[Inspired]

Here comes the BMW fan boy barging into this thread trying to defend their purchase. -1 point because of AWD.. what a joke..

I would rather have a STI any day of the week over a 328.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

328: FR drive +1pt, N/A I-6 + 1pt, Balanced Chassis +1pt. Total = 3pts
STI: AWD 0 pt, Turbo Boxer 4 0pt, Understeer -1pt, Boy Racer -2pt. Total = -3pts.

I don't see how this is even a competition. Clearly apples and oranges. If I were a rally driver I might favor a STI, otherwise 328 FTW!

How does the BMW's I6 score more points than the boxer4 in the Subie? The Subie sounds better, puts out way more grunt, and gets similar fuel economy. And understeer.... Are you talking about previous models or the 2012? Also, the STi could understeer to the moon and back in the time it takes the 328 to go the distance of two city blocks.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

How does the BMW's I6 score more points than the boxer4 in the Subie? The Subie sounds better, puts out way more grunt, and gets similar fuel economy. And understeer.... Are you talking about previous models or the 2012? Also, the STi could understeer to the moon and back in the time it takes the 328 to go the distance of two city blocks.

Agree with everything here, aside from fuel mileage. I'm actually debating swapping my M Coupe for an STI and have borrowed a friend's 2007 STI multiple times and have had one tank that averaged 7 mpg, and none better than 20 mpg. The STi ultimately does understeer while on the track, but in the city, with the diff bias set all the way to the back, it's much more likely to oversteer than a 328i, which could only power oversteer in the rain or ice.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Agree with everything here, aside from fuel mileage. I'm actually debating swapping my M Coupe for an STI and have borrowed a friend's 2007 STI multiple times and have had one tank that averaged 7 mpg, and none better than 20 mpg. The STi ultimately does understeer while on the track, but in the city, with the diff bias set all the way to the back, it's much more likely to oversteer than a 328i, which could only power oversteer in the rain or ice.

Well for 2012 they made some crucial changes to the suspension and what not, and reduces understeer. As far as fuel economy goes, if you beat on anything, even a Prius, you'll get shitty mileage. The EPA ratings are similar, and as close as we can get to a standardized comparison (although they sometimes do show error when compared to real world experience).

[Cdnrockies]

Originally Posted by mtla4

Depends. I have no interest for a 328 . I'd rather drive an Accord-Maxima over that car. But that's just me. So STI it is because I love performance cars and the STI is very practical. In fact it has more room then the 328.

+1

Originally Posted by TK-421

Nice unbiased rating system

328 = slow and boring. might as well be front wheel drive

+1

Hilarious thread.

The 328 is the type of lame ass, overpriced, underperforming pos that BMW sells a ridiculous amount of. It isn't true luxury, it isn't a true performer, and it carries zero panache/prestige.

But BMW sells tons of them because there are tons of sheep that will buy it just for the badge on the hood and know fuck all about cars....lol.

P.S. And yes...I have driven them as loaners and couldn't wait to give them back.

[cloakster]

Originally Posted by Cdnrockies

+1



+1

Hilarious thread.

The 328 is the type of lame ass, overpriced, underperforming pos that BMW sells a ridiculous amount of. It isn't true luxury, it isn't a true performer, and it carries zero panache/prestige.

But BMW sells tons of them because there are tons of sheep that will buy it just for the badge on the hood and know fuck all about cars....lol.

P.S. And yes...I have driven them as loaners and couldn't wait to give them back.

Not everyone's top priority is about how fast a car goes in a straight line. I love what you get with it for the price. Decent straight line performance from the awesome N52 engine, handles in the twisties beautifully, very nice looking coupe, good driver focused interior, good options available. If you don't want a performance only STI, the 328i is a great car.

[swaite]

I love this thread.

[CAPSGOD]

I actually think the 328i with the manual is a responsive if not thrilling car.. not too crazy about the automatic version

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by mtla4

The 328 is a fine machine but it's snoozeville for me. I'd get a civic si,mazdaspeed3,gti,mini cooper s,135I,wrx,sti,accord,tsx,altima v6,maxima,g37,accord v6,taurus SHO,Passat CC,Genesis coupe,Mustang,Camaro and many other vehicles over that car. Douche,snob,cocky who cares. I'm not a Bmw fan it's either top of the line or I look elsewhere.

Glad that you like your car,it's a good car. Honestly if my car does put a grin on my face when I take fast curves,accelerate quickly nor sound good I'll save some cash and get a regular car like TK-421 said . FWD is not a problem a that point.

It's the 335 in 2007 that got me back into a Bmw showroom. I did not bother in 2006 walking into a showroom to take a look at the new E90 325-330. By looking at the posters Drives: from this thread most are into performance(M6,335(I)(D),135,supercharged E46 M3, M3,Z4).I'm sure all these guys are more concerned with the fun to drive factor rather than a plush drive,well put interior,look etc.

That's funny because given the choice I would not select any of the cars you listed, and that's including the 135 or 335 over the 328. It's not that I'm stuck on BMW. Far from it. I've owned many brands and see their worth for what they are. It's simply my opinion (and many others, including Car and Driver) the 328 and some respects the 128 represents the core of what a sporty car should embody. It's very simple. Natural aspiration for linear power delivery. Straight six for smoothness and general auditory bliss. Rear drive for weight transfer when mashing the right pedal. Chassis that is balanced for predictable and controllable handling at the limit. It's not that difficult of a spec to match on paper. However Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Chevy, Ford, Hyundai, Honda, all have tried to duplicate it with only limited success. BMW has simply had more time to perfect the formula. All I'm saying is that the 3 series, particularly the 328 really represents an amazing value when you think about it.

There are hundreds of combinations you can take when you set out to design a sports car. Why is it time after time the M3 is chosen as the standard by which others are judged? Why do you think the M3 is FR and is not AWD? Why did they choose natural aspiration? Why did they not develop the M3 on a Mini Cooper chassis? They could have saved a ton of money. VW/AUDI does this very thing. Look at the TTRS it's on a golf chassis. Half of the cars you listed above were developed primarily as an economy car or family sedans. Including the STi which is an extreme example of one. Economy cars share an architecture that is hard to overcome. The FF drive, the passenger cabin pushed almost over the front axel, the ginormous trunks, the aerodynamics..etc. Sure, you can tune some of their inherent design out by changing the shocks, adding heavier springs and slapping on an Si badge, but at the end of the day what you really have is a warmed over econo-box.

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

How does the BMW's I6 score more points than the boxer4 in the Subie? The Subie sounds better, puts out way more grunt, and gets similar fuel economy. And understeer.... Are you talking about previous models or the 2012? Also, the STi could understeer to the moon and back in the time it takes the 328 to go the distance of two city blocks.

Take N52 and put a good race exhaust on it and it sounds like a race car, take a turbo boxer four and put a race exhaust on it and it sounds like a broken Hardley Davidson. I would also rather corner my 328 around two city blocks rather than understeer to the moon and back in a STi.

[TK-421]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

Take N52 and put a good race exhaust on it and it sounds like a race car, take a turbo boxer four and put a race exhaust on it and it sounds like a broken Hardley Davidson. I would also rather corner my 328 around two city blocks rather than understeer to the moon and back in a STi.

1. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/denial

2. this sounds more like a racer car than a "broken Harley Davidson"

[Inspired]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

Take N52 and put a good race exhaust on it and it sounds like a race car, take a turbo boxer four and put a race exhaust on it and it sounds like a broken Hardley Davidson. I would also rather corner my 328 around two city blocks rather than understeer to the moon and back in a STi.

I'm pretty sure any car enthusiast on this forum would prefer a aftermarket exhaust on a STI than on a 328.. What a joke..

Sorry, but your 328 got nothing on this..

[CAPSGOD]

Man this forum is pretty tense. I'm glad we don't have an Audi section or things could real ugly around here.

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by cloakster

Not everyone's top priority is about how fast a car goes in a straight line. I love what you get with it for the price. Decent straight line performance from the awesome N52 engine, handles in the twisties beautifully, very nice looking coupe, good driver focused interior, good options available. If you don't want a performance only STI, the 328i is a great car.

True, I was actually looking at a wagon for a bit, and due to BMW's lameness, the only option in the E91 is the N52. It's not a bad car, but it just doesn't excel in any area, and for that price, you would expect it to.... It's not great at luxury, options will push the price up pretty quickly, it's not blazingly quick.... Don't get me wrong, it's not incredibly low-rent, and is not slow by any means, but if you want lux for that price, there are much better options, and if you want sportiness for that price, there are many other options. It's a "Jack of all trades" of sorts.... Milquetoast. IMO of course.

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

I actually think the 328i with the manual is a responsive if not thrilling car.. not too crazy about the automatic version

I despise the auto in the 328 as well. The autos are much better these days, but the need to be in the desired gear is something that just makes a whole lot more difference in the 328 than it does in the 335 or a V8 car. It's my impression that the 328 is miles better with a manual, but again that's just my opinion.

Originally Posted by JIM E92

All I'm saying is that the 3 series, particularly the 328 really represents an amazing value when you think about it.

....

Why is it time after time the M3 is chosen as the standard by which others are judged? Why do you think the M3 is FR and is not AWD? Why did they choose natural aspiration?
....

I don't really see the value of the 328 these days. Value would imply that you're getting a lot for the money. With the 328, that's only true if you want to be "average" to "above average" in a few categories. I just don't see the value in that. Then again, it's different strokes for different folks. I'm kinda tired of breaking down on the side of the freeway every couple months, so I have actually considered a 328 because of that. It's "good enough" of a car for me, but honestly in that price bracket there are MANY other VERY GOOD options.

Also, the M3 isn't much of a standard anymore. It used to transcend the boundaries of its class, and it has slowly faded to only be a class comparator. I do agree with you about the NA engine "feel" though. Too bad it's going to a turbo setup. Even worse, it's going to a BMW turbo setup. Maybe in the future I'll run into an F32 M3 owner by the side of the road and we can wait for BMW Roadside to pick up both of our vehicles with failed fueling systems. It would be nice to have company while waiting.

Originally Posted by JIM E92

Take N52 and put a good race exhaust on it and it sounds like a race car, take a turbo boxer four and put a race exhaust on it and it sounds like a broken Hardley Davidson. I would also rather corner my 328 around two city blocks rather than understeer to the moon and back in a STi.

Dunno man. Of course this is all purely subjective, but the STi has a very good, intimidating tone to it. Generally, I've found people to appreciate it much more than the N52.

Originally Posted by CAPSGOD

Man this forum is pretty tense. I'm glad we don't have an Audi section or things could real ugly around here.

I'm pretty sure the Audiphiles would get regular infractions to keep everything as one-sided as possible. Oh wait, did that already happen?

[pschnei3]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I don't really see the value of the 328 these days. Value would imply that you're getting a lot for the money. With the 328, that's only true if you want to be "average" to "above average" in a few categories. I just don't see the value in that. Then again, it's different strokes for different folks. I'm kinda tired of breaking down on the side of the freeway every couple months, so I have actually considered a 328 because of that. It's "good enough" of a car for me, but honestly in that price bracket there are MANY other VERY GOOD options.

A

what would your other options be in this price point?

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Paul Douglas Schneider

what would your other options be in this price point?

Depends on what my focus was for the car. Usually when I get a car, it has a main purpose, either to be fun/fast, to have a certain practical attribute (e.g. a wagon to transport the dogs), maybe if I'm looking for a commuter I place higher values on the attributes of fuel economy and comfort.... It all depends, but I never seemed to really just want a car that was just decent at a lot of stuff. I understand that a lot of other people don't think that way, and there's a good reason why BMW successfully sells so many 328s, but that's just not how I work.

So, at that price point, we don't have to get into what would be the fun/fast focus (it's been beaten to death already in here, along with the Evo and of course the 5.0, among others). For a commuter, I'd take the Focus over the 328 and pocket the astronomical difference. And for the practicality of a wagon... well I hate to say it, but I've always been a sucker for the packaging of the Volvo estates.

[pschnei3]

he just wants a four door manual car. i had a 2006 325i 6speed and i really enjoyed it.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

328 and STI are totally different cars

Slow Luxury or Raw Power ECO Interior

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Paul Douglas Schneider

he just wants a four door manual car. i had a 2006 325i 6speed and i really enjoyed it.

Essentially, that's what it boils down to. No one can tell you which car you will like the best, and no one can tell your friend what he would like best. He has to figure out what his priorities are in choosing the car, and decide which one he likes better. That's going to require seat time on his part.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

That's funny because given the choice I would not select any of the cars you listed, and that's including the 135 or 335 over the 328. It's not that I'm stuck on BMW. Far from it. I've owned many brands and see their worth for what they are. It's simply my opinion (and many others, including Car and Driver) the 328 and some respects the 128 represents the core of what a sporty car should embody. It's very simple. Natural aspiration for linear power delivery. Straight six for smoothness and general auditory bliss. Rear drive for weight transfer when mashing the right pedal. Chassis that is balanced for predictable and controllable handling at the limit. It's not that difficult of a spec to match on paper. However Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Chevy, Ford, Hyundai, Honda, all have tried to duplicate it with only limited success. BMW has simply had more time to perfect the formula. All I'm saying is that the 3 series, particularly the 328 really represents an amazing value when you think about it.

There are hundreds of combinations you can take when you set out to design a sports car. Why is it time after time the M3 is chosen as the standard by which others are judged? Why do you think the M3 is FR and is not AWD? Why did they choose natural aspiration? Why did they not develop the M3 on a Mini Cooper chassis? They could have saved a ton of money. VW/AUDI does this very thing. Look at the TTRS it's on a golf chassis. Half of the cars you listed above were developed primarily as an economy car or family sedans. Including the STi which is an extreme example of one. Economy cars share an architecture that is hard to overcome. The FF drive, the passenger cabin pushed almost over the front axel, the ginormous trunks, the aerodynamics..etc. Sure, you can tune some of their inherent design out by changing the shocks, adding heavier springs and slapping on an Si badge, but at the end of the day what you really have is a warmed over econo-box.

I'm an F/I hater and love to slide out the tail from time to time. But what you are saying above is far from being the truth. Why? Porsche 911 turbo, audi r8, gallardo etc. It's a matter of preference is terms of AWD-RWD. Same goes for F/I over N/A. My friend bought a 997 turbo. If it was me I would have bought a GT3 or GT3 RS because it'S N/A and RWD. I wouldn't mind owning an r8.As for the m3 there are better cars out there nowadays.

As for the 328 there is nothing sporty about it comes with 16 inch wheels, lousy suspension. Even if there is a 17-18 inch package available it still has the same lousy suspension. Mind you my 135 had a lousy suspension(which was susposed to be some M-sport BS. Bmw marketing is doing a hell of a job.

My point is that it's all a matter of personal taste. I'd drive a Lotus Elise for 5er money. Mustang over 323-328. It's not about which is better or slamming other cars. Just like someone else said above I'd drive a Focus over a 328 and spare some cash.Some guys are willing to shell out 60-65K for a pick up truck while some would spend that on a sports car.

[JIM E92]

Originally Posted by mtla4

I'm an F/I hater and love to slide out the tail from time to time. But what you are saying above is far from being the truth. Why? Porsche 911 turbo, audi r8, gallardo etc. It's a matter of preference is terms of AWD-RWD. Same goes for F/I over N/A. My friend bought a 997 turbo. If it was me I would have bought a GT3 or GT3 RS because it'S N/A and RWD. I wouldn't mind owning an r8.As for the m3 there are better cars out there nowadays.

As for the 328 there is nothing sporty about it comes with 16 inch wheels, lousy suspension. Even if there is a 17-18 inch package available it still has the same lousy suspension. Mind you my 135 had a lousy suspension(which was susposed to be some M-sport BS. Bmw marketing is doing a hell of a job.

My point is that it's all a matter of personal taste. I'd drive a Lotus Elise for 5er money. Mustang over 323-328. It's not about which is better or slamming other cars. Just like someone else said above I'd drive a Focus over a 328 and spare some cash.Some guys are willing to shell out 60-65K for a pick up truck while some would spend that on a sports car.

You are preaching to the choir. It's all opinion. That's what the OP asked for. That's what I offered. People love to hate on the 328 esp the 335 drivers. It's a fools argument on this forum for sure.

[mtla4]

Originally Posted by JIM E92

You are preaching to the choir. It's all opinion. That's what the OP asked for. That's what I offered. People love to hate on the 328 esp the 335 drivers. It's a fools argument on this forum for sure.

I don't think that it's hate. It's just that love GTI but don't care for Golf. Used to own an RSX-S but did not care about the regular rsx. Love WRX-STI but dont care for regular impreza, same goes for the Mustang,Mazdaspeed3 etc. You have to understand that there is more guys that are worried about go,track days, performance then looks safety, smoothness on these boards.

The more I think about it this thread makes no sense these cars are so far apart.