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      01-05-2018, 03:20 AM   #1
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BMW M8 Road Car to Get Transaxle and Other Benefits From M8 GTE Race Car

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BMW M8 Road Car to Get Transaxle From M8 GTE Race Car
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BMW Motorsport Director, Jens Marquardt recently gave the following interview to Racer.com, in which he talks how the M8 road version will benefit from the M8 GTE engineering, including its transaxle (an integrated assembly combining functions of both the transmission and differential). What are the benefits of a transaxle instead of traditional transmission and differential? Better weight distribution and reduced overall vehicle weight (because there's no separate differential unit).


INSIGHT: BMW's new M8 GTE

Thursday, 04 January 2018

For the third time in six seasons BMW Motorsport Team RLL will show up at the opening race of the IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar Championship season with a new model car. This time, BMW Motorsport unveils the M8 GTE, based on the yet-to-be released road-going M8 that was revealed at summer's end in 2017.

In addition to an assault on the IMSA WeatherTech Championship, BMW will also return to Le Mans in 2018 for the first time since the mighty V12 LMR won the race overall in 1999. Thus, the M8 GTE will form the foundation of a two-pronged attack, with the FIA World Endurance Championship also on the menu. Perhaps for this reason, that the M8 GTE is a more racing-focused machine that its predecessors, the Z4 GTE and the M6 GTLM.

"The M6 GTLM didn't begin with the intention of running in the GTLM class," says BMW Motorsport Director Jens Marquardt. "It was originally planned as only a GT3-spec car, but when some rules convergence initiatives didn't work out in 2014, we were already too far up the path to turn back. So, I'm very grateful to IMSA that they were willing to work with us to make the changes we had to do to the M6 to allow it to race."

The M8 GTE, on the other hand, has been fully conceived from a clean sheet, with the specific objective of endurance racing in the top GT class in both the U.S. and internationally.

"The M8 is a purpose-built GTE car," continues Marquardt (below). "Whereas the M6 GTLM was a 95 percent production-based drivetrain, the M8 GTE is more like 30 percent to 40 percent production-based, and the rest is bespoke motorsport."

Marquardt credits his team at BMW Motorsport in Munich who collectively work on all their programs from IMSA to DTM, and now WEC and Formula E, for taking the collective experience gained from all the series and focusing it forward on the 2018 programs. Because of the effort put it in, Marquardt insists that BMW will arrive at the Rolex 24 At Daytona with victory as it only target. This is despite being the only all-new car on the GTLM grid.

"We recently completed a 24-hour test at Circuit Paul Ricard and I'm very happy with the results," he says. "No test is ever perfect, but I'm pleased to say that all the problems encountered were successfully resolved in the first try. So, I really need to give my guys credit that they are applying all of their experience from not only what we learned with the M6 GTLM, but also from what we are doing in other race series."

The M8 GTE will be powered by a 4.0L turbo-charged V8 that produces over 500 horsepower.

"On the engine, there has been a lot of effort put into both efficiency and performance," says Marquardt. "Compared to the M6, we have all new electronics in the engine management and the gearbox is also all-new."

The chassis for the car is not only new, but constructed very differently to base chassis for the M6, and is therefore less compromised.

"In this respect, we didn't target any customer-racing programs with this car," he says. "It is really only a proper works car."

The approach that BMW has taken with the M8 GTE has in part come as a response to the elevated technology and purpose-built approach that a few of its GTE/LM competitors have taken to their cars. Indeed, some say that the Ford's GT and Porsche's 911 RSR have pushed the rules as far as possible, and are closer to a prototype in GT clothing. To this point, Marquardt believes that while the M8 GTE is a bespoke racecar, it is still very close in spirit to the eventual production version, and thus a purer GT car.

"The chassis for the M8 road version is built in the same line as the GTE cars, and the engine location and transaxle concept are exactly the same in both cars," says Marquardt.

"Surely, we will exceed the production volumes that are required for homologation, and to the best of my knowledge neither Ford [with the GT] or Porsche [with a mid-engine 911] have as of yet.

"Ford has done a great job of starting with a pure racecar and then finding a way to build the minimum number needed for a road car. We have chosen to do the opposite, because the concept for the M8 as a road car came first."

To underscore how the M8 GTE straddles the line between pure-bred racecar and production road car, Marquardt explains a key chassis difference.

"Production cars have a lot of safety and comfort requirements that make them quite heavy compared to a racecar," he says.

"As a result, to meet those requirements and still have the desired performance the road car chassis is made very stiff. They are actually too stiff for the weight of a racecar. So for the M8 GTE, we have replaced the steel front subframe of the road car with a carbon crash structure that meets our targets for weight and stiffness on the racecar."

The M8 GTE is smaller, lower and of shorter wheelbase than the outgoing M6 GTLM, but it is still a large car by racing standards. So Marquardt expects that the flowing, longer tracks as found across the WEC as well as Daytona, Sebring and the summer swing of traditional natural terrain road-courses that IMSA will compete on are most suited to the M8 GTE's characteristics. If the BoP is managed correctly, this GTLM season is serving up to be one of the most anticipated yet.

"Everyone is very excited about this new car, and Bobby [Rahal] and his team are eager to start racing," Marquardt says. "We know it's going to be a lot of hard work, but this car is a big step forward."

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      01-05-2018, 07:14 AM   #2
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This is all very intriguing. On the surface of things, it seems to at least allow for the possibility that there could be an M8 CSL which gains perhaps some of the CF chassis components from the M8 GTE:

Quote:
The chassis for the M8 road version is built in the same line as the GTE cars...

for the M8 GTE, we have replaced the steel front subframe of the road car with a carbon crash structure...
Sure, the article specifically calls out the fact that roads cars have safety/stiffness requirements to adhere to, but it seems to me that there is at least a chance that an M8 CSL could still meet regulatory obligations while adopting some CFRP in the chassis. If this were to happen, along with using more CFRP body panels, we might finally have a modern BMW worthy of the CSL name. In other words, a car that doesn't attempt to lose weight by simply "bolting on" lightness.
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      01-05-2018, 07:33 AM   #3
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This article does give me more hope this year. During the M6 era, I felt like we really needed strategy to win races where other cars could win on strategy and performance.

I look forward to being woken up by the lead M8's while taking nap in the carousel after a 4 days of fun
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      01-05-2018, 08:41 AM   #4
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Would be great if they offered the CF wide body kit from the M8 GTE race car too. I'd check it off if it were an option.
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      01-05-2018, 09:50 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MRV99 View Post
This article does give me more hope this year. During the M6 era, I felt like we really needed strategy to win races where other cars could win on strategy and performance.

I look forward to being woken up by the lead M8's while taking nap in the carousel after a 4 days of fun
Officially jealous. I live near COTA. Haven't been to a 24 hour pro race. A man has to havr goals doesn't he!
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      01-05-2018, 09:56 AM   #6
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500 hp. Omg, are we going to need all wheel drive like in the M5 ?


Seriously though, this car actually seems to harken back toward the E30 M3, when BMW made a race car to compete in Gruppe A and Gruppe N and *then* transferred it over to being a street car.

Seemingly every other race car that BMW has made was more converting a street car to a race car, particularly recently with the z4 GTE and the M6 GTE as described above.

While I will never be able to afford one probably, I'm very excited to see the M8 road car as it looks to really be developed with a new philosophy.

RACE IT, then STREET IT.
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      01-05-2018, 01:44 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
500 hp. Omg, are we going to need all wheel drive like in the M5 ?


Seriously though, this car actually seems to harken back toward the E30 M3, when BMW made a race car to compete in Gruppe A and Gruppe N and *then* transferred it over to being a street car.

Seemingly every other race car that BMW has made was more converting a street car to a race car, particularly recently with the z4 GTE and the M6 GTE as described above.

While I will never be able to afford one probably, I'm very excited to see the M8 road car as it looks to really be developed with a new philosophy.

RACE IT, then STREET IT.
Me too. I just want to see an overpriced high end, too much horsepower sports car which can compete with cars like the Merc GT/SLS. I don't see my kid wanting to put a poster of an M2/3/4/5/6 or 760M v12 on the wall, but a Lamborghini/Ferrari/GT will be desired. Just hope the M8 looks bad enough to get that response.
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      01-05-2018, 02:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mkoesel View Post
This is all very intriguing. On the surface of things, it seems to at least allow for the possibility that there could be an M8 CSL which gains perhaps some of the CF chassis components from the M8 GTE:



Sure, the article specifically calls out the fact that roads cars have safety/stiffness requirements to adhere to, but it seems to me that there is at least a chance that an M8 CSL could still meet regulatory obligations while adopting some CFRP in the chassis. If this were to happen, along with using more CFRP body panels, we might finally have a modern BMW worthy of the CSL name. In other words, a car that doesn't attempt to lose weight by simply "bolting on" lightness.
I think the challenge in bringing that big of a change to market would be the fact that they'd have to re-certify it, from a safety perspective. That's gotta be expensive.
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      01-05-2018, 03:35 PM   #9
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Quote:
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I think the challenge in bringing that big of a change to market would be the fact that they'd have to re-certify it, from a safety perspective. That's gotta be expensive.
True, but I'm pretty sure they had to re-certify the F82 M4 GTS too, for example, due to other changes (such as the seating).
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      01-05-2018, 04:47 PM   #10
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I think this is all very exciting to say the least.

From my understanding of Marquardt's brief description of Ford GT's chassis development, that process reminds me of E30 M3's chassis development and homologation in the old days. I know it's not exactly the same, but the philosophy is similar. But that makes me question the overall chassis stiffness of the Ford GT and its crashability and passenger safety in that regard. For a very limited production vehicle, the priorities of developing the Ford GT is very different than that of the M8.

I know that this "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" mindset isn't financially feasible for most major auto manufacturers nowadays, the compromise BMW had to accept in creating the M8 GTE from the M8, or vice versa, seems like the logical step below a program like the Ford GT.

Overall, I'm very excited to wait and see how the actual M8 drives like when it finally releases. It's not a concept or a unicorn. It is very real.
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      01-05-2018, 05:49 PM   #11
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Am I wrong but we're the M8s way off the GTLM pace today?
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      01-06-2018, 12:11 AM   #12
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Am I wrong but we're the M8s way off the GTLM pace today?
Yes they are off pace by what would be considered a huge margin, 3 seconds times hundreds (600-700) laps is nasty. Was this by design or because the m8 is that bad. Yes 100's of simulations and tests have been done but the only really way to know how the car will be is by actual laps. We do not know what bmw has developed as a "race/practice plan" for the race. Give them time and let's see what unfolds. Does no good to put a car off track day one unless you are really trying to finding the limit.
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      01-06-2018, 08:47 AM   #13
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That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

But regardless of transmission, with its race bred heritage, it seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward

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      01-06-2018, 09:21 AM   #14
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That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

It seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward
Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
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      01-06-2018, 10:22 AM   #15
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Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
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      01-06-2018, 11:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

It seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward
Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
It's not faster .... they don't even claim it is .
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      01-06-2018, 03:40 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

It seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward
Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
I like what you did there.

I too find great humor in the DCT crowd being worked up over a torque converter.
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      01-06-2018, 05:40 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundown View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

It seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward
Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
I like what you did there.

I too find great humor in the DCT crowd being worked up over a torque converter.
I find great humor in people being ok paying much more for a less expensive part .
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      01-06-2018, 06:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundown View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 Adjuster View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3 View Post
That is interesting. With the new M5 getting a traditional automatic and rumors of the next gen M2/3/4 going down the same route, I wonder if the road going M8 will be getting a DCT since there a few off the shelf variants that can handle higher torque outputs.

It seems like the M8 might be the “true” ///M to get going forward
Well if the automatic is *faster* ...
I like what you did there.

I too find great humor in the DCT crowd being worked up over a torque converter.
torque converter is a condom
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      01-06-2018, 08:56 PM   #20
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But what will it WEIGHT??????????

Pls not more than 1700 kg
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      01-06-2018, 10:25 PM   #21
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On the right path.

Great news and positive vibes from the racing guys. I am already excited about the M8 that will follow if what is said happens.
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      01-07-2018, 10:19 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roundown View Post
I like what you did there.

I too find great humor in the DCT crowd being worked up over a torque converter.
It's not only about the torque converter, it is about the greater static mass, rotating inertia and parasitic losses of a planetary type automatic which make the whole drivetrain more sluggish. Albeit planetary autos keep getting better and better, so it is only a question of time before they are able to match the advantages of a DCT, but they are not quite there yet.

Just to be clear though, the M8 GTE does NOT have a planetary/torque-converter transmission.

https://ricardo.com/news-and-media/p...t-transmission
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