[Mgrae456]

Hey guys let me start by saying I know nothing about tuning. I love my m850 have had it for over a year now and am thinking about tuning. I checked out racechips website also jb4. I also looked at the bootmod 3 app. After all that research I'm just more confused. What I want is performance gains without damaging the car. I guess that doesn't help much because that's the entire point of tuning. I guess any advice or experiences would much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Hey guys let me start by saying I know nothing about tuning. I love my m850 have had it for over a year now and am thinking about tuning. I checked out racechips website also jb4. I also looked at the bootmod 3 app. After all that research I'm just more confused. What I want is performance gains without damaging the car. I guess that doesn't help much because that's the entire point of tuning. I guess any advice or experiences would much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

You should speak to my friend FBMWWINS and others.

But be warned, unless you're in a 2019 m850i : you Can't ECU tune it because it's bench locked. But you can do a GTS black chip. I'd buy one from r33_RGSport I trust him.

ECU tune is the best, but Bmw locked them with the new software. And the new Bosh's DME, after 2021 are all completely locked out even from bench.


2019 = ECU tune is about $1200-$1500 in USD
2020 = need bench unlock. Approximately $200-300 USD from what I can see added cost and time
2021 = cannot unlock period.

GTS black will run about $750 but it only tricks the oxygen and boost sensors to add more boost and horsepower to top end on m850i.
In the m8 it provides torque and hp in the curve. But the stock m850i is tuned different and won't give you the same low end power and not much torque.

The ECU can also unlock the speed limiter governors and add pops and bangs and turn off the auto start stop permanently.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Hey guys let me start by saying I know nothing about tuning. I love my m850 have had it for over a year now and am thinking about tuning. I checked out racechips website also jb4. I also looked at the bootmod 3 app. After all that research I'm just more confused. What I want is performance gains without damaging the car. I guess that doesn't help much because that's the entire point of tuning. I guess any advice or experiences would much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Also if you go to Carbhan or Dinan; and pay $1500; they are supposed to provide a warranty.

Two caveats, one is that you're paying total $3000+ to void your warranty and substitute it for Carbhan. That means Carbhan has to be better than BMW, but they don't have nearly as many repair shops and more restrictions in repairs.
Also, for $3k, you can almost fix your own parts. It's rare to get a warranty problem for more than that out of pocket once you compare deductions and used parts.

But it's an option, and I'm probably going to use Carbhan.

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

You should speak to my friend FBMWWINS and others.

But be warned, unless you're in a 2019 m850i : you Can't ECU tune it because it's bench locked. But you can do a GTS black chip. I'd buy one from r33_RGSport I trust him.

ECU tune is the best, but Bmw locked them with the new software. And the new Bosh's DME, after 2021 are all completely locked out even from bench.


2019 = ECU tune is about $1200-$1500 in USD
2020 = need bench unlock. Approximately $200-300 USD from what I can see added cost and time
2021 = cannot unlock period.

GTS black will run about $750 but it only tricks the oxygen and boost sensors to add more boost and horsepower to top end on m850i.
In the m8 it provides torque and hp in the curve. But the stock m850i is tuned different and won't give you the same low end power and not much torque.

The ECU can also unlock the speed limiter governors and add pops and bangs and turn off the auto start stop permanently.

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

You should speak to my friend FBMWWINS and others.

But be warned, unless you're in a 2019 m850i : you Can't ECU tune it because it's bench locked. But you can do a GTS black chip. I'd buy one from r33_RGSport I trust him.

ECU tune is the best, but Bmw locked them with the new software. And the new Bosh's DME, after 2021 are all completely locked out even from bench.


2019 = ECU tune is about $1200-$1500 in USD
2020 = need bench unlock. Approximately $200-300 USD from what I can see added cost and time
2021 = cannot unlock period.

GTS black will run about $750 but it only tricks the oxygen and boost sensors to add more boost and horsepower to top end on m850i.
In the m8 it provides torque and hp in the curve. But the stock m850i is tuned different and won't give you the same low end power and not much torque.

The ECU can also unlock the speed limiter governors and add pops and bangs and turn off the auto start stop permanently.

Mine is a 2019. Thanks for all the info. How about a jb4 do you know anything about them?

[LSM]

But if you lease with a voided warranty even if Dinan and Carbahn match warranty will BMW even accept the car back??

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by LSM

But if you lease with a voided warranty even if Dinan and Carbahn match warranty will BMW even accept the car back??

Yes, they don't check software on return lease. Also, you can get any dealerships to flash everything back to stock for about $450.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Mine is a 2019. Thanks for all the info. How about a jb4 do you know anything about them?

Yes. Mine is a 2019 too. And jb4 is like GTS race chip. Both piggyback and very similar. Some say GTS is better, but I think it's personal opinion.

I've raced my 2019 and it drops hard at 100-120 mph in the top of the rpm scale. It desperately needs an ECU tune to open up the rpm and add power at the top end.

If you're just driving in the streets under 100 mph; you're probably never noticed any difference.
If you punch it hard and need more turbo boost (watch your gauges in sport display mode); then get a JB4 or GTS chip.

If you're racing, get a bootmod3 or Dinan or Carbhan or DME tune for a real ECU tune.

[FBMWWINS]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Hey guys let me start by saying I know nothing about tuning. I love my m850 have had it for over a year now and am thinking about tuning. I checked out racechips website also jb4. I also looked at the bootmod 3 app. After all that research I'm just more confused. What I want is performance gains without damaging the car. I guess that doesn't help much because that's the entire point of tuning. I guess any advice or experiences would much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

There are essentially 2 types of tunes: piggyback vs. flash (ECU) tune.

BM3 from PTF is for me (based on MY experience with my previous cars - N55 and N63TU engines) THE option out there if you want a "self-service" tune. Compared to the recent past, when there was no need to take out your DME unit to unlock it, or hooking up to it in order to do so, things for us car enthusiasts have gotten a little bit more "complicated". For example the BM3 flashtune can be used on an M850i MY 2019, BUT the DME must be unlocked prior to applying the tune. This means it cannot be unlocked via OBD while applying the flashtune, but you must either send the DME to them before, or drive to a carshop to get the DME unlocked for you. Only AFTER that you are able to apply the BM3. It still remains a great option in my opinion because regardless of what flashtune you use, the DME must be unlocked else it will not work.

Piggybacks are cheaper, easy to install (for the most part), map changes can be done on the fly and they have decent advanced safety features. Though a flashtune is generally more customizable, more precise and will usually yield more. JB4 and GTS RACECHIP are very good and reputable examples of piggyback options with proven records and solidity as well as good performance. I am sure a couple of forum members running JB4 will tell you how good that is.

I suggest you google or read around for more details and pros vs. cons with regard to both.

Be aware a flashtune will get ERASED by any BMW software update - whether it be a remote OTA upgrade or a visit to the dealership where for a given reason they consider and perform an update and thus apply the latest software, including to the DME. The piggyback will still perform its duties untouched even after the car has received newer software so it's "update proof" which is a PLUS of course.

I think with the guys at PTF and their BM3 for basically any BMW model you cannot go wrong as their experience and quality of their products (tunes) is widely recognized.

As far as my MY 2019 M850i goes, I decided to go for a custom tune this time by JD Performance in Germany because it is cheaper than the BM3 AND they unlocked and tuned the DME in one go and single move so hasslefree for me. Of course I need to go back to them everytime I update my car but that is a few hours trip to Germany that I always enjoy very much and usually combine with a long get-way weekend accompanied by some limitless cruises on the German Autobahn. With JD Performance flashtune my M850i peaked ar 730 HP and 914 NM which corrected translated into 714 HP and 890 NM - WITHOUT any hardware mods done to the car.

If you want a custom flashtune, check who offers that in your area and get well informed and documented. I would only get my car "prepared" by some very experienced company and someone who DEVELOP THEIR OWN tuning files/programming! If you go the flashtune path, the experts performing that will both unlock your DME and apply the tune in the same process.

Finally as for reliability, there is no 100% such as risk-free! There will always be some risks associated with tuning and the chance of warranty void if the dealer "notices" it.... but as they say no risk no fun. I think as long as you drive a tune or set the maps within the advised settings and parameters, those risks are very much minimized and the rest comes down to some basic precautions such as not pulling hard when engine is cold or letting your turbos come to rest after a long drive by waiting a couple of minutes before putting the engine off.

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

There are essentially 2 types of tunes: piggyback vs. flash (ECU) tune.

BM3 from PTF is for me (based on MY experience with my previous cars - N55 and N63TU engines) THE option out there if you want a "self-service" tune. Compared to the recent past, when there was no need to take out your DME unit to unlock it, or hooking up to it in order to do so, things for us car enthusiasts have gotten a little bit more "complicated". For example the BM3 flashtune can be used on an M850i MY 2019, BUT the DME must be unlocked prior to applying the tune. This means it cannot be unlocked via OBD while applying the flashtune, but you must either send the DME to them before, or drive to a carshop to get the DME unlocked for you. Only AFTER that you are able to apply the BM3. It still remains a great option in my opinion because regardless of what flashtune you use, the DME must be unlocked else it will not work.

Piggybacks are cheaper, easy to install (for the most part), map changes can be done on the fly and they have decent advanced safety features. Though a flashtune is generally more customizable, more precise and will usually yield more. JB4 and GTS RACECHIP are very good and reputable examples of piggyback options with proven records and solidity as well as good performance. I am sure a couple of forum members running JB4 will tell you how good that is.

I suggest you google or read around for more details and pros vs. cons with regard to both.

Be aware a flashtune will get ERASED by any BMW software update - whether it be a remote OTA upgrade or a visit to the dealership where for a given reason they consider and perform an update and thus apply the latest software, including to the DME. The piggyback will still perform its duties untouched even after the car has received newer software so it's "update proof" which is a PLUS of course.

I think with the guys at PTF and their BM3 for basically any BMW model you cannot go wrong as their experience and quality of their products (tunes) is widely recognized.

As far as my MY 2019 M850i goes, I decided to go for a custom tune this time by JD Performance in Germany because it is cheaper than the BM3 AND they unlocked and tuned the DME in one go and single move so hasslefree for me. Of course I need to go back to them everytime I update my car but that is a few hours trip to Germany that I always enjoy very much and usually combine with a long get-way weekend accompanied by some limitless cruises on the German Autobahn. With JD Performance flashtune my M850i peaked ar 730 HP and 914 NM which corrected translated into 714 HP and 890 NM - WITHOUT any hardware mods done to the car.

If you want a custom flashtune, check who offers that in your area and get well informed and documented. I would only get my car "prepared" by some very experienced company and someone who DEVELOP THEIR OWN tuning files/programming! If you go the flashtune path, the experts performing that will both unlock your DME and apply the tune in the same process.

Finally as for reliability, there is no 100% such as risk-free! There will always be some risks associated with tuning and the chance of warranty void if the dealer "notices" it.... but as they say no risk no fun. I think as long as you drive a tune or set the maps within the advised settings and parameters, those risks are very much minimized and the rest comes down to some basic precautions such as not pulling hard when engine is cold or letting your turbos come to rest after a long drive by waiting a couple of minutes before putting the engine off.

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

There are essentially 2 types of tunes: piggyback vs. flash (ECU) tune.

BM3 from PTF is for me (based on MY experience with my previous cars - N55 and N63TU engines) THE option out there if you want a "self-service" tune. Compared to the recent past, when there was no need to take out your DME unit to unlock it, or hooking up to it in order to do so, things for us car enthusiasts have gotten a little bit more "complicated". For example the BM3 flashtune can be used on an M850i MY 2019, BUT the DME must be unlocked prior to applying the tune. This means it cannot be unlocked via OBD while applying the flashtune, but you must either send the DME to them before, or drive to a carshop to get the DME unlocked for you. Only AFTER that you are able to apply the BM3. It still remains a great option in my opinion because regardless of what flashtune you use, the DME must be unlocked else it will not work.

Piggybacks are cheaper, easy to install (for the most part), map changes can be done on the fly and they have decent advanced safety features. Though a flashtune is generally more customizable, more precise and will usually yield more. JB4 and GTS RACECHIP are very good and reputable examples of piggyback options with proven records and solidity as well as good performance. I am sure a couple of forum members running JB4 will tell you how good that is.

I suggest you google or read around for more details and pros vs. cons with regard to both.

Be aware a flashtune will get ERASED by any BMW software update - whether it be a remote OTA upgrade or a visit to the dealership where for a given reason they consider and perform an update and thus apply the latest software, including to the DME. The piggyback will still perform its duties untouched even after the car has received newer software so it's "update proof" which is a PLUS of course.

I think with the guys at PTF and their BM3 for basically any BMW model you cannot go wrong as their experience and quality of their products (tunes) is widely recognized.

As far as my MY 2019 M850i goes, I decided to go for a custom tune this time by JD Performance in Germany because it is cheaper than the BM3 AND they unlocked and tuned the DME in one go and single move so hasslefree for me. Of course I need to go back to them everytime I update my car but that is a few hours trip to Germany that I always enjoy very much and usually combine with a long get-way weekend accompanied by some limitless cruises on the German Autobahn. With JD Performance flashtune my M850i peaked ar 730 HP and 914 NM which corrected translated into 714 HP and 890 NM - WITHOUT any hardware mods done to the car.

If you want a custom flashtune, check who offers that in your area and get well informed and documented. I would only get my car "prepared" by some very experienced company and someone who DEVELOP THEIR OWN tuning files/programming! If you go the flashtune path, the experts performing that will both unlock your DME and apply the tune in the same process.

Finally as for reliability, there is no 100% such as risk-free! There will always be some risks associated with tuning and the chance of warranty void if the dealer "notices" it.... but as they say no risk no fun. I think as long as you drive a tune or set the maps within the advised settings and parameters, those risks are very much minimized and the rest comes down to some basic precautions such as not pulling hard when engine is cold or letting your turbos come to rest after a long drive by waiting a couple of minutes before putting the engine off.

Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I think I have some research to do.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

You should speak to my friend FBMWWINS and others.


2019 = ECU tune is about $1200-$1500 in USD
2020 = need bench unlock. Approximately $200-300 USD from what I can see added cost and time
2021 = cannot unlock period.

Isn't there a build date on the 2020s as well that puts the Bosh's DME in play and hence a no go as well just like the 2021s?

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

Isn't there a build date on the 2020s as well that puts the Bosh's DME in play and hence a no go as well just like the 2021s?

yeah, it's late in the cycle. like June or July.

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yeah, it's late in the cycle. like June or July.

That's what I thought as technically my 10/2019 build date for my 2020 does not have the Bosch DME aspect so I should be good to go but those late in the cycle of 2020 are screwed just like the 2021s.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

That's what I thought as technically my 10/2019 build date for my 2020 does not have the Bosch DME aspect so I should be good to go but those late in the cycle of 2020 are screwed just like the 2021s.

yep, exactly- you're keeping up with it. planning an ecu tune?

[bloozemanAZ]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yep, exactly- you're keeping up with it. planning an ecu tune?

I'm considering it but will likely sit on the fence until I potentially buy out the lease and pass the 4-year warranty mark (no way the garage queen thanks to COVID-19 is going to see 50K miles before 4-years).

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by bloozemanAZ

I'm considering it but will likely sit on the fence until I potentially buy out the lease and pass the 4-year warranty mark (no way the garage queen thanks to COVID-19 is going to see 50K miles before 4-years).

for sure. that's what is pushing my choices. if it's not going to get 20k miles, I might as well punch it !

[FBMWWINS]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

yeah, it's late in the cycle. like June or July.

Yes that's that certainly from 07.2020 production onwards though some produced 1-2 months before might be affected (locked) too. My tuner in Germany said that some M8s brought to them could not be unlocked let alone tuned at all and that these had earlier production dates (such as 04-2020 or 05-2020). So it might be similar or same on M850ies too where anything produced until 03.2020 should be a "safe bet". Generally though 07.2020 production is the "cut" to consider between lockable and not.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

Yes that's that certainly from 07.2020 production onwards though some produced 1-2 months before might be affected (locked) too. My tuner in Germany said that some M8s brought to them could not be unlocked let alone tuned at all and that these had earlier production dates (such as 04-2020 or 05-2020). So it might be similar or same on M850ies too where anything produced until 03.2020 should be a "safe bet". Generally though 07.2020 production is the "cut" to consider between lockable and not.

thanks for the info!

Definitely makes me glad I got my 2019 ... might keep it a while!

[FBMWWINS]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

thanks for the info!

Definitely makes me glad I got my 2019 ... might keep it a while!

Great point and it makes me consider the very same thing too, namely keeping it over a long period (ok I have got mine not for that long) instead of going for a recent M8 (though the M8 stock/not tuned is a monster already). It's just that my M850i, especially with the tune, makes me more than smile everytime I drive it regardless of the driven speed (the extra power vs. stock is sooooo noticeable in every instance).

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by FBMWWINS

Great point and it makes me consider the very same thing too, namely keeping it over a long period (ok I have got mine not for that long) instead of going for a recent M8 (though the M8 stock/not tuned is a monster already). It's just that my M850i, especially with the tune, makes me more than smile everytime I drive it regardless of the driven speed (the extra power vs. stock is sooooo noticeable in every instance).

Even though my car is a 2019 being that it's a lease I'm leaning towards a racechip or Jb4 any feedback on which one would be appreciated.

[Resjudicata]

Originally Posted by Mgrae456

Even though my car is a 2019 being that it's a lease I'm leaning towards a racechip or Jb4 any feedback on which one would be appreciated.

GTS Black. it's more reliable. ask r33_RGSport to mail you one.

[Vic55]

Originally Posted by Resjudicata

GTS Black. it's more reliable. ask r33_RGSport to mail you one.

Both are reliable as technically they do the same thing at the basic modification level. JB4 can be adjusted deeper for fuels and bolts on's which creates the chance of issues enginewise (pushing the limits).

I have RC and its what I like to call "plug and play and walk away"- its the simple easy fix for a more hp and gains in zero to 60 and trap speeds plus 60-130 times.

[Mgrae456]

Originally Posted by Vic55

Both are reliable as technically they do the same thing at the basic modification level. JB4 can be adjusted deeper for fuels and bolts on's which creates the chance of issues enginewise (pushing the limits).

I have RC and its what I like to call "plug and play and walk away"- its the simple easy fix for a more hp and gains in zero to 60 and trap speeds plus 60-130 times.

Originally Posted by Vic55

Both are reliable as technically they do the same thing at the basic modification level. JB4 can be adjusted deeper for fuels and bolts on's which creates the chance of issues enginewise (pushing the limits).

I have RC and its what I like to call "plug and play and walk away"- its the simple easy fix for a more hp and gains in zero to 60 and trap speeds plus 60-130 times.

Vic do you have it on a M850? What kind of gains have you noticed?