[naiza3k]

Originally Posted by snareman

Thanks, yea, the M8 is amazing but, the challenge comes in 3 years or so when there is no more M8 and I have the itch to get something new and exciting.

Haha cross that bridge when you get there, 3 years! 😂

[snareman]

Originally Posted by KONG991TT

911 owner here. I will admit, I'm a P car guy. I've seen the light. I've got a 991 Turbo that I've done about 30k worth of track miles on. Having owned and tracked a few BMW's over the last 2 decades across the model ranges (3/M3/5/X5/8) before switching to Porsche.

I will say (at much peril given the company) that there's absolutely nothing that BMW makes that is comparable to a 911.

Even the M cars are nothing more than the street variety with go-fast parts to make them sporty. A 911 was born as a sports car. Don't get me wrong, I love my 8 cabrio and it's a good car. It's comfortable, has great presence and I love the sounds but it's too heavy and numb for any real performance driving.

I enjoy driving the 8 but will miss the 911. I have fun driving the 911 but will never miss the 8. Porsche delivers a better driving experience.

I haven't driven a 911 but have little doubt that it probably drives better. Part of my question here though is how is the total ownership experience as a daily driver when it will never see a track. How do the other parts like infotainment, tech and using the frunk, etc factor in.

[KONG991TT]

My ownership experience exceeds that of any BMW I’ve owned but it depends on your lifestyle. I have other cars to do things the 911 can’t do (haul people, tow things, top down cruising) but really, the 911 can do 90% of everything better than 100% of everything else.

Maintenance/parts gets expensive so beware- i punctured my front lip (active aero) and it was a $4k part! I do my own oil changes but have been quoted up to $800 before. Turbo’s typically cost a little more to maintain but they’re bulletproof cars.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by KONG991TT

My ownership experience exceeds that of any BMW I’ve owned but it depends on your lifestyle. I have other cars to do things the 911 can’t do (haul people, tow things, top down cruising) but really, the 911 can do 90% of everything better than 100% of everything else.

Maintenance/parts gets expensive so beware- i punctured my front lip (active aero) and it was a $4k part! I do my own oil changes but have been quoted up to $800 before. Turbo’s typically cost a little more to maintain but they’re bulletproof cars.

Yeah makes sense. Kind of like VicS5 mentioned. Just depends on how you are using the car.

[elitex]

I own a 718 GT4 in addition to my M8. I have owned a 991.1 911 GTS previously. All great cars. I think you’re going to enjoy the 911. I drove mine from Atlanta to New Orleans in relative comfort.

Now I am debating if I should just order 992 Turbo S.

[KONG991TT]

One of my fondest memories many years ago was just jumping into the 911, driving down to VIR for a 3 day track event. It was a 4 hour drive there in complete comfort. Over 3 days, it put on 12 - 20 minute sessions of pure super car theater on track before cruising back home. I had my EZ Up, 2 fold up chairs in the passenger seat, a box of tools, jack and jack stands with an extra set of brake pads in the frunk.

These cars have a special place in the automotive pantheon. Give it a go!

[snareman]

How annoying or not that annoying is it using the frunk as compared to the auto open/close trunks on the BMWs?

[hinckley]

So my take . . .

I owned five 911s over 25 years. For most of that time, I owned two cars, but with only one parking spot in the middle of Boston, I had one winter and one summer car. Whichever car I wasn't driving was stored for the season. So when I drove the 911 (usually seven of 12 months each year), it was my only car.

I'm not going to re-hash the pure sports car thing. I know you get that. But what separates the Pcar from everything else in the sports car league, is that the 911 is a daily driver. Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, can't match that. You should spend time in the car. If it fits you (and I remember your Kilimanjaro pics, so I think it will), it's not only an incredible performance car, it's a completely comfortable one. People always assume that because it's low, it must be rough on the road. That's simply not the case. When I moved from Boston to South Florida, I chose to drive the 911 down. Almost 1500 miles in two days. Pure joy.

The 911's interior isn't quite as jaw dropping as the 8, but if you pay up, you get an equal amount of luxury. But where the 8 is "stylized" with swoopy lines and quilted stitching, the 911 is all business. It can be spec'd with just as much leather and all the interior features and comforts, but it lacks the 8's "oh wow" factor. And I'm sure that's just how the German interior design team intended it.

Like the luxury side of things, the tech side of a 911 is very, very close to BMW. About the only thing that you can't get is HUD (which I absolutely love). But once they added a digital speedo, I was very OK without HUD and with Porsche's tech. I'm an ole tech wonk, and have no problems at all with the 911's.

I never, ever had a storage problem with 911s. But if golfing's your thing, or if you need to carry back seat passengers, you will have a problem. The frunk is surprisingly useful, and the "back seat" is really just another storage area.

Mostly, you have to learn how to buy a Porsche to get what you want. It's all a la carte. We may order six or eight options max on a BMW, but my very well spec'd 911s had up to 25 different options selected. If you think a car that costs $x should have x, y and z features standard, move on. That's just not the way it works with Porsche. If you want the all the luxury and tech bits, be ready to order and to pay up. And it's why you can't think about the 911's base price in the same way you think about a normal car's base price.

I think that the 911 is the total package (golf clubs and back seat passengers aside). And for years, I believed it was a "value" compared to the Ferraris and Lambos of the world. But that's the piece that's changed and why I've moved away from the car. My last-gen 911, a GTS Cab (so mid-pack of the five-model standard lineup of Base, S, GTS, Turbo and Turbo S), stickered at about $154k. I paid about $144k. Not anymore. A similar very, very well spec'd GTS Cab now costs over $205k and that's before the already announced five to seven percent MY24 price increase. And of course, forget about any discounts and be prepared for an 18 month wait for the car you want. That's just nose-bleed territory for me. It's why I tried the M8 for a year and have now settled on the M4 - a car that imo is 85% of the 911 at less than half the price.

But if money was no object?? Nothing - NOTHING - beats the 911 imo. Mic drop.

Parting shots . . . my last 911 with my buddy's M6 (and the M8 is even bigger and heavier) . . . and all packed up ready for the move south . . . I don't need no stinkin' SUV.

[KONG991TT]

Originally Posted by snareman

How annoying or not that annoying is it using the frunk as compared to the auto open/close trunks on the BMWs?

It’s just a trunk- don’t overthink it. I can’t think of a scenario where I would consider a trunk that doesn’t automatically open/close being deemed an annoyance. They make BMW’s for people like that

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by snareman

How annoying or not that annoying is it using the frunk as compared to the auto open/close trunks on the BMWs?

Well, let me put this first world problem in perspective . . . My new M4 is the better car for me compared to the M8. And even though it doesn't have a powered trunk or a powered steering column, I love it anyway.

Lacking both those things annoy the shit out of me, but I wouldn't admit that anywhere else but on this forum.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Well, let me put this first world problem in perspective . . . My new M4 is the better car for me compared to the M8. And even though it doesn't have a powered trunk or a powered steering column, I love it anyway.

Lacking both those things annoy the shit out of me, but I wouldn't admit that anywhere else but on this forum.

It's ok, you're among friends here. We won't tell.

And agreed, definitely a first world problem. But $160,000 is a first world number.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by snareman

And agreed, definitely a first world problem. But $160,000 is a first world number.

btw, if you're not aware, closing a 911's hood is not like closing the hood of other cars. You're taught how to do it in the secret initiation rite for new 911 owners.

And to pile on . . . the 911's power steering column fell victim to the pandemic supply chain issue and to my knowledge, has not been added back. It's a bone of contention for a lot of new 911 owners.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by hinckley

So my take . . .

I owned five 911s over 25 years. For most of that time, I owned two cars, but with only one parking spot in the middle of Boston, I had one winter and one summer car. Whichever car I wasn't driving was stored for the season. So when I drove the 911 (usually seven of 12 months each year), it was my only car.

Must have had some mild winters up there unless you put some all seasons on it.

I'm not going to re-hash the pure sports car thing. I know you get that. But what separates the Pcar from everything else in the sports car league, is that the 911 is a daily driver. Ferrari, Lambo, Aston Martin, can't match that. You should spend time in the car. If it fits you (and I remember your Kilimanjaro pics, so I think it will), it's not only an incredible performance car, it's a completely comfortable one. People always assume that because it's low, it must be rough on the road. That's simply not the case. When I moved from Boston to South Florida, I chose to drive the 911 down. Almost 1500 miles in two days. Pure joy.

Thanks. Yep, I get that part. It was the rest of the stuff I was really asking about here. We stopped at PECATL on the way back from Spartanburg after picking up my 8 and I did a Cayman for 90min with the instructor. We're planning a trip to PECLA and Thermal in the spring and I'll do one of the 911 experiences.

Like the luxury side of things, the tech side of a 911 is very, very close to BMW. About the only thing that you can't get is HUD (which I absolutely love). But once they added a digital speedo, I was very OK without HUD and with Porsche's tech. I'm an ole tech wonk, and have no problems at all with the 911's.

At least they now have wireless android auto and maybe someday they'll throw a HUD in if we're lucky. It was one of the things I missed when I had my Jeep.

I never, ever had a storage problem with 911s. But if golfing's your thing, or if you need to carry back seat passengers, you will have a problem. The frunk is surprisingly useful, and the "back seat" is really just another storage area.

Never a golfer and rarely a passenger so no worries there. They are kind enough to keep a selection of my clubs at the miniature golf course.

Mostly, you have to learn how to buy a Porsche to get what you want. It's all a la carte. We may order six or eight options max on a BMW, but my very well spec'd 911s had up to 25 different options selected. If you think a car that costs $x should have x, y and z features standard, move on. That's just not the way it works with Porsche. If you want the all the luxury and tech bits, be ready to order and to pay up. And it's why you can't think about the 911's base price in the same way you think about a normal car's base price.

Yea, it's the same with Corvettes. I think I read a Taycan has 91 options. Crazy compared to the amount of standard stuff and few options on a BMW. And it seems each of the Porsche options adds a few thousand to the price. Shark blue? $3250. Different wheels? $2500. More leather? $3800. Better seats? $2200...

I think that the 911 is the total package (golf clubs and back seat passengers aside). And for years, I believed it was a "value" compared to the Ferraris and Lambos of the world. But that's the piece that's changed and why I've moved away from the car. My last-gen 911, a GTS Cab (so mid-pack of the five-model standard lineup of Base, S, GTS, Turbo and Turbo S), stickered at about $154k. I paid about $144k. Not anymore. A similar very, very well spec'd GTS Cab now costs over $205k and that's before the already announced five to seven percent MY24 price increase. And of course, forget about any discounts and be prepared for an 18 month wait for the car you want.

I'm probably more in the S ballpark with price. Sounds like if I end up getting one I should put in for an allocation somewhere in the middle of my M8 ownership. Still curious to see if a new 6 coupe materializes.

But if money was no object?? Nothing - NOTHING - beats the 911 imo. Mic drop.

It also seems that European Delivery is still a thing in Porsche-land. Another al la carte cost compared to the free BMW PCD and ED.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by hinckley

btw, if you're not aware, closing a 911's hood is not like closing the hood of other cars. You're taught how to do it in the secret initiation rite for new 911 owners.

And to pile on . . . the 911's power steering column fell victim to the pandemic supply chain issue and to my knowledge, has not been added back. It's a bone of contention for a lot of new 911 owners.

I have also gotten special BMW hood closure training at all of my recent deliveries. It's usually consisted of the delivery specialist saying (after looking at the engine), "now don't be alarmed, but I have to slam the hood to close it. It's how you do it."

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by snareman

At least they now have wireless android auto and maybe someday they'll throw a HUD in if we're lucky.

This a whole discussion in the 911 world. Porsche has a great HUD in the Cayenne, Panamera and I believe, Taycan. It's a mystery with a lot of theories as to why they don't put it in their sports cars.

Originally Posted by snareman

I think I read a Taycan has 91 options.

One way to look at it is that it allows a wild amount of personalization. You can't think of it as adding options. You gotta think about it as building your car. Leather cup holder cover. Painted or leather-covered air vent vanes with or without contrast stitching in a color of your choice. Three or four headlight choices. Clear or smoked taillights. Pick your wheel style, then pick their finish.

And oh, the Porsche PTS program. It's all pretty wild and gives to a chance to have a truly one-of-a-kind vehicle.

Originally Posted by snareman

Sounds like if I end up getting one I should put in for an allocation somewhere in the middle of my M8 ownership.

That sounds about right. You should be able to order without an ADM these days, but you may have to do a bit of looking around for that if you don't have a history with your dealer. Make sure your deposit's refundable and if a new 6 is announced, you'll have a fun choice to make.

Originally Posted by snareman

It also seems that European Delivery is still a thing in Porsche-land. Another al la carte cost compared to the free BMW PCD and ED.

Ya. That's honestly one of my biggest regrets about taking Porsche off the table. I've done six BMW EDs and had planned one last big hurrah - a month in Italy with a new 911. It's one of the reasons that I think I'll eventually give in and go back.

Originally Posted by snareman

Must have had some mild winters up there unless you put some all seasons on it.

Not a chance. Each November, I put the 911 in storage and pulled out of storage a series of "winter beaters." My last one was an M4 that I did an October ED with and had my dealer put winter tires on it prior to delivery in December. They never came off the car for the entire time I owned it. Only drove it in the winter. lol

Of course, every once in a while, I'd get caught with the 911 in an early or late storm. That got a bit dicey.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by snareman

I have also gotten special BMW hood closure training at all of my recent deliveries. It's usually consisted of the delivery specialist saying (after looking at the engine), "now don't be alarmed, but I have to slam the hood to close it. It's how you do it."

Literally just the opposite with a 911. A gentle drop of the hood and then a push on the Porsche emblem to lock in place. I'm going to have to kill you now.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by hinckley

Literally just the opposite with a 911. A gentle drop of the hood and then a push on the Porsche emblem to lock in place. I'm going to have to kill you now.

Yeah I saw the Porsche technique in the video so the Porsche Freemason frunk closing secrecy is out there. But, if I were to end up getting a Porsche then I could avoid that death right?

[snareman]

Originally Posted by hinckley

One way to look at it is that it allows a wild amount of personalization. You can't think of it as adding options. You gotta think about it as building your car. Leather cup holder cover. Painted or leather-covered air vent vanes with or without contrast stitching in a color of your choice. Three or four headlight choices. Clear or smoked taillights. Pick your wheel style, then pick their finish.

If only each option didn't add several thousand dollars.

And oh, the Porsche PTS program. It's all pretty wild and gives to a chance to have a truly one-of-a-kind vehicle.

Jeez, and I thought BMW had a lot of individual colors. You still can't tell via internet renders though.
https://www.ptsexplorer.com/

That sounds about right. You should be able to order without an ADM these days, but you may have to do a bit of looking around for that if you don't have a history with your dealer. Make sure your deposit's refundable and if a new 6 is announced, you'll have a fun choice to make.

Yea, I have zero history with any Porsche dealers since I'd be new to Porsche world. I could go through a broker like I did with my M8, but I assume I'd have to pay him his $500 either way. I suppose I could stop in my local small town Porsche dealer and see what they have to say. I'm betting about the same that my local BMW dealer would have had to say about an M8 allocation.

Ya. That's honestly one of my biggest regrets about taking Porsche off the table. I've done six BMW EDs and had planned one last big hurrah - a month in Italy with a new 911. It's one of the reasons that I think I'll eventually give in and go back.

I did 4 ED's. They were such an amazing experience, taking a vacation with YOUR CAR in Europe, autobahn, etc. I always loved when I'd be talking to some non-car person and they were like, "so you HAD to go to Germany to pick up your car?" No, I GOT to go to Germany to pick up my car. Lol. We went up to the Porsche museum, but I think Mercedes had the best of museum.

[hinckley]

Originally Posted by snareman

Jeez, and I thought BMW had a lot of individual colors. You still can't tell via internet renders though.

The 911 configurator will render all the standard PTS colors.

Originally Posted by snareman

I did 4 ED's. They were such an amazing experience, taking a vacation with YOUR CAR in Europe, autobahn, etc. I always loved when I'd be talking to some non-car person and they were like, "so you HAD to go to Germany to pick up your car?" No, I GOT to go to Germany to pick up my car. Lol. We went up to the Porsche museum, but I think Mercedes had the best of museum.

[BMWGirlFL]

Originally Posted by snareman

I suppose I could stop in my local small town Porsche dealer and see what they have to say.

What would your service situation look like? 9 BMW near enough to me. Porsche 4.

[snareman]

Originally Posted by BMWGirlFL

What would your service situation look like? 9 BMW near enough to me. Porsche 4.

Depending on how near you are talking about, there are two BMW and one Porsche in Dayton. If I go to Columbus and Cincinnati, about an hour in either direction, there are more but that's too far to go for service. Both of my current cars came from the dealership in Maryland, but I still just take them to my local dealer for service that I had been using for the past 18 years that I've now disowned because they started sucking and almost every department including my client advisor that I considered a friend.

[NYG1121]

I daily drove a 992 base for almost a year in boston as DD with seasonal tire swaps. It was very doable and I really enjoyed it and will probably get another one eventually. But I wont lie there were times I wanted something more comfortable (esp with boston roads/potholes), with more space (golf clubs in backseat can make car dirty/smell), less road noise (tire noise is quite loud) etc. My current F90 really solves all of that but you lose the dynamics of a 911.