[Sneaky Pete]

I wonder just how much longer Red Bull can let this scandal drag on...its surely its just a matter of time before CH is going to be asked to resign by RB so he can spend more time with his family.

[Sparky68]

Originally Posted by lens

He will.

Horner was the one who allowed Newey freedom to do anything he pleases, which is why he stayed in RBR for so long (he was working on his boats until 2021)

You put a new TP in there that nobody knows, and I'm sure the guy will start tightening the belt.

Remember, Newey says he regrets not working with Hamilton and Ferrari.

Well it would be at least 2 years before anything he designed for another team would hit the track. Think he is quite happy at Red Bull.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

She's on full pay apparently and it's Hobsons choice what happens now, if her lawyer continues to be funded by whoever. I would have thought that if you grow disenchanted with the boss/firm then you hand your notice and leave but PA's jobs can be scarce. Could be she was disappointed with her renumeration and asked for more...the rest is history.

As I said : This Isn't over yet....
She got $1Million , but it looks like that wasn't enough for her !
She will speak again , and a statement is in the works to make it World news (again)!
She hid her face very well , but the time has come to show her face through a statement .
U2 and Hollywood are also watching ...
Hold your breath !

So , get your popcorn bowl ready ! Because there's a new F1 soap in the air !

A F1 soap [Episode 5]

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

As I said : This Isn't over yet....
She got $1Million , but it looks like that wasn't enough for her !
She will speak again , and a statement is in the works to make it World news (again)!
She hid her face very well , but the time has come to show her face through a statement .
U2 and Hollywood are also watching ...
Hold your breath !

So , get your popcorn bowl ready ! Because there's a new F1 soap in the air !

A F1 soap [Episode 5]

Wake me when it's over my friend

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Sparky68

Well it would be at least 2 years before anything he designed for another team would hit the track. Think he is quite happy at Red Bull.

Mate. We really hope , Horner will be fine

But I just hear ...She will speak again !

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by lens

He will.

Horner was the one who allowed Newey freedom to do anything he pleases, which is why he stayed in RBR for so long (he was working on his boats until 2021)

You put a new TP in there that nobody knows, and I'm sure the guy will start tightening the belt.

Remember, Newey says he regrets not working with Hamilton and Ferrari.

I doubt whoever comes in will want to disturb the current set-up knowing Newey is a big piece of the winning equation they have. And why would he want to go work with Ham when you can clearly see his skills are dropping off (and have been since 2021).

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Wake me when it's over my friend

Popcorn is so passé.

Nowadays it's: "I just had a bowl of cocoa pops and now ready for bed".

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Agree, Newey is in too deep with RB and RB17 program. That is his baby right now and it is far from finished.


Watch Leclerc end up beating Lewis like Rosberg did.

Agreed on both. Newey is RB through and through and I dont think, as mentioned above, anyone will want to stop what has been working. He and Max seem to be one of the best combos ever in F1.

Ham simply isnt the driver he was 5 years ago and certainly when he remove him from the most dominant string of cars and put him in a competitive one he just doesnt have what it takes to win when that car isnt simply the fastest by considerable margin.

[Sneaky Pete]

I think you are writing off Hamilton a bit too soon.
Sure in a dominant car half the field could have won championships in the previous Mercedes and the current Red Bull.
All the very best drivers in F1 (Senna, Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton) showed their quality in their first season...something I would note that Verstappen did not.
Hamilton weirdly often starts a season a bit slowly...come back towards the end of the season to before writing him off.
Of course Rosberg only won because of reliability issues for Hamilton in that season...anyone who thinks otherwise wasn't paying attention.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

I think you are writing off Hamilton a bit too soon.
Sure in a dominant car half the field could have won championships in the previous Mercedes and the current Red Bull.
All the very best drivers in F1 (Senna, Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton) showed their quality in their first season...something I would note that Verstappen did not.
Hamilton weirdly often starts a season a bit slowly...come back towards the end of the season to before writing him off.
Of course Rosberg only won because of reliability issues for Hamilton in that season...anyone who thinks otherwise wasn't paying attention.

Ham started in the single best car in F1 and has had a competitive car every year he's been in F1. And yet, 17 years of competitive cars and only 7 WDCs.
Max started out in maybe the slowest car his first year, and even the RB was only the 4th or 5th fastest, yet he still won races and scored points well beyond what the car should have. By comparison through 9 years in F1 he has had a competitive car for 3 seasons and won all 3 of those WDCs, one of them in a slower car to boot.
I do think you can see Ham's skills are dropping off - the amount of contact he makes and sloppy errors have gone up considerably over the past two years. You cannot expect at 39/40 for him to have the same reaction times as someone 5,10,15 years younger. Alo seems to be an outlier here but even he has lost a step or two, and he dedicates more time to racing than Ham.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

one of them in a slower car to boot.

And a massive helping hand from Massi. Then the following year by a bit of accounting cheating.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Ham started in the single best car in F1 and has had a competitive car every year he's been in F1. And yet, 17 years of competitive cars and only 7 WDCs.
Max started out in maybe the slowest car his first year, and even the RB was only the 4th or 5th fastest, yet he still won races and scored points well beyond what the car should have. By comparison through 9 years in F1 he has had a competitive car for 3 seasons and won all 3 of those WDCs, one of them in a slower car to boot.
I do think you can see Ham's skills are dropping off - the amount of contact he makes and sloppy errors have gone up considerably over the past two years. You cannot expect at 39/40 for him to have the same reaction times as someone 5,10,15 years younger. Alo seems to be an outlier here but even he has lost a step or two, and he dedicates more time to racing than Ham.

Like Alonso said, hammy can only drive from the front.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

And a massive helping hand from Massi. Then the following year by a bit of accounting cheating.

Let's not get into cheating - because Massa/Crashgate as well as Ham/Spygate were actual cheating. RB spending 400K over was not cheating like the former two.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Like Alonso said, hammy can only drive from the front.

He wasn't wrong.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Let's not get into cheating - because Massa/Crashgate as well as Ham/Spygate were actual cheating. RB spending 400K over was not cheating like the former two.

To which neither Massa and Hamilton won championships. More false equivalents and whataboutism ?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Sneaky Pete

I think you are writing off Hamilton a bit too soon.
Sure in a dominant car half the field could have won championships in the previous Mercedes and the current Red Bull.
All the very best drivers in F1 (Senna, Alonso, Schumacher, Hamilton) showed their quality in their first season...something I would note that Verstappen did not.
Hamilton weirdly often starts a season a bit slowly...come back towards the end of the season to before writing him off.
Of course Rosberg only won because of reliability issues for Hamilton in that season...anyone who thinks otherwise wasn't paying attention.

Don't underestimate the age factor. Top athletes and fighter pilots: there is definitely a "prime time" between the early 20s to late 30s where they will be most physically capable.

Hamilton will be 40 years next January. Alonso 43 years. 20-something youngsters have a physical advantage.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

To which neither Massa and Hamilton won championships. More false equivalents and whataboutism ?

Huh? Ham did win a WDC due to crashgate. It's funny that Ham even said if he were in Max's position in 2021 he'd do the exact same thing. There was simply nothing wrong with how that was handled given the rules that allowed RD to do anything he wants with the SC.

[Marcoose]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

Huh? Ham did win a WDC due to crashgate. It's funny that Ham even said if he were in Max's position in 2021 he'd do the exact same thing. There was simply nothing wrong with how that was handled given the rules that allowed RD to do anything he wants with the SC.

Nah. Hamilton barely won in 2008 by a lucky overtake at the last corner at the last lap on the last race. Spygate was from shenanigans up to 2006. And yes, Hamilton correctly --and gentlemanly-- said there was nothing wrong 2021. The wrong was in Massi's novel and unique interpretation of end of safety car rules.

Why continue to relitigate Verstappen's wins*? It's like Senna fans relitigating Suzuka 1990. It's over. Your guy won*. Let it be.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Marcoose

Nah. Hamilton barely won in 2008 by a lucky overtake at the last corner at the last lap on the last race. Spygate was from shenanigans up to 2006. And yes, Hamilton correctly --and gentlemanly-- said there was nothing wrong 2021. The wrong was in Massi's novel and unique interpretation of end of safety car rules.

Why continue to relitigate Verstappen's wins*? It's like Senna fans relitigating Suzuka 1990. It's over. Your guy won*. Let it be.

I dont think anyone is trying to go back to relitigate it. Max won fair and square in what was by and large a slower car.
I wont go into it, but sporting code (15.3) allowed Masi to do what he did within the rules, and since teams all agreed they wanted to end on green flag racing they should have known.
There have been a few more cases since 2021 where Max lost track position to get tires and then passed anyone, including the fastest SC overtake on Ham who stayed out on old tires (2022 Austria I think it was).

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Don't underestimate the age factor. Top athletes and fighter pilots: there is definitely a "prime time" between the early 20s to late 30s where they will be most physically capable.

Hamilton will be 40 years next January. Alonso 43 years. 20-something youngsters have a physical advantage.

Attachment 3407446

Attachment 3407445

I think these stats tell the story. Older WDC champions are rare, especially as the years go up and even wins in general become much more rare. The sport is much more physical now and that plays a part too. I would also guess that as you go back decade after decade the avg age gets older which would show that winning back then was nearly as much of an outlier as it would be today.

[M5Rick]

MAX keeps RBR as one and calls on everyone to keep the peace while CH deals with the situation behind the scenes which is having no negative impact at all on the race performance of the two Oracle sponsored cars.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...-red-bull-saga

[dfox]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

MAX keeps RBR as one and calls on everyone to keep the peace while CH deals with the situation behind the scenes which is having no negative impact at all on the race performance of the two Oracle sponsored cars.
https://www.planetf1.com/news/max-ve...-red-bull-saga

I wouldn't be surprised if everyone in the media is spending more time on the situation than CH is himself.