08-16-2022, 02:29 PM | #89 |
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DM me what do you need.
Full speaker system or just the AMP? I assume that you are on HK?
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08-16-2022, 09:42 PM | #90 |
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Ok, so this might sound crazy, but after early disappointment with the HK and posting complaints about the insufficient bass response from the subs and how such an expensive car could have such a mediocre sound system, I think I have a change of heart. Maybe.
Originally, I agreed that switching off the Logic 7 Surround option was the first thing that you should do. It sounded so false to me. I then suggested pumping up the bass (specifically the 100Hz and 200Hz bands) in the graphic EQ and pumping up the Bass on the main Tone screen. That seemed to be the only way to get any semblance of subsonic thump. Like I said, I need to feel my music, not just hear it. But as time passed, those settings that seemed ok (barely) when tested in a garage became disagreeable in real life driving where there was just too much artificial bass boominess in the sound. It just gave me a headache and a resignation to install one of the recommended sub speaker options (Bavsound, Bimmertech, Audiotec-Fischer Match). Then, in a fit of final desperation, I tried tuning the settings one more time. My HK now sounds decent. Perhaps, more than decent. And it all started with switching ON the Logic 7 processor. Heresy, yes to some, but perhaps this algorithm actually does something useful and is not just marketing bull. Further, I suspect that the HK sound quality is unexpectedly impacted by the Speed Dependent Volume algorithm, and possibly by Active Sound Design. The former I can test but the latter is not fully defeatable unless I Bimmercode it off (which i will not be doing soon). I intend to do a bit more testing and then I will post my settings. As I said, crazy. Last edited by ikonn; 08-20-2022 at 08:26 PM.. |
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08-17-2022, 01:22 AM | #91 |
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r33_RGSport13123.50 |
08-17-2022, 01:33 AM | #92 |
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When you have it dialed in best you can, 0lease give us all the step by step,and settings…thanks
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08-17-2022, 04:31 PM | #93 | |
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I got customer from Denver drove down to me.
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08-17-2022, 09:05 PM | #94 | ||
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Can't speak for the Active Sound outside of at least with the B&W when I hit 40% plus it squelches it (all comes from the rear). At lower volumes then I hear it more pronounced but once again doesn't change the sound stage of the actual audio. |
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08-20-2022, 08:43 PM | #95 |
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Yah, maybe not adversely affecting the sound, but it does seem to have some sort of impact. My complaint has been not enough bass from the subs. This is still true with engine off, or engine on and not driving. But then I noticed that at around 40 mph / 65 kmh, the SDV kicks in and suddenly the subs sound better. You engineers out there can explain it, but my speculation is that the sub amps do not kick in until a certain signal level voltage hits them and you can get this either with high volume (or low freq EQ) levels or when the SDV triggers a sound boost.
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08-20-2022, 09:41 PM | #96 | |
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As an experiment start out at 50 and see if that changes the overall soundstage (which bass is a part of). That said on my outgoing Lexus it's SDV tried to kick in the equivalent of Logic 7. In my experience with the HK in my wife's 2017 X5 that is not a good thing but at least one forum member has called out better bass experience in an 8-series with HK and it's engagement |
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08-20-2022, 10:16 PM | #97 | |
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08-20-2022, 10:20 PM | #98 |
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I know it's only a dream but I feel the B&W system needs a sperate gain control on those under seat subs. That would be a big improvement but of course will never happen.
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08-21-2022, 09:39 PM | #99 | |
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I have no clue if any of this is right. But since my normal master volume is relatively low (20-30% of the horizontal volume graph?), it might make sense that SDV triggers the subs. Yes, I can test with different volumes and also with SDV low and high. |
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08-21-2022, 09:42 PM | #100 |
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08-21-2022, 09:45 PM | #101 | ||
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The next question is of course, what is the crossover frequency for the OEM subs. Last edited by ikonn; 08-21-2022 at 09:51 PM.. |
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08-22-2022, 06:57 AM | #102 |
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Well to be honest it's been so long since I did it you have me wondering now too. I'll check next time I'm in the car and I have a minute.
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08-22-2022, 07:04 AM | #103 | |
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That one fellow here built a box in the trunk. I bet he has an easy to get to gain control. |
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08-22-2022, 07:08 AM | #104 |
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There's some perceived truth to SDV and bass level from my experience anyway. I feel the bass is stronger at lower volumes and dies as you increase the volume (while the highs/mids continue to increase). I have a bug with SDV where on certain songs with strong, rhythmic bass, it will randomly start increasing volume and/or certain frequencies until you have to manually turn the volume down because it sounds garbled. Turning SDV all the way down alleviates or masks the issue. When the bug activates, the bass is super high and ironically shows what it's capable of.
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08-22-2022, 06:06 PM | #105 | |
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Either way on "flat" it doesn't appear to do a damn thing at least for me with the B&W system. I say that as when the wife's in the car like the recent road trip to the white mountains the volume never leaves the default setting (guessing 20% but definitely a Bimmercode option). Driving 85MPH on the freeway didn't increase the volume whatsoever (believe me if it did I would have gotten an earful and not from the sound system 😜. So perhaps there is more of a tie to HK than B&W but even in that case if you go full left aka minimum one would expect it to be either nearly if not fully defeated. |
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08-23-2022, 12:22 PM | #106 | |
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I checked the EQ and to your point their is no frequency assigned to the "bass" slider with the next one being 100Hz. So guessing it is at least 50Hz but that may depend on the crossover. The B&W specs claim the following: 1,400 watts of audio power, 10 fully active amplification channels, QuantumLogic Surround/Dynamic Sound Equalizing via measuring microphone and three analog crossover networks for consistent sound quality.However, I did find the following back in 2019 when doing the research and the URL is still live: https://s3.amazonaws.com/cms.ipressroom.com/214/files/20192/2019-03+BMW+8Series_Bowers+_+Wilkins.pdf The doc defines the subs as 8.5" using now legacy Rohacell construction (the 800 series moved on from that with the D1s) but easily handling down to 20Hz. Interestingly enough the Bavsound sub kit for the 8-series does not claim a driver size but does claim "Our woofers are 10 dB+ louder from 20Hz to 60Hz vs factory woofers". That louder claim equals they are more efficient than the HK's, i.e., more sound dBs per watt than the HK and guess their testing proves that. The million dollar question though is whether the HK system has 2 or 3 crossovers. If 2 that could be why one ends up with "boomy" bass at higher levels as one of the crossovers is driving all frequencies below X to both the mids and the subs. With 3 crossovers anything below 50Hz would only go to the subs. |
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07-21-2023, 06:09 PM | #107 |
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I really tried to like my Harman/Kardon system
Over the last 16 months I really tried to "like" my Harman/Hardon system. I felt like this is an 8 series, it should be a decent sound system. I couldn't get the B&W when I ordered my 2022 convertible so I just figured I'd live with it even though I knew it was lacking compared to other cars I've owned. The problem in one word was - distortion. A longer definition would be distortion and lack of bass.
Finally a couple of weeks ago I had enough. I had done a little research on BAVSOUND and Bimmertech speaker replacements and decided to pull the trigger. I got BimmerTech not because I thought they were better but because there BimmerTech installer was closer to my house than the BAVSOUND installer (but closer guy could have done either). And there's no real way to determine which is better unless you try them. So I'm two days in now. For those that say the HK speakers are fine, well maybe, but these replacement speakers are noticeably better. I was impressed by the reduction in distortion and the increase in pleasant sounding bass. I would do it again knowing what I know now. The only one remaining problem is I still have to crank the volume to about 75% to get listenable sound. That tells me maybe the amp is a little under powered. Neither Bavsound or Bimmertech has a replacement amp right now. I called Bimmertech customer service yesterday and the rep I spoke to said he thinks they have one coming out very soon. I should get confirmation on that next week. Even without the amp upgrade replacement the subs and other speakers was definitely worthwhile. I do have the bimmercode B&W DSP coding and like someone else said "Concert" seems to be the best of the bunch. If a replacement Bimmertech amp is available I think I will get it and hopefully that will put me on par sound wise with the original B&W I missed out on. Three questions for the group: 1) does anyone know the wattage of the stock HK system? 2) It seems like both BAVSOUND and Bimmertech may be on the verge of releasing amps for the G chasis BMW's. Has anyone done research on differences between BAVSOUND, Bimmertech, and Audio Fischer? 3) Does Audio Fischer have a plug & play unit today? Thanks everyone! Last edited by autobahnscott; 07-21-2023 at 06:10 PM.. Reason: typo |
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07-22-2023, 11:52 AM | #109 | |
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I believe the bimmertech amp is available already. It's the new alpha one and is $1699. |
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07-22-2023, 06:24 PM | #110 |
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Yes, looks like it's on the market now vs the original Alpha that did not support OABR so iD6 or less. Had to use a VIN off a 2023 M850i on cars.com as although in Bimmertech you can generally just state the year and model for the Alpha One audio it forces a VIN. Using my VIN it does indicate iD7 or greater but states not compatible due to the B&W. With the 2023 and stock HK it states fully compatible.
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