $7k cheaper than the Lexus. So it won me over, as the customer. Better performance, lesser price. Lexus quality and frankly much better looks were not enough in this case. I suspect I'm not alone who ended up buying because it is a nice product that can be found at competitive price point.
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      03-23-2020, 09:49 PM   #6
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It's a small niche car that is not that practical. You have to want a GT car rather than a sports car and be willing to pay the price premium. The GC is the most practical but quite a bit more expensive than a M5. For someone who wants a convertible, there is a better case to be made since there are very few comparable cars and most are more expensive.

On the other hand, the 992 911 Turbo/Turbo S are going to be quite a bit more expensive than the M8. Even though they are apples to oranges, the 911 is often mentioned as the alternative. There's pain involved for sure.
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      03-23-2020, 10:04 PM   #7
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Didn't see any "hate," in the article
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      03-23-2020, 10:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WCH View Post
It's a small niche car that is not that practical. You have to want a GT car rather than a sports car and be willing to pay the price premium. The GC is the most practical but quite a bit more expensive than a M5. For someone who wants a convertible, there is a better case to be made since there are very few comparable cars and most are more expensive.

On the other hand, the 992 911 Turbo/Turbo S are going to be quite a bit more expensive than the M8. Even though they are apples to oranges, the 911 is often mentioned as the alternative. There's pain involved for sure.
I agree for the convertible. I was in the market for 6 months and nothing came close to my $120k 2019 bmw m850i fully loaded convertible. msrp 134, invoice 125k.

the closest thing, was $40k more. the one I wanted was 2x the bmw price. (280k) so I went m850i, and I've been happy so far. minus 2 service visits in first 6 months.
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      03-24-2020, 12:56 AM   #9
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I'm not surprised. By its very nature this segment has a lot working against it. The Lexus LC and S-class coupe/vert are selling poorly as well. There's a lot of competition too with the 911, AMG GT, and Aston Martin Vantage (which dealers are running some really strong leases on). The 8-series never had a massive following the way the Porsche 911 does; so like the article says, offering 15 versions of a car 10 people want to buy doesn't make sense.

I think for the most part the product is fine. The 8-series looks nice, has an amazing powertrain, and interior quality is top notch. The car's biggest failure, aside from price, is the interior design. It is just far to plain jane for a flagship vehicle (7-series suffers from the same problem). But then again, the S-class coupe/vert have an amazingly beautiful interior but they aren't selling either...
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      03-24-2020, 01:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
I'm not surprised. By its very nature this segment has a lot working against it. The Lexus LC and S-class coupe/vert are selling poorly as well. There's a lot of competition too with the 911, AMG GT, and Aston Martin Vantage (which dealers are running some really strong leases on). The 8-series never had a massive following the way the Porsche 911 does; so like the article says, offering 15 versions of a car 10 people want to buy doesn't make sense.

I think for the most part the product is fine. The 8-series looks nice, has an amazing powertrain, and interior quality is top notch. The car's biggest failure, aside from price, is the interior design. It is just far to plain jane for a flagship vehicle (7-series suffers from the same problem). But then again, the S-class coupe/vert have an amazingly beautiful interior but they aren't selling either...
I cross shopped with that S. class. it's amazing, but it drives like a land yatch hit an anchor dock.

someone needs to take the technology and engine power from bmw and put it into the Leather seats of the Mercedes. then get am aftermarket guy to fix the body looks.
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      03-24-2020, 08:52 AM   #11
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Ok I have seen all the articles and the news and my thought is simple they are great but $20k overpriced at least for the M8. As far as looks anyone who hasn't seen it in person should not comment. I have owned many BMWs and this is by far one of the cleanest and nicest BMWs I have owned. In person it is low and wide and has presence.

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      03-24-2020, 09:08 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Resjudicata View Post
I cross shopped with that S. class. it's amazing, but it drives like a land yatch hit an anchor dock.
That's kind of the point though. You buy the S-Class because its the benchmark of full-size luxury, the S-Class has never wanted and never will become sporty, its always been about luxury, although the S63 does fix some of its shortcomings but again it will still be more GT than anything. Those looking for a fun Mercedes coupe are likely to enjoy the AMG GT more, or E53 coupe more.
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      03-24-2020, 09:24 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
That's kind of point though. You buy the S-Class because its the benchmark of full-size luxury, the S-Class has never wanted and never will become sporty, its always been about luxury, although the S63 does fix some of its shortcomings but again it will still be more GT than anything. Those looking for a fun Mercedes coupe are likely to enjoy the AMG GT more, or E53 coupe more.
To be more specific, MB is dropping the S coupe altogether including the AMG models which most likely goes to poor sales and they have no plans to release the next S Class in a coupe form.

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      03-24-2020, 09:26 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by joshuastein55 View Post
That's kind of point though. You buy the S-Class because its the benchmark of full-size luxury, the S-Class has never wanted and never will become sporty, its always been about luxury, although the S63 does fix some of its shortcomings but again it will still be more GT than anything. Those looking for a fun Mercedes coupe are likely to enjoy the AMG GT more, or E53 coupe more.
To be more specific, MB is dropping the S coupe altogether including the AMG models which most likely goes to poor sales and they have no plans to release the next S Class in a coupe form.

Noushy
Oh I know, it makes sense too, they offer three different sets of coupes/verts passed the $100k mark and probably sell very little of each. Pretty much the AMG GT and SL (with a soft-top only) will be the only choices soon.
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      03-24-2020, 11:05 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epiplatys View Post
To defend the 8-series: one can find a good one with substantial discount. For example, I was on the market for a Lexus LC500 (I simply love that vehicle, still do). But I had to check what's comparable available from BMW.... and it ended up being $7k cheaper than the Lexus. So it won me over, as the customer. Better performance, lesser price. Lexus quality and frankly much better looks were not enough in this case. I suspect I'm not alone who ended up buying because it is a nice product that can be found at competitive price point.
Plus that it is technically and performance wise in completely different league
The BMW is simply the better car.
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      03-24-2020, 11:10 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
To be more specific, MB is dropping the S coupe altogether including the AMG models which most likely goes to poor sales and they have no plans to release the next S Class in a coupe form.

Noushy
The S-coupe was highly regarded and well reviewed anywhere. They have always sold in low volumes but Mercedes for unknown reasons always de-incentivized sales.
Most people lease these days.
The S-class lease rate were subvented while the coupe (even non-AMG) was leading at the full rate with lower residual.
The same price coupe leased for 50% than the sedan. That also hurt sales
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      03-24-2020, 01:32 PM   #17
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The m8 is better looking in person than in pics but the problem is the price. It's going to also compete against the 911 (992) Carrera S and 4S. Unfortunately, the automotive press universally seems to love the new 992 and I haven't seem the same adoration for the M8. Having driven both and having owned a m6 grand coupe and a 911 turbo, they drive very differently. The m8 is softer riding and more comfortable but honestly the 911 (992) is a much more engaging drive and for the latest generation is more comfortable than ever. Another issue is the 911 seems to hold its value much better.

The M8 has some very tough competition in its price range
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      03-24-2020, 07:03 PM   #18
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As others said pictures really don't do this car justice. The car really looks like a whole different car in person. Marketing isn't the sole factor why it isn't selling but not advertising its true looks doesn't help either.
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      03-24-2020, 07:31 PM   #19
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Agree with the majority of the sentiment. I think the salient point in the article (as read it even before it was posted on Bimmerpost) is the world we are now living in (COVID-19 aside) is a SUV based market. Case-in-point the traditional minivan market segment has also plunged due to the SUV fascination. I totally get that as if the wife wanted a minivan a couple of years back I would have laughed her out of the house but she wanted a SUV and specifically a X5 as it was her dream. Truth be told I tried to talk her out of the X5 in lieu of a MDX (trust Honda/Lexus) for longevity but her X5 brought the first BMW in the household and I now have a M850i (fingers crossed on long term maintenance, etc.)

If anything I can see BMW killing off the M850i as it likely cannibalizes on potential M8 sales. That may sound absurd but it did so for me as I chose the M850i vs a M8. To that point a guy I met at my detailer when I was getting the PPF and ceramic coating done asked me about the car. He said he was looking for a daily driver and indicated the M850i was the better deal over a M8. At the time I met him in the parking lot he was stepping out of a McLaren 720s. I didn't even get a chance to talk about that as he was more interested in the M850i. Fast forward to one of my last trips for a maintenance wash (before the COVID-19 self isolation) and I ran into him again. This time he was getting a brand new Ferarri Pista PPF'd. First words out of his mouth were (paraphrased) "I have my car broker dealing on a M850i".

That said look at the UK market as it is at least one in which I'm aware of that the M8C only exists, i.e., no option for a M8. I've dealt with self-induced product cannibalization several times over my career. Ultimately, the answer was to streamline the offering. In other words you cannot offer everything to everyone but need to target your upper right hand quadrant in your desired customer space and hopefully move other potential buyers to it.
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