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      11-29-2020, 03:57 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Wow, that's not good. I asked my tech at the dealership (he's one of their best) months ago and was told they would not.

I have a BDC (Body Domain Controller) fault affecting the "driver readiness" that requires "programming" to correct but I'm scared to have anything done that might affect the ECU and told the dealer to let it be. I am experiencing no issues other than an occasional "vehicle will turn off soon" message which goes away quickly after a 1/4 mile of driving, and my battery trickle charger is acting weirdly at times (thinking they're related). I started the 850 yesterday and it roars, even crackles and pops after blipping the gas in comfort mode...don't want to lose that!

Are you familiar with the BDC?

Thanks
If per BMW, your BDC ECU is the one causing the issue, it would be interesting to see the error ISTA D shows. If BMW said that the BDC has issue/s and needs a software update to resolve them, it makes sense to me. Since the BDC is such a centrally critical ecu, it might have dependencies (I usually flash all ecus so it matters less to me which ones), the dealer would most likely do the same meaning they would not (and makes NO sense if you are on older IStep Level) just flash one single ECU but rather the whole car. One exception I can tell you out of experience is when the JBE ecu failed on my 2007 E92 335i. Back then my BMW dealer in Italy replaced the JBE and flashed the JBE only leaving other ECUs intact. Probably there wasn't much newer software anymore and/or there were no dependecies so the JBE could be flashed as the lonestar.
As the dealer confirmed to you, programming will be necessary in order to eliminate this "annoyance". Given it is the BDC module and its importance, I would personally opt for the update but that is my viewpoint.
Ultimately and rightly, it is your decision as to whether you want the issue solved and are "prepared" to sacrifice on the for many "glorious sound" or want to keep it in the current state (with great sound especially) thus willing to put up with that error and anything else which may arise as a consequence (as you say trickle charger acting weird and the like).
Of course an update brings other benefits such as some of the latest tech which just like magic gets introduced/activated for free even on 2019 models since they share the same hardware (MY2019-2020). Fact is noone can and will force you to upgrade.
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      11-29-2020, 04:52 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by FBMWWINS View Post
If per BMW, your BDC ECU is the one causing the issue, it would be interesting to see the error ISTA D shows. If BMW said that the BDC has issue/s and needs a software update to resolve them, it makes sense to me. Since the BDC is such a centrally critical ecu, it might have dependencies (I usually flash all ecus so it matters less to me which ones), the dealer would most likely do the same meaning they would not (and makes NO sense if you are on older IStep Level) just flash one single ECU but rather the whole car. One exception I can tell you out of experience is when the JBE ecu failed on my 2007 E92 335i. Back then my BMW dealer in Italy replaced the JBE and flashed the JBE only leaving other ECUs intact. Probably there wasn't much newer software anymore and/or there were no dependecies so the JBE could be flashed as the lonestar.
As the dealer confirmed to you, programming will be necessary in order to eliminate this "annoyance". Given it is the BDC module and its importance, I would personally opt for the update but that is my viewpoint.
Ultimately and rightly, it is your decision as to whether you want the issue solved and are "prepared" to sacrifice on the for many "glorious sound" or want to keep it in the current state (with great sound especially) thus willing to put up with that error and anything else which may arise as a consequence (as you say trickle charger acting weird and the like).
Of course an update brings other benefits such as some of the latest tech which just like magic gets introduced/activated for free even on 2019 models since they share the same hardware (MY2019-2020). Fact is noone can and will force you to upgrade.
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      11-29-2020, 05:15 PM   #47
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They just indicate a generic fault but we do not see the actual fault code returned by their short test. Based on that code, the BMW technician dealing with the car should know what to do next especially after querying ISTA D (the official BMW diagnostic software) for a service plan. At least that is the standard procedure. So my "guess" is if they officially advised on programming, they found no hardware issues (the ECU should thus be fine) but rather a software related bug as we commonly know them outside of the car world too.
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      11-29-2020, 05:20 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Just want to clarify, are you saying the OTA update also affected exhaust sound? OTA updates should have no effect on the exhaust sounds.
Yep as the OTA is designed to absolutely replace the need for a dealer to apply the updates. Most are just point releases, e.g., my 11/2019.55 to 11/2019.70 in which it absolutely updated an ECU to neuter the original exhaust sound. We've even had a couple of postings from forum members whom have received an entire iDrive release via OTA, e.g., 11/2019.X to 07/2020.X. In fact Ozzie8 is currently watching the paint dry for a full release upgrade while the car gets the code transferred from the Connected App on his cell phone.
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      11-29-2020, 05:33 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Wow, that's not good. I asked my tech at the dealership (he's one of their best) months ago and was told they would not.

I started the 850 yesterday and it roars, even crackles and pops after blipping the gas in comfort mode...don't want to lose that!

Are you familiar with the BDC?

Thanks
Unfortunately most of the techs do not understand the OTA process as that is outside of their realm of expertise in the software world. The 8-series was the first to introduce the capability with the 2019s but more series got it with the 2020s. In the high tech manufacturing world we've been doing it for over a decade prior to it hitting the automobile world.

In fact back in 2016 at MSI we started pushing full updates to our remote "command center" and network installations to eliminate the need for field service technicians to upgrade them. At the time the field techs viewed it as an attempt to replace them but that was never the goal as they still are 100% required from a break/fix perspective. The same goes for BMW as software is perhaps roughly 15% max of what keeps the car running. Flip that to Tesla (or any true EV) and then it becomes a game changer.

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      11-29-2020, 05:45 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by FBMWWINS View Post

They just indicate a generic fault but we do not see the actual fault code returned by their short test. Based on that code, the BMW technician dealing with the car should know what to do next especially after querying ISTA D (the official BMW diagnostic software) for a service plan. At least that is the standard procedure. So my "guess" is if they officially advised on programming, they found no hardware issues (the ECU should thus be fine) but rather a software related bug as we commonly know them outside of the car world too.
Agreed, i.e., without a specific fault code mentioned they are just falling back on the Windows ctrl-alt-del solution but in this case that's reprogramming. Software bugs can be significant or innocuous and in this case it just might be the latter producing the "vehicle will shutdown soon" message.
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      11-29-2020, 05:54 PM   #51
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Good points in post nr. 49 Blooze. My experience also shows that you need to talk to them for a few minutes and already know whether or not you are in the right place. When a SA told me they charge 600 Euro for flashing the whole car, it was clear to me I would go somewhere else where I only paid 1/4 of that price. In some cases (like with wife's G02 and my M850i) the dealer did it for free (one was in Germany, the other here in Switzerland). On another occasion and BMW dealer, back when my knowledge wasn't sufficient beyond simple coding, other than charging a minimal amount, they actually provided me lots of information and detailed stuff which got me more and more interested in the subject thus pushing me eventually to explore further. As many here already said, keeping friend with you own SA helps but they must be competent else there is little or no gain. In general, though trained, they aren't as acquainted or as prepared as they should be. On the other side of the coin, call me old-fashioned but I do not like someone "injecting" software into my car remotely without actually knowing what is being updated. I like to control the process myself and many others in the BMW community do too. I am glad a lot of self-service can be done with our bimmers not sure the same goes for other brands. Despite them not being perfect, I wouldn't trade them for any other brand/s.
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      11-29-2020, 05:59 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by FBMWWINS View Post

They just indicate a generic fault but we do not see the actual fault code returned by their short test. Based on that code, the BMW technician dealing with the car should know what to do next especially after querying ISTA D (the official BMW diagnostic software) for a service plan. At least that is the standard procedure. So my "guess" is if they officially advised on programming, they found no hardware issues (the ECU should thus be fine) but rather a software related bug as we commonly know them outside of the car world too.
Thanks, will correcting the software bug necessitate an update thereby affecting my exhaust? I've asked my dealer to look into the exhaust neutering and they have been mum...
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      11-29-2020, 06:01 PM   #53
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Unfortunately most of the techs do not understand the OTA process as that is outside of their realm of expertise in the software world. The 8-series was the first to introduce the capability with the 2019s but more series got it with the 2020s. In the high tech manufacturing world we've been doing it for nearly a decade prior to it hitting the automobile world.

In fact back in 2016 at MSI we started pushing full updates to our remote "command center" and network installations to eliminate the need for field service technicians to upgrade them. At the time the field techs viewed it as an attempt to replace them but that was never the goal as they still are 100% required from a break/fix perspective. The same goes for BMW as software is perhaps roughly 15% max of what keeps the car running. Flip that to Tesla (or any true EV) and then it becomes a game changer.
Thanks. It's so frustrating when the customer learns more about the issue on the net than the dealer is even aware of. I was very tempted to update but will wait for ozzie8 to report back...fingers crossed for him!
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      11-29-2020, 06:03 PM   #54
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Yep as the OTA is designed to absolutely replace the need for a dealer to apply the updates. Most are just point releases, e.g., my 11/2019.55 to 11/2019.70 in which it absolutely updated an ECU to neuter the original exhaust sound. We've even had a couple of postings from forum members whom have received an entire iDrive release via OTA, e.g., 11/2019.X to 07/2020.X. In fact Ozzie8 is currently watching the paint dry for a full release upgrade while the car gets the code transferred from the Connected App on his cell phone.
UGH
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      11-29-2020, 06:04 PM   #55
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Agreed, i.e., without a specific fault code mentioned they are just falling back on the Windows ctrl-alt-del solution but in this case that's reprogramming. Software bugs can be significant or innocuous and in this case it just might be the latter producing the "vehicle will shutdown soon" message.
Yes it may be innocuous but I would be very annoyed by that considering the perfectionist I am when it comes to my baby car.
Not sure BMW did that (they might have not) but I was thinking actually re-coding the ECU (VO code ecu) would be worth a try and take maximum 5 minutes including all the preparations and the procedure itself which would last 15-20 seconds. Now if they mean flash/update ecu when using the word "programming" then in his case they will need to flash the complete car for the other ecus' dependencies and not only (old IStep Level as well).
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      11-29-2020, 06:21 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by FBMWWINS View Post
Yes it may be innocuous but I would be very annoyed by that considering the perfectionist I am when it comes to my baby car.
Not sure BMW did that (they might have not) but I was thinking actually re-coding the ECU (VO code ecu) would be worth a try and take maximum 5 minutes including all the preparations and the procedure itself which would last 15-20 seconds. Now if they mean flash/update ecu when using the word "programming" then in his case they will need to flash the complete car for the other ecus' dependencies and not only (old IStep Level as well).
Absolutely agree as when I got the "low coolant" alert with the warning on engine damage it obviously freaked me out. To that point whom would want a message stating that "vehicle will shutdown soon" message innocuous bug or not? I too am a perfectionist (to the chagrin of my wife) and ultimately will need to get my feet wet in the world of BMW flashing/coding, etc. just like yourself as I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands vs relying on my SA and my dealer's techs. That said I have nothing but goodwill with my SA as he made it so for my update to 07/2020.60 with no static whatsoever once I explained it was a feature enhancement available to all iDrive 7 owners.
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      11-29-2020, 06:30 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Thanks, will correcting the software bug necessitate an update thereby affecting my exhaust? I've asked my dealer to look into the exhaust neutering and they have been mum...
For the most part all have been mum as I'm guessing they are none the wiser to the updates. We have at least one forum member confirming from their SA that it is intentional and referred to as codename "X" (can't state it as I promised limeypride I would never refer to it again). The bottom line is whether a SA or tech knows it exists or not is BMW is absolutely applying updates to neuter the original glorious exhaust of the M850i due to about 12 states having laws on the books and they're using that as the lowest common denominator.
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      11-29-2020, 06:33 PM   #58
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For the most part all have been mum as I'm guessing they are none the wiser to the updates. We have at least one forum member confirming from their SA that it is intentional and referred to as codename "X" (can't state it as I promised limeypride I would never refer to it again). The bottom line is whether a SA or tech knows it exists or not is BMW is absolutely applying updates to neuter the original glorious exhaust of the M850i due to about 12 states having laws on the books and they're using that as the lowest common denominator.
Thanks for this. Do we know if it's affecting only vehicles in those 12 states or all 50? Any other marques doing this all well?
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      11-29-2020, 06:37 PM   #59
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Thanks, will correcting the software bug necessitate an update thereby affecting my exhaust? I've asked my dealer to look into the exhaust neutering and they have been mum...
It depends as mentioned in a previous post. We cannot be sure BMW did it, but I was thinking actually re-coding the BDC ECU (Vehicle Order code ecu) would be worth a try and take maximum 5 minutes including all the preparations and the procedure itself which would last 15-20 seconds. In a few words this is equal to resetting the ecu as per the good ol' saying "have you turned it off and on again?"
Now if they mean flash/update ecu when using the word "programming" then they would usually flash the complete car for the other ecus' dependencies and not only (old IStep Level as well). You could however ask your dealer for this detail and say to them whether "they can only update the BDC ecu without touching anything else" and if there are any consequences in doing so vs. what they recommend - just to hear their official version. Updating the BDC probably takes somewhere between 10 and 20 minutes only whereas the MGU headunit can take a whole hour for example.
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      11-29-2020, 06:44 PM   #60
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Absolutely agree as when I got the "low coolant" alert with the warning on engine damage it obviously freaked me out. To that point whom would want a message stating that "vehicle will shutdown soon" message innocuous bug or not? I too am a perfectionist (to the chagrin of my wife) and ultimately will need to get my feet wet in the world of BMW flashing/coding, etc. just like yourself as I prefer to keep my destiny in my own hands vs relying on my SA and my dealer's techs. That said I have nothing but goodwill with my SA as he made it so for my update to 07/2020.60 with no static whatsoever once I explained it was a feature enhancement available to all iDrive 7 owners.
I am also guilty on all counts including being a perfectionist at the frustration of the wifey, although after 20 years she's become one of late (yes gents it can happen ). Getting the message my vehicle will shut off when driving is beyond disconcerting but thankfully if the vehicle is driven often or kept on the trickle it does not occur. The weird thing is my CTEK made BMW 8 step trickle charger is doing weird things even after replacement and I'm betting the software bug is creating some kind of occasional current draw, thankfully even w/o being on the charger the car cranks quickly and fires right up.
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      11-29-2020, 06:52 PM   #61
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Thanks for this. Do we know if it's affecting only vehicles in those 12 states or all 50? Any other marques doing this all well?
Sorry for the confusion but yes the lowest common denominator is hitting all of the US. Here in AZ the only law on the books requires a "working muffler" vs the others that have a dBA limitation regulations. Hence, my M850i was neutered and understandably as it would be a logistical nightmare on BMW's part to try and isolate the updates to owners in specific states. In fact as far as I understand BMW views the entire US as a region so anything coded for it will get applied universally across the board.
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      11-29-2020, 06:53 PM   #62
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It depends as mentioned in a previous post. We cannot be sure BMW did it, but I was thinking actually re-coding the BDC ECU (Vehicle Order code ecu) would be worth a try and take maximum 5 minutes including all the preparations and the procedure itself which would last 15-20 seconds. In a few words this is equal to resetting the ecu as per the good ol' saying "have you turned it off and on again?"
Now if they mean flash/update ecu when using the word "programming" then they would usually flash the complete car for the other ecus' dependencies and not only (old IStep Level as well). You could however ask your dealer for this detail and say to them whether "they can only update the BDC ecu without touching anything else" and if there are any consequences in doing so vs. what they recommend - just to hear their official version. Updating the BDC probably takes somewhere between 10 and 20 minutes only whereas the MGU headunit can take a whole hour for example.
Oh they're gonna luv me if I ask/send them this lol...they just seem to hate it when they have uber informed customers, kinda like some surgeons when their patients have really done their homework (no offense to any physicians here but it happens far too often). Back on topic, I will send this to my SA and have him share it with the tech and see how it goes. Anything you want to add or edit b/f I do? Thanks
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      11-30-2020, 07:42 PM   #63
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Well after a number of weeks of slow progress my car has officially upgraded to iDrive 7.

I've lost all of my coding, via Bimmercode, so that will be a job for the weekend.

Very pleased to say the PWPS's are still working a treat and I'm still startling a few people sitting outside at the local cafe.

One feature - which seems new to me - is the album carousel for my music. Love it. While I've got a stack of playlists, sometimes its nice to listen to an album or give passengers a chance to go through the carousel and choose.

I'm just exploring what the BMW assistant is able to do and will revert if I uncover anything exciting.
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      11-30-2020, 08:05 PM   #64
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Well after a number of weeks of slow progress my car has officially upgraded to iDrive 7.

I've lost all of my coding, via Bimmercode, so that will be a job for the weekend.

Very pleased to say the PWPS's are still working a treat and I'm still startling a few people sitting outside at the local cafe.

One feature - which seems new to me - is the album carousel for my music. Love it. While I've got a stack of playlists, sometimes its nice to listen to an album or give passengers a chance to go through the carousel and choose.

I'm just exploring what the BMW assistant is able to do and will revert if I uncover anything exciting.
Nice the PWPS's are still in their glorious full effect, this makes sense from what I've been told by my dealer re OTA updates. Are you getting the PWPS's even in comfort mode? I am.
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      12-01-2020, 09:25 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Ozzie8 View Post
Well after a number of weeks of slow progress my car has officially upgraded to iDrive 7.

I've lost all of my coding, via Bimmercode, so that will be a job for the weekend.

Very pleased to say the PWPS's are still working a treat and I'm still startling a few people sitting outside at the local cafe.

One feature - which seems new to me - is the album carousel for my music. Love it. While I've got a stack of playlists, sometimes its nice to listen to an album or give passengers a chance to go through the carousel and choose.

I'm just exploring what the BMW assistant is able to do and will revert if I uncover anything exciting.
What version did you end up without the upgrade. Interesting on the album carousel as it was on my original 11/2019.55.
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      12-01-2020, 09:28 AM   #66
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Nice the PWPS's are still in their glorious full effect, this makes sense from what I've been told by my dealer re OTA updates. Are you getting the PWPS's even in comfort mode? I am.
There definitely still there in Sport and Sport Plus even on my 07/2020.60 but just not as pronounced. It will be interesting to see if they still exist for Ozzie8 in Comfort. However, his mileage may completely vary given he's in a unique region that BMW may not be targeting whatsoever for the exhaust reduction.
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