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      02-19-2020, 12:57 AM   #23
limeypride
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehloo View Post
It’s the way how everyone is demanding data and if not provided it didn’t happen. It felt like your initial comment was just like everyone else’s

Gone through too many threads with post with promises of HP and unrealistic times but this wasn’t one.

OP was positing his experience with a product. He is happy with it as well as I. All that matters

Buy the race chip, don’t. I don’t work for them so doesn’t really matter to me
I didn't demand, I asked--that's not the same thing. I genuinely give a shit about how I interact with others so I re-read my post... repeatedly... and I still don't read anything into it other than supportive curiosity for a new platform I'm about to invest $160,000 in. Don't apply your generalized takeaways to me; I've more than proven my open-mindedness--your response was neither supportive nor open-minded.

OP's subject remained intact: my question was relevant and on-topic; your response wasn't.

Last edited by limeypride; 02-19-2020 at 01:06 AM..
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      02-19-2020, 12:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post
@hilsman , Thank you for your mention.
Greatly appreciate it.

limeypride , Ehloo got special mapping because RaceChip USA guy visited him and did a datalog and tweaked some of the parameters since he got air intake and catless secondary.

But, anyway, stop arguing about JB4 is better or RaceChip is better.
They all good product, it is just like Mac va PC.

I have used both, but I prefer Mac for the convenience and ease of use.
But for something that I am willing to spend my time and tinkering on the setting, I am still using PC, but preferably with Linux operating system (which is equivalent to flash tune).
Since I don't have that many free time in tinkering and tweaking, that's why I use Mac for my daily.

I hope you guys understand my terminology.
Agreed--both great products... and I'm sounding like a broken record.

Beyond that, dude--luv ya man but agree to differ on this one we will (Yoda references in there per the other thread ).
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      02-19-2020, 08:01 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
Sheesh no reason to attack each other. I do believe race chip works, the gains are there but modest. I have a draggy and when the weather is nice I can try to get some data with it on and off.

Noushy
I'll assume that's directed at me...

I have no argument wrt/ RaceChip's effectiveness. In fact, I mentioned it numerous times earlier—so consider me a believer.

However, there's a trend occurring across the forums where anyone "asking for data" to back subjective butt-dyno assessments of performance devices is treated with ire--that same tone was apparent to me... and here we are.
Just clearing the air for everyone. Yes I agree that backing it up with some data really helps. Subjective data is a start but showing some real gains via numbers solidifies the result.

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      02-20-2020, 06:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
I'd venture to say these days the car's ECU or associated computer will record the changes to the factory set parameters and possibly create some kind of alert when hooked up to BMW diagnostics.

a properly designed and engineered piggy back unit will never "defeat" the "pre-set" factory limitations set by the ECU. What is "sees and records" never changes. at WOT for example there are preset boost "limits" the ECU will expect to see. while a piggy back unit may alter the "signal" being sent from the sensor connections, the ECU itself still only "sees" those limits, therefore nothing is actually ever changed from stock. However in case of the JB4 unit for example, if you plug into the OBDII port , it can leave a fingerprint trace that something was altered if any changes are done thru it. Just trying to give some additional info on how they work etc.
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      02-20-2020, 07:35 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
a properly designed and engineered piggy back unit will never "defeat" the "pre-set" factory limitations set by the ECU. What is "sees and records" never changes. at WOT for example there are preset boost "limits" the ECU will expect to see. while a piggy back unit may alter the "signal" being sent from the sensor connections, the ECU itself still only "sees" those limits, therefore nothing is actually ever changed from stock. However in case of the JB4 unit for example, if you plug into the OBDII port , it can leave a fingerprint trace that something was altered if any changes are done thru it. Just trying to give some additional info on how they work etc.
Agree. By design the factory ECU will never see a reading beyond max, the man in the middle attack which is a piggy fakes the results. Sort of like putting a device between your speedometer and the sensor that causes it to read lower. The speedo will say 70mph when in fact you are doing 77mph. The only way might be if the car had additional sensors outside of the piggy that could tell the boost was outside parameters etc.

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      02-20-2020, 06:18 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r33_RGSport View Post

But, anyway, stop arguing about JB4 is better or RaceChip is better.
They all good product, it is just like Mac va PC.

I have used both, but I prefer Mac for the convenience and ease of use.
But for something that I am willing to spend my time and tinkering on the setting, I am still using PC, but preferably with Linux operating system (which is equivalent to flash tune).
Since I don't have that many free time in tinkering and tweaking, that's why I use Mac for my daily.

I hope you guys understand my terminology.
I got it as IT technology is my gig (higher scope as in how a company leverages it to operate vs end user computing). I too own both and use my Mac for what it does best and a PC on Windows 10 for most everything else. That said most of this thread on tuning chips is well beyond my knowledge so enjoying the education.
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      02-20-2020, 06:22 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehloo View Post
Don’t think the draggy reads “ a hell lot faster”

But seriously those that go with race chip aren’t looking to be the fastest on the street. Nor do they really care to prove it to someone else that their car is faster than before.


My car is much faster, puts a huge smile on my face and don’t regret the purchase. That is more than enough for me
And that is all that matters as in any purchase the customer is either satisfied or not. Two people can buy the same product and not have the same outcome on the satisfaction scale.
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      02-20-2020, 06:46 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
a properly designed and engineered piggy back unit will never "defeat" the "pre-set" factory limitations set by the ECU. What is "sees and records" never changes. at WOT for example there are preset boost "limits" the ECU will expect to see. while a piggy back unit may alter the "signal" being sent from the sensor connections, the ECU itself still only "sees" those limits, therefore nothing is actually ever changed from stock. However in case of the JB4 unit for example, if you plug into the OBDII port , it can leave a fingerprint trace that something was altered if any changes are done thru it. Just trying to give some additional info on how they work etc.
Good to know, thanks, pardon my ignorance but if it's not changing/defeating factory preset levels (boost, timing fuel mix etc), then how does it increase power? My dealer says BMW frowns upons mods and if trouble arises, and it may have something to do with the mod in one way or another, the warranty may be negatively affected. I'm more than satisfied with the power as is and wouldn't risk it, but to each their own
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      02-20-2020, 08:06 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
I'd venture to say these days the car's ECU or associated computer will record the changes to the factory set parameters and possibly create some kind of alert when hooked up to BMW diagnostics.

a properly designed and engineered piggy back unit will never "defeat" the "pre-set" factory limitations set by the ECU. What is "sees and records" never changes. at WOT for example there are preset boost "limits" the ECU will expect to see. while a piggy back unit may alter the "signal" being sent from the sensor connections, the ECU itself still only "sees" those limits, therefore nothing is actually ever changed from stock. However in case of the JB4 unit for example, if you plug into the OBDII port , it can leave a fingerprint trace that something was altered if any changes are done thru it. Just trying to give some additional info on how they work etc.
JB4's use of OBD II is entirely passive as I understand it from Terry—it's leveraging ECU/CAN bus metrics to better inform the JB's behaviors (boost per gear... per RPM, timing, knock sensors, etc).

It's certainly possible I'm insufficiently informed so I was wondering if you're speculating or stating a fact that it does more through OBD II than merely read?

Thanks!

Last edited by limeypride; 02-20-2020 at 08:24 PM..
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      02-20-2020, 08:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJC-1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
a properly designed and engineered piggy back unit will never "defeat" the "pre-set" factory limitations set by the ECU. What is "sees and records" never changes. at WOT for example there are preset boost "limits" the ECU will expect to see. while a piggy back unit may alter the "signal" being sent from the sensor connections, the ECU itself still only "sees" those limits, therefore nothing is actually ever changed from stock. However in case of the JB4 unit for example, if you plug into the OBDII port , it can leave a fingerprint trace that something was altered if any changes are done thru it. Just trying to give some additional info on how they work etc.
Good to know, thanks, pardon my ignorance but if it's not changing/defeating factory preset levels (boost, timing fuel mix etc), then how does it increase power? My dealer says BMW frowns upons mods and if trouble arises, and it may have something to do with the mod in one way or another, the warranty may be negatively affected. I'm more than satisfied with the power as is and wouldn't risk it, but to each their own
When the ECU requests a certain boost target, the JB4 overrides it according to the map's preconfigured settings—it can do so because it's inserted in between the ECU and the turbo controller hence the term "man in the middle" that someone used earlier. As a result, it can "override" the requested target either additively by adding +4 for example to whatever the ECU's target was (that's map 1) or it can use absolute values ignoring what the ECU said entirely.

On the warranty question, yes, they're correct—as is mentioned here frequently: you pay to play.
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      02-20-2020, 08:58 PM   #33
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I want to add that it helps to have a good relationship with your dealer. Mine is cool with removing the race chip and putting in the dummy plug before any service or programming.

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      02-20-2020, 09:25 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noushy View Post
I want to add that it helps to have a good relationship with your dealer. Mine is cool with removing the race chip and putting in the dummy plug before any service or programming.

Noushy
Agreed, one's dealership is a paramount to a healthy relationship with our beloved vehicles. The rub occurs when a problem arises and if the dealer knows there were mods and/or BMW USA finds out and needs to be involved (major drivetrain component failure etc), then all bets are off. BMW's new cost chopper CEO's attitude will certainly not help matters in the least.
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      02-21-2020, 07:07 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
JB4's use of OBD II is entirely passive as I understand it from Terry—it's leveraging ECU/CAN bus metrics to better inform the JB's behaviors (boost per gear... per RPM, timing, knock sensors, etc).

It's certainly possible I'm insufficiently informed so I was wondering if you're speculating or stating a fact that it does more through OBD II than merely read?

Thanks!
fair statement- I don't have specific knowledge of the OBDII connection that burger uses and if its passive or not, but I would suspect the moment you do any of their "advance tuning" , which would run thru the OBD, then that "flash counter" that detects any changes would be tripped and out the window goes your warranty. Again, speculation on my part but seems logical
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      02-21-2020, 09:30 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subzero05 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by limeypride View Post
JB4's use of OBD II is entirely passive as I understand it from Terry—it's leveraging ECU/CAN bus metrics to better inform the JB's behaviors (boost per gear... per RPM, timing, knock sensors, etc).

It's certainly possible I'm insufficiently informed so I was wondering if you're speculating or stating a fact that it does more through OBD II than merely read?

Thanks!
fair statement- I don't have specific knowledge of the OBDII connection that burger uses and if its passive or not, but I would suspect the moment you do any of their "advance tuning" , which would run thru the OBD, then that "flash counter" that detects any changes would be tripped and out the window goes your warranty. Again, speculation on my part but seems logical
I'm doing all of their advanced tuning except meth, there's no breadcrumb trail. My vehicle received an extensive software update—nothing.
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