[Big boi m5]

Originally Posted by JL95

Interesting approach there. Do you know any other 4200 lbs modern day sports car that we're not aware of By definition sports cars should be nimble and handle well, neither can be achieved with that weight penalty.

Lifelong bmw fan here but let's be real for a second, bmw doesn't make any sports cars period. ///M cars are either based on sedan or GT chassis. There's a difference between a very good sporty car vs pure bred sports car.

At best M8 or in this case m850i is a very nice fast luxury GT.

I respectfully disagree. Light weight is always going to be faster, this is true.

The M8 was designed from the ground up to win Le Mans. It costs 500million minimum to develop a GTE car and race it at Le Mans, so it's not like BMW didn't take it seriously.

ACO defines their race cars as 2 doors, production of 1 per week minimum, a suitcase size storage, 2 doors, 2 seats or 2+2.

Obviously the actual race car doesn't have a stereo or crystal shifting knob, or any of the 'luxury' of the Gentleman's racer. It weighs 2800 lbs. throw in safety and comfort crap and you'll find the extra 1000 lbs.

PW ratio: 5.6. The car is lowered compared to the M8 so it turns better but an M8 has to drive over city roads and the GT version does not.

It looks like the M8 if it's truly based on the M5 will have a 6.8 power to weight. They added more power to make up for the extra weight. However if the M8 is like the M6 it may end up weighing a few hundred less than the M5 and have a 6.1ish.

Meanwhile the 'lightweight' 'sports cars' of today: Miata is 12.7, BRZ: 15.5. Under 3k lbs. and the M5 stops in 97 ft. The Miata? 112 ft. Light weight Civic type R? 98 ft.

The size too is irrelevant. The bigger M cars allow for bigger aero dynamics even though drag is higher. The result is these big cars are super stable regarding pitch and roll especially when you brake and accelerate. Yeah, the big engines usually give a bit of understeer, but overall at the limit, for a high power car, you'll find it very very stable and intuitive to drive, the opposite of a 911.

If you overcook a turn in an M5 a slight lift of the gas or flick of the brake corrects, good luck in a light weight small car. Yeah light weight cars can change direction better faster. Yeah these cars hit a wall at high speed due to drag of their big size.

But the reality is on a track the M6 won spa and the M8 won Daytona because they're very stable and very easy to drive. Drama free at the limit. A corvette Z06 with 505 hp and 800 less lbs is a very wild beast and hard to tame.

The weight is a result of the V8/V10 if you count the older M5. It's also a result of the big wide chassis. But this isn't 1985 and the choices were made both because leaders want cabin space and because the Big M cars really are amazing chassis and the strengths can and have out weighed the weaknesses in race conditions.

If you took a 911 turbo 'the fastest' on paper and compared it to the 911 GT3 you'll find out what a GT actually means.

GT is set up for high speed long distance driving. Comfort at 100 mph. The turbo has soft suspension so it can hit a bump or pothole. If you did this in an M8 or 911 GT3 you'd break your trim.

I realIze with modern suspension you can push a button and you'll get a softer ride so an M5 can be happy on the autobahn and the Turbo will be happy on a track.

If you get in an i8 and try to track it though you'll realize it has the main GT car issue. It steers like a boat. All the weight goes to one side: you lose traction and speed. Same with the turbo. An M5 May have 2000 extra lbs over a Miata but it doesn't matter if the weight stays on the inside tires during a turn.

Another sort of easy look at GT vs Sportcar is the e89. Soft suspension despite being way smaller than the M6. If you redo the springs for tracking you'll find you're left with the flaws of the small but powerful cars of being difficult to manage.

The other thing is light cars have small engines and those engines also hit a drag wall pretty early. The M8 hits a drag wall well before its competition like the 488 and 911 but way after the light weight cars people think are proper sports cars.

Anyway rant over. You want a light weight car fine and great, but I love the ease and refinement of tracking a big boi. Just don't insult these cars when they are truly fast and amazing sportscars with a lot of thought put in to them including size. They have drag and braking weakness compared to 911 and 488 but they can make up for it with strengths that come from size too.

I suppose if your just racing on some on ramps or neighborhoods or whatever you might not appreciate the big M cars dynamics