12-15-2018, 08:57 PM | #23 |
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12-15-2018, 10:03 PM | #24 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-15-2018, 10:05 PM | #25 |
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No, they made them for Roundelhounds.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-15-2018, 10:07 PM | #26 |
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The Roundelhound can then slam it into a tree; even with all the nannies activated. Hopefully removing himself from the gene pool, thus increasing the BMW enthusiast-to-Roundelhound ratio by one (1). The more that happens, then maybe BMW will get back to building cars for normal car enthusiasts...
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-15-2018, 11:20 PM | #27 | |
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So I guess BMW isn’t as “hot” as the Hyundai and Kia in that regard. |
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12-16-2018, 06:32 AM | #29 | |
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And it only took BMW about three years to get my airbag sorted out for the driver's side and about 2.5 years for the passenger side seat sensor.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 06:57 AM | #30 | |
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Everyone's more than welcome to have their preference, and I think most would agree when it comes to engagement, the manual is the way to go ultimately, however picking out a single feature-point as an argument against the other option being objectively superior overall, doesn't exactly help you to make your point. By this logic "a run-down waiting to be scrapeed 316i is the best BMW because it's superior in having the lowest price. Never mind all the other factors." Now based on your posts in this thread, I'm guessing you'll disregard my opinion completely as well, as I haven't shown any evidence I'd be driving a true manual transmission M BMW, which among other things in your opinion makes me automatically a "roundelhound" I guess. Very purist of you, sir. |
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12-16-2018, 07:05 AM | #31 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 07:16 AM | #32 | ||
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I won't even bother discussing further how you yourself missed the point I was making, because I'm not one bit surprised, and at this point I can clearly see it isn't worth the effort. |
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12-16-2018, 07:32 AM | #33 |
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I drive over 30,000 miles a year just to work, so I'd love to have an electric if it (a) would be less expensive to own from a total-ownership cost (lifecycle cost), and (b) provide for less maintenance. The Model 3 at $51K, which is about the lowest price you can get one at the moment, for my transportation cost profile, doesn't pay itself back until 270,000 miles compared to if I were to buy a decent 30-MPG $26,000 4-door ICE sedan (market forces what they are, 3 weeks ago I could have bought a new ATS at a heavily discounted price of $26K) . Outside of that, I just don't think the 3 is that good of a car at this point in it's development. I think it rides very harshly and the backseat is just atrocious comfort-wise. I've spent some time in a colleague's Model 3 Performance as a passenger and I just find the overall package disappointing. It's an impressive car for sure, and kudos to Tesla for standing up a car company and producing the first 300-mile range EV sedan priced under $100,000. If Tesla ever gets around to building the $35,000 version, which it now has to do without the $7,500 tax credit, I fear to see how much less content it will have from the current $50K version.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 08:06 AM | #34 | |
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For some reason you decided to get in on a discussion I had with another Poster. He missed my point about driver control, which is not the same as engagement, which is a word as well as description of action; I am focusing on the action. I prefer a manual transmission because it gives greater control over the act of driving the vehicle, which is why I disagree that modern automatics are superior to a manual transmission. If you want to call it purist, then that's fine. A manumatic, paddle-shifted automatic transmission offers as much "engagement" with the vehicle as a manual transmission, yet it doesn't provide the same level of control. Yup, I get it, a manumatic provides convenience of not having to use one's left leg as part of the act driving when in heavy traffic, and provides some similitude of manually shifting the transmission's gears; however, it is not an exact replacement. From my point of view, I don't find manually shifting the transmission with a foot-operated clutch as inconvenient, even in heavy traffic. I've merely just suggested BMW should offer a manual transmission in the G20. From what I've read the M version of the new 3-series may offer a manual transmission, which is a trend I don't appreciate that if one wants a manual transmission, he has to buy an over-powered and over-priced ego-inflating halo (badge) car. In the USA, BMW charges a premium for its products, which is why it is considered a premium brand here. I would expect BMW, being a premium brand selling its vehicles at a premium price, to be able to afford to offer a range of drivetrains in its most popular sports sedan that includes a manual transmission option. But rather, BMW is behaving like Ford, which now doesn't even offer a manual transmission in its two smallest econo-sedans other than at the lowest trim level.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-16-2018 at 08:20 AM.. |
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12-16-2018, 08:22 AM | #35 | |
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12-16-2018, 08:25 AM | #36 |
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Good job picking stats that fleetingly support your argument before evaporating . It's actually 5m more cars that Kia sells. But most of them are tiny things sold to what Americans consider less-developed countries, and are not things they would ever buy.
If market volume is the predeterminant measure of quality, what does that say about Porsche? Or Alfa? <s******> |
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12-16-2018, 08:36 AM | #37 | |
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Not any more meant as an insult, as you basically calling everyone driving something other than a manual M car a "roundelhound", or trying to say the other poster just doesn't have an understanding what a manual transmission provides, unlike you. The way you were putting things just came off wrong in my book, but let's disregard that, I guess it could just be your style, I don't know you, and since we're on a forum I don't have the context of how it would actually come off if you've said it out loud. On the driving control aspect, I'd think if precise control would only be possible with manual transmissions, professional motorsport racing would be using manuals exclusively. I'm mainly talking about the comercially available autos that offer manual control over shifting in one way or another here, and I also get racing drivers don't just let the auto shift for them, but give their "manual inputs" into the process. I've only owned manual cars so far, so I get what you say you prefer about them. I'm just saying objectively looking at things nowadays, automatics are faster at shifts, better at fuel economy, and can be more comfortable if that tickles your fancy. That's performance, economy and practicality, at least one of which is somewhat of a factor for everyone on the market. And again, if what you value most and what you look for in your car is the control and engagement (please don't pick on this poor word again) that you feel only a manual is able to provide, that's perfectly well and understandable. In this regard, and to you, a manual will be superior "till the end of times". But that doesn't make them objectively outright the suprerior choice overall. And so it also doesn't mean anyone who drives an automatic couldn't be just as much an enthusiast as you, or that a 3-series with an automatic transmission "is not a proper 3-series", or BMW in general. I'm also with you on having the option to opt for the manual. Like it's been discussed in countless threads during countless discussions, it seems like the direction the market's going (customer uptake of manuals), it may not make it financially feasible or profitable to offer it on all models anymore, unfortunately. And unfortunately indeed, because either you want an auto or a manual, I think all can agree having the option to configure the car the way you want it is what everybody wants in the end. Last edited by KTN; 12-16-2018 at 08:55 AM.. |
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12-16-2018, 08:39 AM | #38 | |
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I'd argue the Mini is BMW's US sub-brand. In the USA, the Ford, Chevy, and RAM pickup trucks have a far more diverse market position and demand than BMW could ever dream of.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 08:49 AM | #39 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 09:31 AM | #40 | ||
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don't read this. too late...
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12-16-2018, 10:04 AM | #41 | |
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Even the MT gearbox makers like Getrag are having to semi automate MT to be competitive with AT on emission saving features. They have no option, as many of the features are so critical to reducing CO2 numbers. I can't see BMW wanting developments like advanced MT 'AHT' (Automated Hybrid Transmission) and AT in the same line up. Why bother if MT is no longer the simple user controlled transmission. It won't satisfy the purists, who want total control, having sailing mode and functions like traffic jam assist taking priority over user control. MT, (as we know it), just doesn't fit the model for current and future emission limits. The fact MT sales are falling anyway, helps the business model all the manufacturers have to follow. Don't under estimate how emissions are dominating available models. We are seeing reduced model ranges in Europe, simply due to the new WLTP test regime. |
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12-16-2018, 10:20 AM | #42 | |
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Less than 8 years ago BMW was paying the highest fines in the industry for not meeting US CAFE targets. They just passed the cost onto the customer, and the customer was willing to pay it.
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
Last edited by Efthreeoh; 12-16-2018 at 10:30 AM.. |
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12-16-2018, 10:26 AM | #43 | |
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A manual transmission can be set to "comfort", "sport", and "track" modes simply by the technique and speed at which you shift it; it doesn't need "modes", modes are for manumatics that try to behave like a real 3-pedal manual transmission. If you can money-shift it, it's a manual transmission. "Yeah, but NO ONE puts an automatic trans shift knob on a manual transmission."
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12-16-2018, 10:48 AM | #44 | ||
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Every vehicle (or aircraft) since the original is worse according to your logic. |
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