[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Vic do you have it on a M850? What kind of gains have you noticed?

Check sig

I have an M8 GC--- I have no empirical data but limeypride used an RC on his GC and on map 7 he ran a 10.6X quarter and 2.6X zero to 60 (valid draggy data). So assume about 3 tenths of second gain on the RC with the Comp Edition. He did have better fuel than me when he ran the tests (Washington State) vs my crap 91 octane. Im probably in the 10.7 or 10.8 range which is great. The hp/tq gains are worth the small price to pay and its so easy to install and uninstall on the M cars with the engine bay layout.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Vic do you have it on a M850? What kind of gains have you noticed?

No he has the m8. The m8 is very different for the chips. The m850i doesn't react to the chips the same way. Also the GTS Racechip has a dummy harness that can attach to make services much easier than a full removal if you want.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

GTS Black. it's more reliable. ask r33_RGSport to mail you one.

lol Really? Based on what? I've only had three JB4s in my life yet I've had 13 bimmers/M-cars and they all had JB4s in them. The reason being, it was reliable and just kept working so it was transferred from car to car to car to car. Two factors caused it to be 3 JB4s and not just the one: 1) transition from E to F chassis and 2) when I sold the lease on my 2nd F90, the new lessee wanted to keep the JB4 so he paid me for it.

Back on topic: having run both for a couple of weeks, I still have a JB4--I think that speaks for itself. I tested the two side-by-side. The GTS Black returns less power than its equiv JB4. The GTS Black got closer to the JB4 in my tests per the numbers Vic cited but that was following a few tweaks from Racechip. Perhaps a bit ironically, that tweak from Racechip was only possible because I had a JB4 and used it to obtain detailed engine telemetry which I sent them. Without a JB4, they can't do that.

The JB4 also has control over the electronic wastegates if ordered in that configuration--in my experience, this also leads to more power and better power delivery.

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by limeypride

lol Really? Based on what? I've only had three JB4s in my life yet I've had 13 bimmers/M-cars and they all had JB4s in them. The reason being, it was reliable and just kept working so it was transferred from car to car to car to car. Two factors caused it to be 3 JB4s and not just the one: 1) transition from E to F chassis and 2) when I sold the lease on my 2nd F90, the new lessee wanted to keep the JB4 so he paid me for it.

Back on topic: having run both for a couple of weeks, I still have a JB4--I think that speaks for itself. I tested the two side-by-side. The GTS Black returns less power than its equiv JB4. The GTS Black got closer to the JB4 in my tests per the numbers Vic cited but that was following a few tweaks from Racechip. Perhaps a bit ironically, that tweak from Racechip was only possible because I had a JB4 and used it to obtain detailed engine telemetry which I sent them. Without a JB4, they can't do that.

The JB4 also has control over the electronic wastegates if ordered in that configuration--in my experience, this also leads to more power and better power delivery.

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm a bit confused are you saying that there is a gts black I can buy that's further tuned for a m850? Better gains the ones listed on their website?

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm a bit confused are you saying that there is a gts black I can buy that's further tuned for a m850? Better gains the ones listed on their website?

When I got my RC "redone" (it was on the F90 M5) I believe Ben had to retune it for the M8 Comp Edition which should have the changed software.

Ben can chime in:

r33_RGSport

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm a bit confused are you saying that there is a gts black I can buy that's further tuned for a m850? Better gains the ones listed on their website?

No, I'm saying there is a JB4 that's better (objectively speaking because it returns greater acceleration).

// sorry, Ben.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Vic55

When I got my RC "redone" (it was on the F90 M5) I believe Ben had to retune it for the M8 Comp Edition which should have the changed software.

Ben can chime in:

r33_RGSport

M8 uses different map than F90 M5.

Originally Posted by limeypride

No, I'm saying there is a JB4 that's better (objectively speaking because it returns greater acceleration).

// sorry, Ben.

No worries. I just know how to deal with you now.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by r33_RGSport

M8 uses different map than F90 M5.



No worries. I just know how to deal with you now.

lol and Id bet he would be extra nice to you if you moved shop to Orlando!!!

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by Vic55

lol and Id bet he would be extra nice to you if you moved shop to Orlando!!!

Haha. Tough one there.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

lol Really? Based on what? I've only had three JB4s in my life yet I've had 13 bimmers/M-cars and they all had JB4s in them. The reason being, it was reliable and just kept working so it was transferred from car to car to car to car. Two factors caused it to be 3 JB4s and not just the one: 1) transition from E to F chassis and 2) when I sold the lease on my 2nd F90, the new lessee wanted to keep the JB4 so he paid me for it.

Back on topic: having run both for a couple of weeks, I still have a JB4--I think that speaks for itself. I tested the two side-by-side. The GTS Black returns less power than its equiv JB4. The GTS Black got closer to the JB4 in my tests per the numbers Vic cited but that was following a few tweaks from Racechip. Perhaps a bit ironically, that tweak from Racechip was only possible because I had a JB4 and used it to obtain detailed engine telemetry which I sent them. Without a JB4, they can't do that.

The JB4 also has control over the electronic wastegates if ordered in that configuration--in my experience, this also leads to more power and better power delivery.

@r33_RGSport and Vic55 can speak to this.

but I will say that it's been described as Apple IPhone vs Samsung Andriod. similar but different. one is more use friendly and bullet proof. the other is geared more towards professional IT folks. not to say that you can't use either.

I bought my 89 year old father an iPhone. if he had a car, I'd buy him a GTS Black.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

@r33_RGSport and Vic55 can speak to this.

but I will say that it's been described as Apple IPhone vs Samsung Andriod. similar but different. one is more use friendly and bullet proof. the other is geared more towards professional IT folks. not to say that you can't use either.

I bought my 89 year old father an iPhone. if he had a car, I'd buy him a GTS Black.

If all Im doing is plugging it in with a basic map for 91 octane, both units are the same to install. The JB4 can expand well beyond the RC and thats great for those who want to do more extensive modding but at the basic installation process(es) they are the same. JB4 probably gives a little more boost than map 7 of the RC thus the better numbers but its negligible at those levels to a street guy without a pre meditated set up.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

@r33_RGSport and Vic55 can speak to this.

but I will say that it's been described as Apple IPhone vs Samsung Andriod. similar but different. one is more use friendly and bullet proof. the other is geared more towards professional IT folks. not to say that you can't use either.

I bought my 89 year old father an iPhone. if he had a car, I'd buy him a GTS Black.

?

I provided actual data and you threw an analogy at me without a source. C'mon, dude—back it up with something if you're going to make such a claim.

Ben sells Racechips but he is objective to a fault so no bias there. However, he has limited experience with JB4s as far as I know. Feel free to correct me here, Ben.

Again, AFAIK, Vic has had one Racechip and zero JB4s so as much as I love both Vic and Ben, neither are particularly statistically compelling inputs to the reliability discussion you started.

I even ran the two side-by-side and posted the results... admittedly no reliability data there, though.

Seriously, though, man—you implicitly claimed the JB4 is unreliable and I can find nothing to back that up... I ask for something and... well, enough said up to this point.

I'm open-minded but facts not unsubstantiated opinions usually work better.

PS: I get the "ease of use" argument and it does hold true when comparing the advanced features... the JB4 is indeed powerful and complex because of it but it also does a helluva lot more. However, that ease of use argument doesn't hold when paired with the "set it and forget it" mentality since the JB4 requires no setup and defaults to map 1... so install it, do nothing more and you're done. The physical installation requirements when compared to the basic JB4 option are identical.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Vic55

If all Im doing is plugging it in with a basic map for 91 octane, both units are the same to install. The JB4 can expand well beyond the RC and thats great for those who want to do more extensive modding but at the basic installation process(es) they are the same. JB4 probably gives a little more boost than map 7 of the RC thus the better numbers but its negligible at those levels to a street guy without a pre meditated set up.

Agreed.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by limeypride

?

I provided actual data and you threw an analogy at me without a source. C'mon, dude—back it up with something if you're going to make such a claim.

Ben sells Racechips but he is objective to a fault so no bias there. However, he has limited experience with JB4s as far as I know. Feel free to correct me here, Ben.

Again, AFAIK, Vic has had one Racechip and zero JB4s so as much as I love both Vic and Ben, neither are particularly statistically compelling inputs to the reliability discussion you started.

I even ran the two side-by-side and posted the results... admittedly no reliability data there, though.

Seriously, though, man—you implicitly claimed the JB4 is unreliable and I can find nothing to back that up... I ask for something and... well, enough said up to this point.

I'm open-minded but facts not unsubstantiated opinions usually work better.

PS: the ease of use argument doesn't hold when paired with the set it and forget it mentality since the JB4 defaults to map 1... so install it, do nothing more and you're done. Installs when compared to the basic JB4 are identical.

This is correct, Ive only had one RC unit but with two different programs for the F90 M5 non CE and now the M8 GC CE. I have never used a JB4 but have tuned 7 of my 8 prior M's (the exception was the E39 M5) before these two with full ECU tunes.

I would have absolutely given the JB4 a shot but there were two issues back then in August of 2018: the JB4 was not available and Ben was selling the RC (not an issue but a benefit that I can reflect back on with a smile. So went with the RC and have no complaints for the 29 months I had the the F90 and 1 month or so with the F93. 30 months on full map albeit still safe and the F90 had it on with just a few hundred miles.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

?

I provided actual data and you threw an analogy at me without a source. C'mon, dude—back it up with something if you're going to make such a claim.

Ben sells Racechips but he is objective to a fault so no bias there. However, he has limited experience with JB4s as far as I know. Feel free to correct me here, Ben.

Again, AFAIK, Vic has had one Racechip and zero JB4s so as much as I love both Vic and Ben, neither are particularly statistically compelling inputs to the reliability discussion you started.

I even ran the two side-by-side and posted the results... admittedly no reliability data there, though.

Seriously, though, man—you implicitly claimed the JB4 is unreliable and I can find nothing to back that up... I ask for something and... well, enough said up to this point.

I'm open-minded but facts not unsubstantiated opinions usually work better.

PS: I get the "ease of use" argument and it does hold true when comparing the advanced features... the JB4 is indeed powerful and complex because of it but it also does a helluva lot more. However, that ease of use argument doesn't hold when paired with the "set it and forget it" mentality since the JB4 requires no setup and defaults to map 1... so install it, do nothing more and you're done. The physical installation requirements when compared to the basic JB4 option are identical.

It's coke or Pepsi. Do you like coke or Pepsi?
Personally I drink Coke but my wife drinks Pepsi.

[r33_RGSport]

Originally Posted by limeypride

?

I provided actual data and you threw an analogy at me without a source. C'mon, dude—back it up with something if you're going to make such a claim.

Ben sells Racechips but he is objective to a fault so no bias there. However, he has limited experience with JB4s as far as I know. Feel free to correct me here, Ben.

Again, AFAIK, Vic has had one Racechip and zero JB4s so as much as I love both Vic and Ben, neither are particularly statistically compelling inputs to the reliability discussion you started.

I even ran the two side-by-side and posted the results... admittedly no reliability data there, though.

Seriously, though, man—you implicitly claimed the JB4 is unreliable and I can find nothing to back that up... I ask for something and... well, enough said up to this point.

I'm open-minded but facts not unsubstantiated opinions usually work better.

PS: I get the "ease of use" argument and it does hold true when comparing the advanced features... the JB4 is indeed powerful and complex because of it but it also does a helluva lot more. However, that ease of use argument doesn't hold when paired with the "set it and forget it" mentality since the JB4 requires no setup and defaults to map 1... so install it, do nothing more and you're done. The physical installation requirements when compared to the basic JB4 option are identical.

The analogy is correct.

I have good experience and knowledge with JB4, hence they don't like me because I know too much.

JB4 has more room to tweak around and produce more out of the engine.
If you have time and willing to fiddle around, then JB4 is the piggyback for you.
But, if you are going this far, I personally would just jump to flash tune and will be much safer aside from getting flagged on the warranty.

RaceChip is much more simpler plug n play piggyback solution.

Between limeypride and Vic55 , I knew both of you for couple years by now.

Vic is more RaceChip guy since he just want something installed and just use it.

Limey is more JB4 guy where he will spend time to datalog and fine tune it to his liking.

For me, personally, either RaceChip or dyno tune.
I don't have time to fiddle around too much, otherwise all of you guys will be on my ass cuz I can't even reply your postings, or DM's, or email.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

It's coke or Pepsi. Do you like coke or Pepsi?
Personally I drink Coke but my wife drinks Pepsi.

Touché. But to have an opinion, surely you need to have tried one, the other or both?

Sorry, dude—but I'm not drinking any of that kool aid.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by limeypride

Touché. But to have an opinion, surely you need to have tried one, the other or both?

Sorry, dude—but I'm not drinking any of that kool aid.

not necessarily. I can tell you that a5 wagu beef is better than USDA prime. I don't need to eat it first.
I can tell you sushi grade ahi tuna from Japan is better than grocery store salmon.

but as r33_RGSport said: jb4 is programming, gts is plug and play.
it's that simple. and for the OP, if you have to ask which one to use - you need the plug and play one.

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

not necessarily. I can tell you that a5 wagu beef is better than USDA prime. I don't need to eat it first.
I can tell you sushi grade ahi tuna from Japan is better than grocery store salmon.

but as r33_RGSport said: jb4 is programming, gts is plug and play.
it's that simple. and for the OP, if you have to ask which one to use - you need the plug and play one.

Thanks for the great debate I think rc GTS is for me. I just want to plug and forget. Also r33_RGSport coded my car and is a great guy and a pleasure to deal with.

[limeypride]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

not necessarily. I can tell you that a5 wagu beef is better than USDA prime. I don't need to eat it first.
I can tell you sushi grade ahi tuna from Japan is better than grocery store salmon.

but as r33_RGSport said: jb4 is programming, gts is plug and play.
it's that simple. and for the OP, if you have to ask which one to use - you need the plug and play one.

Super! I'm glad you've convinced yourself. I prefer balanced, factual input, not empty analogies based on.... Wait, wait--are you actually defending your analogy at this point? Take Elsa's approach and Let It Go.

Anyhoo, the JB4 provides faster acceleration than the Racechip--period. I'd assert it's reliable, too. I've personally tested them both on the same car at the same time--they were quite literally stacked atop one another and I conducted back-to-back tests on the same day with the same setup and the same gas.

Neither required any SW configuration of any kind. However, for the Racechip was to compete with the JB4's map 1 default (and they're too close to call with a butt dyno when setup like this), it did need to be set to its most aggressive map... hence it is actually 1-step more than a JB4 (and that even rhymes so I'll begin work on a jingle immediately). Their respective installs are identical.

The Racechip is a great product and does as advertised. So does the JB4. Both appear to be reliable based on partial firsthand experience and Goo... I mean Bing research.

@OP: go with either, you'll be happy. Add Ben to the mix for the supply, install, coding and overall great buying experience and I'm with you--the Racechip makes most sense.

As for me and my unwitting pedestal moment here: I was trying to point out that the JB4 is a reliable product. How we got here... well. The thanks there goes to... Vic--yup, it was all Vic's fault.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Thanks for the great debate I think rc GTS is for me. I just want to plug and forget. Also r33_RGSport coded my car and is a great guy and a pleasure to deal with.

he coded mine twice and I agree. I've bought parts from him and he's been super Shipping quick and even processing a return for me. great to work with.

[RJC-1]

Ben / RGSport rocks!