[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by Brake_Late

Why's that ?

A grand tourer (GT) is a car that is designed for high speed and long-distance driving, due to a combination of performance and luxury attributes. The most common format is a front-engine, rear-wheel-drive two-door coupé with either a two-seat or a 2+2 arrangement.

The term derives from the Italian language phrase gran turismo which became popular in the English language from the 1950s, evolving from fast touring cars and streamlined closed sports cars during the 1930s.

More about GT here:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_tourer

Well an 850i is a GT. But if you modify the suspension why would you want a 4 hour bumpy stiff back breaking ride? Everyone in this thread assumes big size and weight is bad. Weight is bad at a track because you go through brakes and tires faster.

I'll remind everyone here an M5 stops in 96 ft. A civic type R in 97ft and a Miata in 116ft. So the weight doesn't really affect braking distance in a modern car.

M5 and M8s compétition though is Ferrari and 911.

The big dimensions allows for more undercar aero and the result is the car is extremely stable and easy to drive compared to the Ferrari 488 and 911 which are lighter and smaller and more spin happy.

The competition has to try harder to have a perfect race where the BMW is the more stable at the limit. All the space is used to generate more downforce and the weight on the production car also helps with traction because on the M8 version it doesn't roll side to side like a boat, this is not true on the M850i or even an M240i.

All the downforce in a small car means different driving Styles at high and low speed. So a 911 driver needs to be very alert and ware of what he's doing as he transitions from say madness at Mid Ohio to the straight sections.

However the M8 has along wheel base and the result is it less sensitive to pitch and roll and the car brakes better than any car in its class. I don't mean stopping distance though it's worst at that, i mean you don't wobble or wrestle with the back tires.

The result is the M8 can use softer suspension set up and more natural driving technique can be employed making it easy to drive at the limit and easy to correct mistakes. Easy to drive in wet conditions. If you've driven a tiny M roadster for comparison you'll note the thing was stiff as hell. Because it had to be. The M8 and M5s large dimension inherently makes it more comfortable. Even the GTE version beats up the driver less than the Ferraris and Lambos.

By comparison A hurrican is much much more punishing of mistakes at the limit. Braking in a hurracan (my phone hates this word sorry) is easier to throw off balance at sudden inputs or lack of due diligence with the wheel.

The down side is of the size is weight and drag. The engine has Uber torque and reaches peak power at like 6000 rpms and the parry is over. The result is it slams to top speed fast and then hits the drag wall. Even the M850i seems to compete with the 9114S in a drag race which really is supposed to lined up with the M8 proper.

The result is the car is perfect at handling turns while also capable of hitting top speed early, way before the competition even if it fizzles out sooner. The long wheelbase means it needs extra care and time to reset after narrow turns and chicanes.

On a track like Nurburgring it's going to lose out to the 911 because of the big straight. It's got too much drag relative to the 911. But the rest of the way the M8 will be more confidence Inspiring and way less likely to have an accident. Yes, it would go faster if it weighed less but if you reduce the size you'll lose it's properties. It's got to be hard to get a car that mich bigger than a 911 down to 911 weight without cutting out the tech and comfort Feautures required in the segment.

You can hopefully why this car and it's predecessor the M6 were able to win Spa and Daytona. It nabbed 4th and 5th at midohio partly because of of a Ferrari spin. The 911 as well in the GT3 spun. BMW also does well in extreme conditions due to the ease of driving.

This is reflected in auto journalist stuff as well where the M5 frequently performs equal to 911s that have similar numbers but have way less weight. The car is easier to drive than a 911 so when you are out driving them for a few hours it's easier to put a good lap time up with the M5 than with the lighter 911.

If you're buying a 500 hp car to go track with the M5/8 would be a great choice because it's the easiest to drive well where 911 has a tendance to spin around trying to put its motor in the front where it belongs.

If you're wanting to go for a long ride an M8 with adaptive suspension obviously will be nice enough but I promise you the 850i will be more comfortable because BMW designs the suspension geometry with touring and light sporty driving in mind.

Anyone saying a n M235i is more agile than an M8 is being silly and it's all a placebo. An M5 will skidpad much better than a 235i die to suspension set up.

Anyway, that's probably more info than anyone wanted but hopefully we can get people to understand that there's much more to GT vs SportsCar than weight and size.

By posting a 7:30 or under in the M8 BMW have shown a masterpiece of engineering off. Hopefully my post explains why. Remember the BMW M8 competes with the 911 S or Z06 in terms of design philosophy. An M8 Competition or CSL is really for GT3 or ZR1.

he uninitiated assumes the M5/6/8 are too big to be track cars but they are very wrong. BMW made excellent track performers worthy of consideration for a 911, lambo, or Ferrari shopper. The big can be just as good as the small it just has different strengths and weaknesses. (And costs more because you'll use up brakes and tires!)